[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Bobby Darling, on 04 April 2024 - 03:21 PM, said:

Amazing. It is to be hoped that these honourable men will resign as Councillors and re-stand as Independents. Only 4 of them are contesting seats in the May election.
Whilst you’re googling can you post a link to the 63 existing Conservative MPs who have already indicated why they are not standing at the next GE. Might be worthwhile posting a link to last week’s resignations of Halfon and Heappey as well. They were interesting given they were deemed RS fans. You don’t think the PM has lost control of his Party do you?

Expect the all too predictable tumbleweed.

But much more importantly... https://www.mirror.c...-could-32508740

[isleaiw1]

Bobby Darling, on 04 April 2024 - 03:21 PM, said:

Amazing. It is to be hoped that these honourable men will resign as Councillors and re-stand as Independents. Only 4 of them are contesting seats in the May election.
Whilst you’re googling can you post a link to the 63 existing Conservative MPs who have already indicated why they are not standing at the next GE. Might be worthwhile posting a link to last week’s resignations of Halfon and Heappey as well. They were interesting given they were deemed RS fans. You don’t think the PM has lost control of his Party do you?

I'm hoping all this "if anything changes you have to resign" concern continues under the new govt at the end of the year... or will the rhetoric change then and the words will be "but the Tories didnt". If you believe something is right then you should do it and set a precedent...

For what its worth, if you were elected to represent one party then I believe if you stop representing that party you should stand down and seek reelection. Howveer should a party leader change then as he is only the leader of the party but the manifesto should be broadly the same then they can continue. Same view whoever is on power....

[Valley Blues]

Bobby Darling, on 04 April 2024 - 03:21 PM, said:

Amazing. It is to be hoped that these honourable men will resign as Councillors and re-stand as Independents. Only 4 of them are contesting seats in the May election.
Whilst you’re googling can you post a link to the 63 existing Conservative MPs who have already indicated why they are not standing at the next GE. Might be worthwhile posting a link to last week’s resignations of Halfon and Heappey as well. They were interesting given they were deemed RS fans. You don’t think the PM has lost control of his Party do you?

I couldn’t give a toss about the Tories and their internal chaos. They’re finished. Done. Or they certainly should be.

What does concern me, as a voter not blinded by the red lights, is that the party waiting in the wings appear to be just as bad. The cracks are there for all that want to see.

The nation should be looking forward to a fresh start under a party ready to boot out one of the worst governments in living memory yet they’re barely able to make themselves any more appealing.

I suppose your immediate response of ‘but look at the Tories, ‘they’re worse though’ is what we can expect from the new government once they get the keys. It’s what we’re being fed constantly now.

Maybe toeing the party line?

A bit like our friend ‘Earl’ who took 6 hours to post on this thread, suggesting there will be a tumbleweed-like response yet on the thread with some extremely relevant questions about the Labour plan once elected, he had to be enticed out of his hiding place and eventually reared his head 3 weeks later. Interesting he was so devoid of any actual answers.

Toeing the party line?

What a time to be a British voter, eh.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Valley Blues, on 05 April 2024 - 08:36 AM, said:

I couldn’t give a toss about the Tories and their internal chaos. They’re finished. Done. Or they certainly should be.

What does concern me, as a voter not blinded by the red lights, is that the party waiting in the wings appear to be just as bad. The cracks are there for all that want to see.

The nation should be looking forward to a fresh start under a party ready to boot out one of the worst governments in living memory yet they’re barely able to make themselves any more appealing.

I suppose your immediate response of ‘but look at the Tories, ‘they’re worse though’ is what we can expect from the new government once they get the keys. It’s what we’re being fed constantly now.

Maybe toeing the party line?

A bit like our friend ‘Earl’ who took 6 hours to post on this thread, suggesting there will be a tumbleweed-like response yet on the thread with some extremely relevant questions about the Labour plan once elected, he had to be enticed out of his hiding place and eventually reared his head 3 weeks later. Interesting he was so devoid of any actual answers.

