[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Just over a year ago this thread started by asking a number of questions.

In part I believe they've been answered: the DS was strongly linked to CFC, the Club did subsidise it on a number of levels and there was a massive conflict of interests for the then CEO.

I think it's fair to say that's why he resigned. I think it's fair to say that's why CFC's account has been addressed. I think it's fair to say that's why the Club finally divorced itself from the DS.

The one huge question that remains unanswered, though, is why it took so long for action to be taken.

I'll say it again: well done Ashley Carson for finally dealing with what even he described as the disaster over the road. However as 'Freelander 2' - someone who deserves all our gratitude for his professional and tenacious pursuit of these issues - quite rightly pointed out it took Town four and a half years to dump Sutcliffe in a way it took the guy at Rotherham only six months. And make no mistake; AC was pushed every inch of the way.

In between the Club's reputation has taken a real hammering. Meanwhile we'll only find out who's taken a financial hit when the liquidators publish their report. Which could include a great many small businesses who'll suffer genuine problems as a result. Then we can only guess to what degree Bingham's involvement might've extended but for being exposed on here.

I'd like to think Sutcliffe will be getting his collar felt in the very near future. I'm pretty sure taking money for trips that were never even booked constitutes fraud whilst the same may apply if he continued obtaining credit in the knowledge he'd fold his business.

Of course the missing person in all this is the bloke who first embraced Sutcliffe - Chris Turner. I think it's scandalous that he wasn't at the AGM to not only explain his involvement, but account for repeatedly denying links between CFC and the DS. In my view his absence was a cynical and cowardly act. Just as in my view moving him to DoF is merely changing the sign on his office door, a cosmetic exercise to placate the punters.

If there's one major positive from this whole disgusting episode it's that Chesterfield supporters have shown they're scrutinising events. I doubt very much that Turner will be the same magnet for >ahem< 'undesirable characters' he's previously been, similarly those with a 'what's in it for me' attitude might now look elsewhere.

Hopefully this thread will slowly fall from the messageboard never to be visited again. Unfortunately the last twelve or so months suggest that won't be the case.

This post has been edited by MDCCCLXVI: 06 February 2017 - 10:29 PM

[moondog]

Alan Biggs Apologies on Twitter



Don't like being lied to - especially about my club. Re Liam Sutcliffe's "performance" on my show. Sincerely sorry it happened. #Spireites

[Benno Spire]

 moondog, on 06 February 2017 - 10:33 PM, said:

Alan Biggs Apologies on Twitter



Don't like being lied to - especially about my club. Re Liam Sutcliffe's "performance" on my show. Sincerely sorry it happened. #Spireites

Fair play on a public apology but he has only done it now after an announcement by CFC

[Guest_freelander2_*]

 MDCCCLXVI, on 06 February 2017 - 10:27 PM, said:

Just over a year ago this thread started by asking a number of questions.

In part I believe they've been answered: the DS was strongly linked to CFC, the Club did subsidise it on a number of levels and there was a massive conflict of interests for the then CEO.

I think it's fair to say that's why he resigned. I think it's fair to say that's why CFC's account has been addressed. I think it's fair to say that's why the Club finally divorced itself from the DS.

The one huge question that remains unanswered, though, is why it took so long for action to be taken.

I'll say it again: well done Ashley Carson for finally dealing with what even he described as the disaster over the road. However as 'Freelander 2' - someone who deserves all our gratitude for his professional and tenacious pursuit of these issues - quite rightly pointed out it took Town four and a half years to dump Sutcliffe in a way it took the guy at Rotherham only six months. And make no mistake; AC was pushed every inch of the way.

In between the Club's reputation has taken a real hammering. Meanwhile we'll only find out who's taken a financial hit when the liquidators publish their report. Which could include a great many small businesses who'll suffer genuine problems as a result. Then we can only guess to what degree Bingham's involvement might've extended but for being exposed on here.

I'd like to think Sutcliffe will be getting his collar felt in the very near future. I'm pretty sure taking money for trips that were never even booked constitutes fraud whilst the same may apply if he continued obtaining credit in the knowledge he'd fold his business.

Of course the missing person in all this is the bloke who first embraced Sutcliffe - Chris Turner. I think it's scandalous that he wasn't at the AGM to not only explain his involvement, but account for repeatedly denying links between CFC and the DS. In my view his absence was a cynical and cowardly act. Just as in my view moving him to DoF is merely changing the sign on his office door, a cosmetic exercise to placate the punters.

