[Lincs Spireite]

Phil V 72, on 27 November 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I follow the connection. It's like saying 'the owner of the local chippy produces terrible food, but he's put a lot of time and money into it so we'd better keep buying the stuff until he gets it right'

DA is a 'seller' - he has a product he wants people to buy. The fans are 'buyers', they expect a return for the money they are shelling out. Considerable sums, as it happens - match days are not cheap for 2/3 people going in a family group, for example.

It is encumbant on the club to turn out a product that justifies the ticket prices, irrespective of results. Everyone accepts that we won't play well every game, and there will be periods of poor form. However, steady progress, good signings and at least periods of good football are surely a pre-requisite, even if the results don't go our way.

Appointing an unpopular manager and the, quite frankly, startling regression on the pitch is not a good way to get more supporters through the gates. I fully support anyone who wishes to withdraw support, just as I fully support anyone who wishes to continue to attend.

At last the voice of logic and reason. Mirrors my view exactly.

[Phil V 72]

Spire-Power, on 27 November 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

Folk do what they want of course, they can make a passive protest by staying away from home matches but there's nothing to stop them making their feelings known vocally, such as a Saunders Out chant, a demo in the car park or a banner (if they are allowed into the stadium). Nobody complained at the agm, clearly a lot of sabre rattling from behind a keyboard, but nothing in yer face so to speak. As for me, looking forward to the game tomorrow in good company with drinks before the game, Bud and steak pie at HT, drinks after the game and maybe a moan, there's always something to talk about. It's a social event which I enjoy. Even if the match is a write off it's not the only reason I go and I'll be back for more of the same.

I think this is the bit that I struggle with - I have to make a value choice between paying out nearly £50 for 3 tickets for doing something that splits the family apart (2/5 of the family don't like footy) and I need to feel that cost is justified. At the moment, I don't

Glad you enjoy it, and pleased you get something from the experience.

If as you say, there isn't open dissent then either

1) everyone's happy and we'll still get 4.5K season tickets next year, or
2) a percentage of people will drift away quietly and it will be a total surprise to the club next summer

I'm not a negative person by nature, but I have to take a pragmatic view - I have a life beyond the club, time is a premium and they've done nothing to entice me through those gates in the last 6 months.

[Snowflake McBedwetter]

azul, on 27 November 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

Please accept my humble apologies. This use of this term has clearly upset you.

Try walking into random boozers and calling strangers 'dickless wonders'. I suppose after two or three you'd be short of a few teeth.

But you wouldn't do that would you.

[Guest_freelander2_*]

Phil V 72, on 27 November 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I follow the connection. It's like saying 'the owner of the local chippy produces terrible food, but he's put a lot of time and money into it so we'd better keep buying the stuff until he gets it right'

DA is a 'seller' - he has a product he wants people to buy. The fans are 'buyers', they expect a return for the money they are shelling out. Considerable sums, as it happens - match days are not cheap for 2/3 people going in a family group, for example.

It is encumbant on the club to turn out a product that justifies the ticket prices, irrespective of results. Everyone accepts that we won't play well every game, and there will be periods of poor form. However, steady progress, good signings and at least periods of good football are surely a pre-requisite, even if the results don't go our way.

Appointing an unpopular manager and the, quite frankly, startling regression on the pitch is not a good way to get more supporters through the gates. I fully support anyone who wishes to withdraw support, just as I fully support anyone who wishes to continue to attend.

Good post.

[Spire-Power]

Phil V 72, on 27 November 2015 - 02:23 PM, said:

I think this is the bit that I struggle with - I have to make a value choice between paying out nearly £50 for 3 tickets for doing something that splits the family apart (2/5 of the family don't like footy) and I need to feel that cost is justified. At the moment, I don't

Glad you enjoy it, and pleased you get something from the experience.

If as you say, there isn't open dissent then either

1) everyone's happy and we'll still get 4.5K season tickets next year, or
2) a percentage of people will drift away quietly and it will be a total surprise to the club next summer

I'm not a negative person by nature, but I have to take a pragmatic view - I have a life beyond the club, time is a premium and they've done nothing to entice me through those gates in the last 6 months.

Everyone has their own circumstances and can make their own decisions. We have gained fans over the last few years and it's natural that we will lose fans when the football deteriorates, especially at home matches. I'm not happy in general what I have seen this season but I will be content with an unspectacular survival in L1 as L1 is the level this club should be playing at. Hopefully we will stay up and kick on in L1 next season or the one after.

[spireitewolf]

Middle East said:

1448612507[/url]' post='1163748']
10 of us season ticket holders have also decided to vote with our feet and won't be taking our seats either!

We will be sat in the corporate hospitality wineing and dining instead. They might be c.r.a.p at the minute but I'm with you they are my team and I will support them whatever!

