[martatcross]

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on 24 October 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

Perhaps rather than keep saying we want more through the gate, they should actually make people pay what they should be paying and cut out all the fiddles they are aware of e.g people paying pensioner rates when they aren't pensioners, adults going in on juvenile tickets, disabled ticket fiddles etc. What stops somebody buying a kids ticket and just scanning it and going in? Nothing

very common at all clubs I know People who have done it for years at a little club up the A61. I often ask why they wish to rip the club off?

This post has been edited by martatcross: 24 October 2014 - 03:57 PM

[azul]

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on 24 October 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

Perhaps rather than keep saying we want more through the gate, they should actually make people pay what they should be paying and cut out all the fiddles they are aware of e.g people paying pensioner rates when they aren't pensioners, adults going in on juvenile tickets, disabled ticket fiddles etc. What stops somebody buying a kids ticket and just scanning it and going in? Nothing

Do you know this is happening on a significant level? Is it just hearsay?

[Mr Mercury]

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on 24 October 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

Perhaps rather than keep saying we want more through the gate, they should actually make people pay what they should be paying and cut out all the fiddles they are aware of e.g people paying pensioner rates when they aren't pensioners, adults going in on juvenile tickets, disabled ticket fiddles etc. What stops somebody buying a kids ticket and just scanning it and going in? Nothing

Isn't there a sort of traffic light on the inside of the turnstile, so a steward on the other side can see what type of ticket has been presented.. I thought it was green for adult, amber for concession..just my thought so I may be wrong.

[azul]

calvin plummers socks, on 24 October 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

My mistake you called Woodward and Brailsford '**** pots' whatever they are!

No, no it was all my mistake, you are entirely blameless, I shouldn't have used the plural

However since reading up on Brailsford..................

[boot]

johnd51, on 24 October 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

To be honest Chris I asked a few what I thought were pertinent questions and met with some silence from the huge top table. As usual the majority of this particular audience were completely silent and reluctant to rock the boat in any way. Mostly, any financial questions were answered by the auditor and, in one case, by a lad from the accounts office. In reply to Dave Bowler's and my questions re the Trust, Ashley Carson said 'it is being sorted'.
Bonuses were an issue but both PC and CT made a case for how they were justified and made financial sense the way they were structured.
Mainly the blame for the loss was attributed to 'the debt' and the failed concert.

I wish I had worked this out at the meeting but afterwards I did some simple sums. We lost £1,063,818 last year. If you take away the amount lost by the second concert (reportedly £275,000) and the amount paid in interest to service the debt (coincidentally also £275,000) and also the annual repayment to DA (222,222) we still would have lost £291,596, and that in a Wembley and promotion season.

DA says we just need more through the gate (heard that before?). Another 1000 for each of the 23 home games at £13 each (CT's figure) would be £299,000 just about breaking even. Apparently the average gate was about 6300 last season so even selling out the home areas every week would only have resulted in a further £209,000 less cost of sales.

Unless we get hold of the costs or find some more income streams the future is very tricky and players will be sold.






Of course players will be sold - that came from the top table and made a bit more sense than CT's 'Championship is the only way'. Recruit cheap sell dear if you can - Cook was at pains to say how critical recruitment is - Morsy was one example he gave of a player on nobody's radar when we signed him, and he wasn't the only one he enthused about - Doyle,the kid from Brentford, the left winger who played at Scunthorpe.
A discussion developed around player values to the extent that DA asked the meeting if they thought fees should pay down the debt or be reinvested in the team. He was happy with the answer - 'both'.

This post has been edited by boot: 24 October 2014 - 04:23 PM

[dim view]

johnd51, on 24 October 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

I wish I had worked this out at the meeting but afterwards I did some simple sums. We lost £1,063,818 last year. If you take away the amount lost by the second concert (reportedly £275,000) and the amount paid in interest to service the debt (coincidentally also £275,000) and also the annual repayment to DA (222,222) we still would have lost £291,596, and that in a Wembley and promotion season.

DA says we just need more through the gate (heard that before?). Another 1000 for each of the 23 home games at £13 each (CT's figure) would be £299,000 just about breaking even. Apparently the average gate was about 6300 last season so even selling out the home areas every week would only have resulted in a further £209,000 less cost of sales.

Unless we get hold of the costs or find some more income streams the future is very tricky and players will be sold.

My glass is fuller.