Toeing the party line?

What a time to be a British voter, eh.

Touche.

And you can stop the clock, now...

[isleaiw1]

Valley Blues, on 05 April 2024 - 08:36 AM, said:

I couldn’t give a toss about the Tories and their internal chaos. They’re finished. Done. Or they certainly should be.

What does concern me, as a voter not blinded by the red lights, is that the party waiting in the wings appear to be just as bad. The cracks are there for all that want to see.

The nation should be looking forward to a fresh start under a party ready to boot out one of the worst governments in living memory yet they’re barely able to make themselves any more appealing.

I suppose your immediate response of ‘but look at the Tories, ‘they’re worse though’ is what we can expect from the new government once they get the keys. It’s what we’re being fed constantly now.

Maybe toeing the party line?

A bit like our friend ‘Earl’ who took 6 hours to post on this thread, suggesting there will be a tumbleweed-like response yet on the thread with some extremely relevant questions about the Labour plan once elected, he had to be enticed out of his hiding place and eventually reared his head 3 weeks later. Interesting he was so devoid of any actual answers.

Toeing the party line?

What a time to be a British voter, eh.

Had the Tory chap round for the local elections earlier this week, given short shrift, but he wanted a survey completing.... who were you most likely to vote for in the general election, ranked 1 to 10.... I think my views are probably reflected in the fact that the Tories got a zero, the two other main parties couldnt manage more than a 4 between them!

It is indeed who is the least bad... and really time for some new radical thinking... At least Thatcher and Blair, probably two of the most despised politicians from recent UK history, had ideas and offered something to change the country...

[Bobby Darling]

Valley Blues, on 05 April 2024 - 08:36 AM, said:

I couldn’t give a toss about the Tories and their internal chaos. They’re finished. Done. Or they certainly should be.

What does concern me, as a voter not blinded by the red lights, is that the party waiting in the wings appear to be just as bad. The cracks are there for all that want to see.

The nation should be looking forward to a fresh start under a party ready to boot out one of the worst governments in living memory yet they’re barely able to make themselves any more appealing.

I suppose your immediate response of ‘but look at the Tories, ‘they’re worse though’ is what we can expect from the new government once they get the keys. It’s what we’re being fed constantly now.

Maybe toeing the party line?

A bit like our friend ‘Earl’ who took 6 hours to post on this thread, suggesting there will be a tumbleweed-like response yet on the thread with some extremely relevant questions about the Labour plan once elected, he had to be enticed out of his hiding place and eventually reared his head 3 weeks later. Interesting he was so devoid of any actual answers.

Toeing the party line?

What a time to be a British voter, eh.

Not sure you are up to speed. The “nation” is going to get a fresh start. The polls consistently suggest Labour is appealing to the electorate. I’m certainly considering voting for them. You should simply abstain or not bother tipping up to spoil your ballot paper. Stop obsessing about the Labour Party.

[isleaiw1]

Bobby Darling, on 07 April 2024 - 08:34 AM, said:

Not sure you are up to speed. The “nation” is going to get a fresh start. The polls consistently suggest Labour is appealing to the electorate. I’m certainly considering voting for them. You should simply abstain or not bother tipping up to spoil your ballot paper. Stop obsessing about the Labour Party.

I'd like to see the evidence that the support for the Labour party is for their policies and manifesto as opposed to they just arent the Tories, could you post a link please?

[Valley Blues]

Bobby Darling, on 07 April 2024 - 08:34 AM, said:

Not sure you are up to speed. The “nation” is going to get a fresh start. The polls consistently suggest Labour is appealing to the electorate. I’m certainly considering voting for them. You should simply abstain or not bother tipping up to spoil your ballot paper. Stop obsessing about the Labour Party.

Although it’s non of my business, what Labour policies are meaning you are considering voting for them?

Other than them not being the Tories.