PS: Looking forward to seeing Walton in there too! Apparently he really loves a good wine....

It's a one off cheap job It's one way of selling out lol In old legends lounge (spire restaurant) would you pay 125 quid a month normally to watch that cxxp regularly lol

[Goku]

Spire-Power, on 27 November 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

Folk do what they want of course, they can make a passive protest by staying away from home matches but there's nothing to stop them making their feelings known vocally, such as a Saunders Out chant, a demo in the car park or a banner (if they are allowed into the stadium). Nobody complained at the agm, clearly a lot of sabre rattling from behind a keyboard, but nothing in yer face so to speak. As for me, looking forward to the game tomorrow in good company with drinks before the game, Bud and steak pie at HT, drinks after the game and maybe a moan, there's always something to talk about. It's a social event which I enjoy. Even if the match is a write off it's not the only reason I go and I'll be back for more of the same.

Is there even a point of showing discontent at the AGM? Considering it's pretty obvious Allen would laugh any criticism off (or more likely start talking about how much money he's put in etc.) - it's a lose-lose situation should you complain (imo).

[Phil V 72]

Spire-Power, on 27 November 2015 - 02:35 PM, said:

Everyone has their own circumstances and can make their own decisions. We have gained fans over the last few years and it's natural that we will lose fans when the football deteriorates, especially at home matches. I'm not happy in general what I have seen this season but I will be content with an unspectacular survival in L1 as L1 is the level this club should be playing at. Hopefully we will stay up and kick on in L1 next season or the one after.

I'd snap your hands off for unspectacular survival at the moment, my worry is that we're not even close to being that good.

[Spire-Power]

Goku, on 27 November 2015 - 02:59 PM, said:

Is there even a point of showing discontent at the AGM? Considering it's pretty obvious Allen would laugh any criticism off (or more likely start talking about how much money he's put in etc.) - it's a lose-lose situation should you complain (imo).

If people felt strongly they should have made their point at the agm regardless of DA's or DS's response. They should have at least aired their grievances, it was the perfect platform for them to "engage" with the boss man. For those not at the agm there are other ways of making their protests loud and clear and visible.

[Spire-Power]

Phil V 72, on 27 November 2015 - 03:19 PM, said:

I'd snap your hands off for unspectacular survival at the moment, my worry is that we're not even close to being that good.

Well I did say hopefully

I see your point about a family group, maybe you're not even getting a few pints for false optimism before the game or to drown your sorrows after!
Don't know how old your kids are but for young uns STs in the family stand are cheap, though I appreciate not everyone can afford to fork out for STs. And a fair few are probably now wishing they hadn't!

[Middle East]

spireitewolf, on 27 November 2015 - 02:37 PM, said:

It's a one off cheap job It's one way of selling out lol In old legends lounge (spire restaurant) would you pay 125 quid a month normally to watch that cxxp regularly lol

No (random lol) but I have a ST always have done always will do however cxxp they are and I've seen plenty over the years. (Another random lol)

I would also have paid £13 to see the cup game from my usual spot if the 'one off cheap job' wasn't on....so I don't really get what point you're trying to make? (Final random lol)

This post has been edited by Middle East: 27 November 2015 - 03:53 PM

[newboldsteve]

Phil V 72, on 27 November 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I follow the connection. It's like saying 'the owner of the local chippy produces terrible food, but he's put a lot of time and money into it so we'd better keep buying the stuff until he gets it right'

DA is a 'seller' - he has a product he wants people to buy. The fans are 'buyers', they expect a return for the money they are shelling out. Considerable sums, as it happens - match days are not cheap for 2/3 people going in a family group, for example.

It is encumbant on the club to turn out a product that justifies the ticket prices, irrespective of results. Everyone accepts that we won't play well every game, and there will be periods of poor form. However, steady progress, good signings and at least periods of good football are surely a pre-requisite, even if the results don't go our way.

Appointing an unpopular manager and the, quite frankly, startling regression on the pitch is not a good way to get more supporters through the gates. I fully support anyone who wishes to withdraw support, just as I fully support anyone who wishes to continue to attend.

lol that the biggest load of crap you by a chippy to make money if the foods crap you don't go and the place shuts is that what your aiming for . footballs nothing like that, the teams going through a transitional period new manager come in and it takes time to gel to stamp his way in to the players so to speak . look at the end of the day we all suffer if people don't go because there will be a smaller budget next season p.s i'm not happy with the rubbish were are watching but I'm not going to cut my nose off to spite my face

[Walton Spireite]

Middle East, on 27 November 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

10 of us season ticket holders have also decided to vote with our feet and won't be taking our seats either!