We didn't lose £1,063,818 last year, we lost £625,359 having carried forward a loss of £438,459 from the previous year. Still gloomy, but if we start by simply getting back to where we were, I reckon we've already cleared the £625k with the Cooper money. So assuming we carry on with the good start with income this year, we are going to be in the black RELATIVE TO 2013. Let's place the 2013 figures as the rock bottom situation in which we had to recover from relegation, clarify the extent of debts and the reasons for them, and back the manager by making considerable investment in the team.

So, how did we lose £625,359?. £275k on the concert. £Xk on redundancies. £Yk on investment in players. £Zk on insufficient crowd numbers.

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

azul, on 24 October 2014 - 03:58 PM, said:

Do you know this is happening on a significant level? Is it just hearsay?

Do you not listen to people in the pub when they are bragging about it? Ironically there are some on here that always want the club to spend more who do it

[azul]

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on 24 October 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

Do you not listen to people in the pub when they are bragging about it? Ironically there are some on here that always want the club to spend more who do it

Occasionally, but it is often anecdotal

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

azul, on 24 October 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

Occasionally, but it is often anecdotal

or you could just watch people in the queue sometimes and the categories they ask for before going in

[azul]

dim view, on 24 October 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

My glass is fuller.

We didn't lose £1,063,818 last year, we lost £625,359 having carried forward a loss of £438,459 from the previous year. Still gloomy, but if we start by simply getting back to where we were, I reckon we've already cleared the £625k with the Cooper money. So assuming we carry on with the good start with income this year, we are going to be in the black RELATIVE TO 2013. Let's place the 2013 figures as the rock bottom situation in which we had to recover from relegation, clarify the extent of debts and the reasons for them, and back the manager by making considerable investment in the team.

So, how did we lose £625,359?. £275k on the concert. £Xk on redundancies. £Yk on investment in players. £Zk on insufficient crowd numbers.

Is that what is states? I didn't read it that way the business review section states we made a loss of £1,063,818 compared to the previous years loss of £438,459 which doesn't suggest to me it was an accumulative loss over a 2 year period

[johnd51]

dim view, on 24 October 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

My glass is fuller.

We didn't lose £1,063,818 last year, we lost £625,359 having carried forward a loss of £438,459 from the previous year. Still gloomy, but if we start by simply getting back to where we were, I reckon we've already cleared the £625k with the Cooper money. So assuming we carry on with the good start with income this year, we are going to be in the black RELATIVE TO 2013. Let's place the 2013 figures as the rock bottom situation in which we had to recover from relegation, clarify the extent of debts and the reasons for them, and back the manager by making considerable investment in the team.

So, how did we lose £625,359?. £275k on the concert. £Xk on redundancies. £Yk on investment in players. £Zk on insufficient crowd numbers.

Not true David. The P and L is for year ended June 2014 and the loss on the year's trading is over a million. It is the balance sheet, cash flow and debt position which are adjusted based on each year's results.

[boot]

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on 24 October 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

Do you not listen to people in the pub when they are bragging about it? Ironically there are some on here that always want the club to spend more who do it

The light system is poorly monitored if at all. The solution, and it needs one, might be a prominent notice outside each turnstile warning that anybody found defrauding the club of money by entering on the wrong ticket would be ejected and liable to prosecution. Would that need a copper to be present ? Once that system was in place the turnstiles would be intensively monitored until the abuse was eradicated.

[hewittfan]

dim view, on 24 October 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

My glass is fuller.

We didn't lose £1,063,818 last year, we lost £625,359 having carried forward a loss of £438,459 from the previous year. Still gloomy, but if we start by simply getting back to where we were, I reckon we've already cleared the £625k with the Cooper money. So assuming we carry on with the good start with income this year, we are going to be in the black RELATIVE TO 2013. Let's place the 2013 figures as the rock bottom situation in which we had to recover from relegation, clarify the extent of debts and the reasons for them, and back the manager by making considerable investment in the team.

So, how did we lose £625,359?. £275k on the concert. £Xk on redundancies. £Yk on investment in players. £Zk on insufficient crowd numbers.

Wrong unfortunately, we did lose £1,063,818, that was on top of the loss of £438,459 in the previous year.

[hewittfan]

johnd51, on 24 October 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

To be honest Chris I asked a few what I thought were pertinent questions and met with some silence from the huge top table. As usual the majority of this particular audience were completely silent and reluctant to rock the boat in any way. Mostly, any financial questions were answered by the auditor and, in one case, by a lad from the accounts office. In reply to Dave Bowler's and my questions re the Trust, Ashley Carson said 'it is being sorted'.
Bonuses were an issue but both PC and CT made a case for how they were justified and made financial sense the way they were structured.
Mainly the blame for the loss was attributed to 'the debt' and the failed concert.