It’s a genuine question as the Labour Party have yet to do anything whatsoever to ‘win’ my vote, other than not being the Tories.

[dim view]

Valley Blues, on 07 April 2024 - 09:01 AM, said:

Although it’s non of my business, what Labour policies are meaning you are considering voting for them?

'Labor Omnia Vincit' - taught at all great Grammar Schools.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Valley Blues, on 07 April 2024 - 09:01 AM, said:

Although it’s non of my business, what Labour policies are meaning you are considering voting for them?

Other than them not being the Tories.

It’s a genuine question as the Labour Party have yet to do anything whatsoever to ‘win’ my vote, other than not being the Tories.

Non confrontational post: couldn't we turn this on it's head and ask what you want to hear? What any political party has to say to win your vote?

Same applies to other non committed observers.

Y'see I keep hearing that Labour haven't done enough, which I completely get. I too want them to be far bolder. However what I'm not hearing is a list of desires or demands...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 07 April 2024 - 09:20 AM

[isleaiw1]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 07 April 2024 - 09:19 AM, said:

Non confrontational post: couldn't we turn this on it's head and ask what you want to hear? What any political party has to say to win your vote?

Same applies to other non committed observers.

Y'see I keep hearing that Labour haven't done enough, which I completely get. I too want them to be far bolder. However what I'm not hearing is a list of desires or demands...

Go on, I will bite..

More radical policies on income tax than tinkering round the edges and taxing high earners more.... so scrap NI, move it into one pot, multiple rates from 20% with no NI) to 60% but no rubbish around marginal rates at 60% for lower earners...

Ideally tax bills based on household income and not individual - its good enough for benefits payments so lets be consistent...

Recognise all of the debt and fully fund govt pension schemes.

Look overseas for better ways to run the NHS - see what countries we think are good and copy those.... my guess is it will involve some insurance backed for those that can afford and free for those that cant.

Make work pay... and make getting on pay. We need to get rid of these steps that stop people wanting to work overtime, get a better job...

Invest more in collecting tax from the cash economy. That might mean legalising weed, adding duty and it being sold through official channels. It might mean more ability to link earnings per your bank account to lifestyle indicators...

Longer term, we need use based charging for cars - as the fuel duty take will decline over time, and we need to promote more environmentally friendly options.

Sort out VAT - reduce it on products we want to encourage, increase it on products we want to discourage or luxury items

Work out a higher / further education policy - too many 18 year olds go on to uni because its the only option. Promote training and education in work, maybe make additional training three year programmes with additional tax relief for businesses...but how are they made as valuable to a business who still start most job ads with "graduate". We have to move away from a degree being necessary for all jobs... nurses didnt need them for years, why do they now, for example?

If its a natural monopoly and there is no competition then nationalise - water is the obvious one. But run it with private sector performance goals as well...

Get rid of the quangos and the extended govt, if its not working to a key mission do we need it.

Sure there are a million more. To be honest, I'd like them to be saying something, we are probably 6 to 7 months away from an election now and we should be starting to understand what they stand for, with the detail that allows you to question your local candidates on what that means in reality. Ours just blusters round the missions and then says he will challenge the train company....

[Wooden Spoon]

Went to a TUC fringe group meeting today to discuss the 40fh anniversary of the miners strike.


Some really good discussions and points of views raised

The most interesting point was the fact that flying pickets turned up and tried to dictate their point of view on Notts miners rather than trying to organise from within the notts miners to support the dispute.

Second point was how the trade union movement failed to support miners and why, when the reason for not supporting was a failure of a national ballot but over 80% of miners were on strike?

Third was NACODS voted to strike, had talks with the coal board, the NUM and ACAS and were like 95% close to a deal that would have ended the strike - and suddenly was overturned for a new deal that protected NACODS members jobs in any circumstances


Over to Ian.

[fishini]

isleaiw1, on 07 April 2024 - 08:38 AM, said:

I'd like to see the evidence that the support for the Labour party is for their policies and manifesto as opposed to they just arent the Tories, could you post a link please?