We will be sat in the corporate hospitality wineing and dining instead. They might be c.r.a.p at the minute but I'm with you they are my team and I will support them whatever!

PS: Looking forward to seeing Walton in there too! Apparently he really loves a good wine....

Yes I like a good wine!!

[azul]

Phil V 72, on 27 November 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

I'm sorry, I'm not sure I follow the connection. It's like saying 'the owner of the local chippy produces terrible food, but he's put a lot of time and money into it so we'd better keep buying the stuff until he gets it right'

DA is a 'seller' - he has a product he wants people to buy. The fans are 'buyers', they expect a return for the money they are shelling out. Considerable sums, as it happens - match days are not cheap for 2/3 people going in a family group, for example.

It is encumbant on the club to turn out a product that justifies the ticket prices, irrespective of results. Everyone accepts that we won't play well every game, and there will be periods of poor form. However, steady progress, good signings and at least periods of good football are surely a pre-requisite, even if the results don't go our way.

Appointing an unpopular manager and the, quite frankly, startling regression on the pitch is not a good way to get more supporters through the gates. I fully support anyone who wishes to withdraw support, just as I fully support anyone who wishes to continue to attend.

I think there is a slight flaw in your first paragraph comparing a chip shop to football club. You don't tend to be a life long supporter of a chip shop, whereas you tend be a life long supporter of a football club.

Putting aside personal feelings about DA/CT/DS, they'll not be here for ever, far from it. if you withdraw your support from a chippy and it closes, you walk round the corner to next one. try that with a football club.

[Phil V 72]

newboldsteve, on 27 November 2015 - 04:09 PM, said:

lol that the biggest load of crap you by a chippy to make money if the foods crap you don't go and the place shuts is that what your aiming for . footballs nothing like that, the teams going through a transitional period new manager come in and it takes time to gel to stamp his way in to the players so to speak . look at the end of the day we all suffer if people don't go because there will be a smaller budget next season p.s i'm not happy with the rubbish were are watching but I'm not going to cut my nose off to spite my face

I've never understood why football has a special status whereby they are immune to the basis rules of economics. Maybe if they were more realistic there would be fewer running into difficulties.
I'd prefer Saunders to have a smaller budget, his signings don't inspire confidence.
I agree we're in transition but it's what we're transitioning into that worries me.
As for you brave souls watching regularly - 'doing the same things over and over again but expecting different results is the definition of madness' - probably sums up the average supporter

[Phil V 72]

azul, on 27 November 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

I think there is a slight flaw in your first paragraph comparing a chip shop to football club. You don't tend to be a life long supporter of a chip shop, whereas you tend be a life long supporter of a football club.

Putting aside personal feelings about DA/CT/DS, they'll not be here for ever, far from it. if you withdraw your support from a chippy and it closes, you walk round the corner to next one. try that with a football club.

I have no personal feelings about the unholy trinity I don't know them personally, I judge them on deed and results.

In the last 6 months, I've fallen a little bit out of love with my football club. If that throws me into the arms of Staveley MW, so be it


Oh, and i might not be in love with my local chippy, but the local Chinese? Well, that's a different matter.....

This post has been edited by Phil V 72: 27 November 2015 - 04:31 PM

[Snowflake McBedwetter]

Phil V 72, on 27 November 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

I've never understood why football has a special status whereby they are immune to the basis rules of economics. Maybe if they were more realistic there would be fewer running into difficulties.
I'd prefer Saunders to have a smaller budget, his signings don't inspire confidence.
I agree we're in transition but it's what we're transitioning into that worries me.
As for you brave souls watching regularly - 'doing the same things over and over again but expecting different results is the definition of madness' - probably sums up the average supporter

I suppose you could say that the reason chairmen feel that they can treat the club as a business, but criticise those supporters who choose to do the same is because they have an army of unquestioning drones who will part with their money without a whimper.

I've never called for a managers sacking at town. But this is the first one who's been given decent tools to do the job and who has made a total pigs ear of it.

[azul]

Phil V 72, on 27 November 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

I have no personal feelings about the unholy trinity I don't know them personally, I judge them on deed and results.

In the last 6 months, I've fallen a little bit out of love with my football club. If that throws me into the arms of Staveley MW, so be it


Oh, and i might not be in love with my local chippy, but the local Chinese? Well, that's a different matter.....

What happens when they get mismanaged and/or have a slump in form?

[Snowflake McBedwetter]

azul, on 27 November 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

What happens when they get mismanaged and/or have a slump in form?

Load up on prawn crackers?

[Phil V 72]

azul, on 27 November 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

What happens when they get mismanaged and/or have a slump in form?

There are other benefits - they have a nice clubhouse with beer, chips and Sky TV, and the boy gets in for free as he plays for U12s.