I wish I had worked this out at the meeting but afterwards I did some simple sums. We lost £1,063,818 last year. If you take away the amount lost by the second concert (reportedly £275,000) and the amount paid in interest to service the debt (coincidentally also £275,000) and also the annual repayment to DA (222,222) we still would have lost £291,596, and that in a Wembley and promotion season.

DA says we just need more through the gate (heard that before?). Another 1000 for each of the 23 home games at £13 each (CT's figure) would be £299,000 just about breaking even. Apparently the average gate was about 6300 last season so even selling out the home areas every week would only have resulted in a further £209,000 less cost of sales.

Unless we get hold of the costs or find some more income streams the future is very tricky and players will be sold.

The annual repayment to DA of £222,222 would be a balance sheet moverment and not part of the loss, but in any case according to the accounts (page 20), nothing was repaid in year ended 30 June 2014.

[dim view]

johnd51, on 24 October 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

Not true David. The P and L is for year ended June 2014 and the loss on the year's trading is over a million. It is the balance sheet, cash flow and debt position which are adjusted based on each year's results.

Ha. What a wally. Thanks. Accounting was never my strongpoint. Sorry folks.

[johnd51]

hewittfan, on 24 October 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

The annual repayment to DA of £222,222 would be a balance sheet moverment and not part of the loss, but in any case according to the accounts (page 20), nothing was repaid in year ended 30 June 2014.

That's right. We owe him that bit more then. Hope he writes it off!

[Westbars Spireite]

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on 24 October 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

Do you not listen to people in the pub when they are bragging about it? Ironically there are some on here that always want the club to spend more who do it

Let's have some names.

[Guest_freelander2_*]

At the last AGM, Dave Allen told fans not to worry about the debt and that it was under control. 12 months on:

1) An 18.2% increase in Turnover from £5,360,735 to £6,335,342.

2) Our wage bill for the entire business increased by 20% from £3,330,671 to £3,995,123.

3) Our trading loss increased by 142.7% from (£438,459) to (£1,063,818).

4) We’ve seen the amount owed to Creditors increase by 21.8%, from £6,730,946 to £8,200,427.

5) A 38.2% decrease in the net worth of the business, from £2,786,730 down to £1,722,912.


Even last night, Dave Allen assured Shareholders that the debt was under control and that the business is heading in the right direction. Now either Dave has took leave of his senses or he thinks a lot of us are naïve.

As far as I’m concerned the business was clearly out of control last year and I suspect, still is:

1) We budgeted for gates of 7,000, yet failed to monitor our greatest income stream and continued to spend as if we were actually achieving the target. Turner actually revealed last night, that all the staff had a pay increase last financial year, was he not monitoring the P&L statement each month when he/the Board decided to award salary increases right across the business?

2) We entered into fixed bonus agreements with the football staff without assessing the liability to the business and whether or not the business could adequately fund those payments.

3) We failed badly to manage and promote the concerts, a weekend that should have been a massive pay day for the Club.

Chris Turner has been on my radar for a long time now, he’s well & truly out of his comfort zone. Even last night, when he was trying to make Sheridan out to be a sh’head in terms of player salaries, etc, what both Turner & Cook failed to mention was that the last time we were promoted, our wage bill for the entire business was £752K less than last season, with a very similar headcount. So this notion that Cook is delivering more for less is tripe, he’s delivering more at a cost.

Given Dave Allen’s objectives for the business, reaffirmed again last night, for it to trade profitably and reduce the level of debt, the summer that Turner had in the media and this latest set of results, I’m surprised he’s still in a job. Dave Allen aside, we have a couple of Directors that have done well for themselves, would Turner still be in employment in their businesses had he produced those results and shown the lack of financial understanding that he has, I suspect not.

I must admit, Turner left me speechless last night, when he claimed that the only way to repay the debt would be to get into the Championship! I had considered asking him by how much would the debt have to increase by to get into the Championship and how many years in the Championship would it take to clear the debt, but I thought better of it, the answer would have been long winded and without any numerical reference.

Thankfully, the problems at CFC are not my concern.

[valemadness]

DA interview with Chesterfield Post
http://www.chesterfi...c_00001048.html

[zigger-zagger]

So to pay off the debt we have to reach the championship.......hmmmmm..... casino accounting...... one hell of a gamble...... tick....tock....tick....tock