Most elections victories are based on it the fact that they weren't the other party

This post has been edited by fishini: 15 April 2024 - 04:23 AM

[isleaiw1]

Wooden Spoon, on 15 April 2024 - 02:26 AM, said:

Went to a TUC fringe group meeting today to discuss the 40fh anniversary of the miners strike.


Some really good discussions and points of views raised

The most interesting point was the fact that flying pickets turned up and tried to dictate their point of view on Notts miners rather than trying to organise from within the notts miners to support the dispute.

Second point was how the trade union movement failed to support miners and why, when the reason for not supporting was a failure of a national ballot but over 80% of miners were on strike?

Third was NACODS voted to strike, had talks with the coal board, the NUM and ACAS and were like 95% close to a deal that would have ended the strike - and suddenly was overturned for a new deal that protected NACODS members jobs in any circumstances


Over to Ian.

I'm a simple man. Have a ballot, make it legit. I probably wouldnt have done it in March when coal stocks were highest they had ever been and after management had been preparing for it.

On that basis they would probably have won, and pits would still have closed as they were paying too much to mine coal that couldnt be sold (hence the highest stocks there had ever been). There may have been subsidies on imported coal (poland I believe) but werent we restricted from doing that under EU rules..?

[isleaiw1]

fishini, on 15 April 2024 - 04:22 AM, said:

Most elections victories are based on it the fact that they weren't the other party

And here's me thinking people voted Labour for their policies, and not because they arent tories..?

I'm not sure that outside of historical Labour strongholds it works like that, if they want the votes of the home counties for example, I think they may have to have a manifesto that earns a vote.... That's how Blair won, it helped he wasnt Major but he had something to offer people and attract them to his new party...

[fishini]

isleaiw1, on 15 April 2024 - 08:20 AM, said:

And here's me thinking people voted Labour for their policies, and not because they arent tories..?

I'm not sure that outside of historical Labour strongholds it works like that, if they want the votes of the home counties for example, I think they may have to have a manifesto that earns a vote.... That's how Blair won, it helped he wasnt Major but he had something to offer people and attract them to his new party...

That's why I said most and not all

[s42blue]

fishini, on 15 April 2024 - 04:22 AM, said:

Most elections victories are based on it the fact that they weren't the other party

89.57% of statistics are made up.

[Goku]

https://www.thenatio...e-health-firms/

This man is the shadow health secretary…

Blokes a weasel with no principles

[isleaiw1]

Goku, on 15 April 2024 - 04:34 PM, said:

https://www.thenatio...e-health-firms/

This man is the shadow health secretary…

Blokes a weasel with no principles

He has complied with the laws of the House and the companies with "links to private health care providers" provide recruitment services (including for the NHS) and the other is an investment company with millions invested in healthcare providers - but it doesnt say how much is invested elsewhere and whether the healthcare investment is in any way core to what they do...

So is he a weasel, or are the rules of the house wrong and a scottish rag trying to find a story to print against Labour as they are likely to take seats from the SNP?


By the way, getting people to use other than the NHS where they can frees up the NHS for those with no choice meaning they get a better service and quicker appointment - the best health services that everyone always looks to to show how good other countries are (inc Germany and Australia) have part insurance backed, part state backed cover - we need to accept that with an ageing population and a dwindling workforce we need to do the same....

(quick tell Chris I'm being balanced and supporting Labour - mainly as he is one who has actually grasped the nettle and said he will do the right thing, even if his reasoning is a bit off )

[spireitetoo]

 Goku, on 15 April 2024 - 04:34 PM, said:

https://www.thenatio...e-health-firms/

This man is the shadow health secretary…

Blokes a weasel with no principles

I'm far from political, but I do like to see what you all have to say on these matters, and it's fair to say when a Tory minister gets found out on a matter similar to this, there's a proper pile on from a 2 or 3 posters which seem to have gone quiet on this??