If there's one major positive from this whole disgusting episode it's that Chesterfield supporters have shown they're scrutinising events. I doubt very much that Turner will be the same magnet for >ahem< 'undesirable characters' he's previously been, similarly those with a 'what's in it for me' attitude might now look elsewhere.

Hopefully this thread will slowly fall from the messageboard never to be visited again. Unfortunately the last twelve or so months suggest that won't be the case.

Under no circumstances will I be excusing or defending Liam Sutcliffe's conduct, but for those who have been involved in this mess, ex staff and supporters, we know he's only part of the issue here. The longer this went on, it became less about him and more about the senior decision makers currently involved with our club.

This post has been edited by freelander2: 06 February 2017 - 10:40 PM

[moondog]

 Benno Spire, on 06 February 2017 - 10:36 PM, said:

Fair play on a public apology but he has only done it now after an announcement by CFC

I've asked him who asked that he appear on his show, as a fellow Spireite he ought to tell us.

Also he shouldn't just apologise for giving Sutcliffe a platform but also for his derogatory comments about the critical fans

[spireitenag]

<p>
I've already had confirmation in the last 30 minutes that scholars/parents are still owed money.

In the case of one the quoted figure is £1,300.
</p><p>Another £1,000,another £800 just been communicated to me.</p>

This post has been edited by spireitenag: 06 February 2017 - 10:51 PM

[Guest_freelander2_*]

If you're reading this Liam, you will remember that 6 months ago I did warn you that this day would come.

You will also remember that I informed you of specific allegations which I and other supporters had been made aware of. Without disclosing the details. I also acknowledged that I failed to see how some of the allegations were benefitting you, Chris Turner and your business.

What an absolute cluster-f' up.

 moondog, on 06 February 2017 - 10:45 PM, said:

I've asked him who asked that he appear on his show, as a fellow Spireite he ought to tell us.

Also he shouldn't just apologise for giving Sutcliffe a platform but also for his derogatory comments about the critical fans

It's clear to me mate, someone at CFC thought they were being clever pushing him out in front of the camera.

[moondog]

 spireitenag, on 06 February 2017 - 10:47 PM, said:

I've already had confirmation in the last 30 minutes that scholars/parents are still owed money.

In the case of one the quoted figure is £1,300.

A fellow fan approached me in the pub before the match on Saturday to tell me that his mate a parent was owed £900

[moondog]

 freelander2, on 06 February 2017 - 10:49 PM, said:

It's clear to me mate, someone at CFC thought they were being clever pushing him out in front of the camera.

A bit like this statement

http://mobile.cheste...nt-3123049.aspx

[spireitenag]

 moondog, on 06 February 2017 - 10:52 PM, said:

A fellow fan approached me in the pub before the match on Saturday to tell me that his mate a parent was owed £900

Which beggars the question where has the £55k loans from AC and CT gone.

Or am I being really naïve ?

All these parents/scholars should really be getting together and pursue their claims through the appropriate legal channels while he has still got some cash.

[Guest_freelander2_*]

 dim view, on 05 February 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

It seems to me probable that the DC appeared as a debtor in every set of monthly accounts since Sutcliffe rode into Chesterfield. Yet Chris Turner, Ashley Carson, John Croot, Chris Breeze have all to my knowledge denied the fact.

Dave,

We discussed this tonight and I don't believe the monthly management accounts would contain a full debtor list, therefore it's probable that JC & CB were unaware.

[moondog]

Whilst we've got a statement to say Sutcliffe has left, the rest of the press release is meaningless waffle with no mention that they have placed one of the businesess into administration. AC estimated tonight owing £125k.

If they really cared about the community of Chesterfield they would at least provide a contact point for those owed money,

The business hasn't got a chance of succeeding with the football club as a partner as the fans won't back it unless those individuals defrauded, who weren't part of the venture, receive their money back.

[spireitenag]

 moondog, on 06 February 2017 - 11:16 PM, said:

Whilst we've got a statement to say Sutcliffe has left, the rest of the press release is meaningless waffle with no mention that the one of the businesess has been placed into administration. AC estimated tonight owing £125k

So basically he's paid nothing whatsoever.

Guess what AC & CT he's had it away with your dosh as well !

[dalekpete]

 dim view, on 06 February 2017 - 09:24 AM, said:

Turner and Croot also run the Hub. The Hub's financial arrangements and transactions with CFC have effectively gone unquestioned leading up to the AGM because of chaos elsewhere and I think there is a smokescreen. Perhaps a knowledgeable shareholder could shed some light on this. An audit by Shorts like the one just released on here should be demanded in relation to the Hub (and probably every other trading/income stream).

David, you know that Chris has only a Trustee role with the Trust and I am not sure he has attended the last couple of Board meetings (and he missed our AGM). Please come and see me in my role as Governance Officer and I will show you all of our Board minutes and our management accounts. You have been to see me before so know that as a charity we are as open as possible. The management accounts are also supplied to the Charity Bank that recently supported our financial restructure. This of course also meant a new debt subordination agreement between the Trust, Club, Charity Bank and Football Foundation that supported our financial independence.

[meowdmucker]

 moondog, on 06 February 2017 - 10:55 PM, said:

A bit like this statement

http://mobile.cheste...nt-3123049.aspx

Instead of a result prediction league, Bobs Board could do a club lie prediction league? ......certainly been more of them than goals this last year and they seem easier to predict it appears!

[dim view]

 dalekpete, on 07 February 2017 - 12:16 AM, said:

David, you know that Chris has only a Trustee role with the Trust and I am not sure he has attended the last couple of Board meetings (and he missed our AGM). Please come and see me in my role as Governance Officer and I will show you all of our Board minutes and our management accounts. You have been to see me before so know that as a charity we are as open as possible. The management accounts are also supplied to the Charity Bank that recently supported our financial restructure. This of course also meant a new debt subordination agreement between the Trust, Club, Charity Bank and Football Foundation that supported our financial independence.

Thanks Pete
If you say everything is sound, it's sound.

The background to my post was that :-
In response to a direct question from me designed to pressurise Turner, John Croot told the Fans' Forum that the DC had never been listed as a Debtor in CFC Accounts. I happen to know that he knew it had and I think he now knows my source. In response to a question last night from Freelander, Howard the Auditor quoted more than 1 example of accounts entries showing the DC as a debtor. I don't accept that JC could have been unaware of detail. He's a Director.

Carson expects us to accept that Turner was blissfully unaware of the scandals at the DC.

In light of those facts, I don't think it's unreasonable to query whether the partnership between CFC and the Hub is being run properly. As a postscript, I had a nice chat to Phil T last night. He confirmed that in his opinion the Hub is being run properly and is financially sound.

[dim view]

 MDCCCLXVI, on 06 February 2017 - 10:27 PM, said:

In between the Club's reputation has taken a real hammering. Meanwhile we'll only find out who's taken a financial hit when the liquidators publish their report.

Of course the missing person in all this is the bloke who first embraced Sutcliffe - Chris Turner. I think it's scandalous that he wasn't at the AGM to not only explain his involvement, but account for repeatedly denying links between CFC and the DS. In my view his absence was a cynical and cowardly act.

Hopefully this thread will slowly fall from the messageboard never to be visited again. Unfortunately the last twelve or so months suggest that won't be the case.

Unless I misheard, Carson suggested last night that the total DC debt might be £300k. I think it's a minor miracle that CFC Accounts indicate that none of that is owed to CFC. In fact, it's magic.

I regret that last night we were not given an opportunity to ask Carson the simple question....'Ashley after all this research you've done, do you think Turner knew about the escalating scandal?'

[Mrhappy]

 dim view, on 07 February 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

Unless I misheard, Carson suggested last night that the total DC debt might be £300k. I think it's a minor miracle that CFC Accounts indicate that none of that is owed to CFC. In fact, it's magic.

I regret that last night we were not given an opportunity to ask Carson the simple question....'Ashley after all this research you've done, do you think Turner knew about the escalating scandal?'

I find it very hard to believe Turner didn't know.........he was the man that brought Sutcliffe in after all.

[DIFH]

 Mrhappy, on 07 February 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

I find it very hard to believe Turner didn't know.........he was the man that brought Sutcliffe in after all.

Ouch !

[For your eyes only]

 Mrhappy, on 07 February 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

I find it very hard to believe Turner didn't know.........he was the man that brought Sutcliffe in after all.

He knew in 2015.