[Phil V 72]

Having seen Doyle's two goals described as 'long balls' by various media outlets and large chunks of the opposition, were both "long balls"?

The first, a punt from Tommy was very direct and could probably fall into "long ball" category. As a defending team, you'd be disappointed to concede like this.

The second was a ball into space, which Eoin Doyle admitted that he and Raglan had been talking about, playing into space, in front of Doyle, for him to run on to.

Are these both "Long Balls" or is the second a "long pass" rather than a 'long ball'? Are they as good as a 25-pass move ending with a tap in? Does it matter, if it ends up in the back of the net?

One of the criticisms of Cook is that we don't mix the styles up enough. Is this proof that actually, we do have a different side to our play? To have a centre half with the ability to ping a 50-yard ball into the channel is an excellent way of getting Doyle facing goal, 1 on 1 with a defender and can actually be very effective.

[60s 70s Spireite]

Phil V 72, on 24 November 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

Having seen Doyle's two goals described as 'long balls' by various media outlets and large chunks of the opposition, were both "long balls"?

The first, a punt from Tommy was very direct and could probably fall into "long ball" category. As a defending team, you'd be disappointed to concede like this.

The second was a ball into space, which Eoin Doyle admitted that he and Raglan had been talking about, playing into space, in front of Doyle, for him to run on to.

Are these both "Long Balls" or is the second a "long pass" rather than a 'long ball'? Are they as good as a 25-pass move ending with a tap in? Does it matter, if it ends up in the back of the net?

One of the criticisms of Cook is that we don't mix the styles up enough. Is this proof that actually, we do have a different side to our play? To have a centre half with the ability to ping a 50-yard ball into the channel is an excellent way of getting Doyle facing goal, 1 on 1 with a defender and can actually be very effective.

Its easy. It's a long ball when it finds the opposition or the attacker can merely get an aimless head on it (eg Tommy's punt- headed poorly by their defender) and a superb long pass when it lands in front of the attacker for him to have it under control very quickly (Raglan's). Trouble is I am not sure the passer knows what it's going to be when he kicks it.

[Freddie]

Phil V 72, on 24 November 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

Having seen Doyle's two goals described as 'long balls' by various media outlets and large chunks of the opposition, were both "long balls"?

The first, a punt from Tommy was very direct and could probably fall into "long ball" category. As a defending team, you'd be disappointed to concede like this.

The second was a ball into space, which Eoin Doyle admitted that he and Raglan had been talking about, playing into space, in front of Doyle, for him to run on to.

Are these both "Long Balls" or is the second a "long pass" rather than a 'long ball'? Are they as good as a 25-pass move ending with a tap in? Does it matter, if it ends up in the back of the net?

One of the criticisms of Cook is that we don't mix the styles up enough. Is this proof that actually, we do have a different side to our play? To have a centre half with the ability to ping a 50-yard ball into the channel is an excellent way of getting Doyle facing goal, 1 on 1 with a defender and can actually be very effective.

[Freddie]

In all the debate about long ball or not long ball, one thing has gone unmentioned. That is, what about the superb one touch control that enabled Doyle to take Raglan's pass without checking his pace and bringing the ball under control in an instant. In my opinion it was that moment of skill which made the opportunity to turn the fullback and create the space to get his shot away.

[NOFX]

Or looking at it another way Danny Wilson might as well say "the weak spot in our pressing style is we leave a big gap behind the defence, ping it over the top and you are in with a shout"

[Goku]

Freddie, on 24 November 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

In all the debate about long ball or not long ball, one thing has gone unmentioned. That is, what about the superb one touch control that enabled Doyle to take Raglan's pass without checking his pace and bringing the ball under control in an instant. In my opinion it was that moment of skill which made the opportunity to turn the fullback and create the space to get his shot away.

Was just going to post something similar but you've beaten me to it. Beautiful touch which meant he didn't break stride.

[Phil V 72]

Freddie, on 24 November 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

In all the debate about long ball or not long ball, one thing has gone unmentioned. That is, what about the superb one touch control that enabled Doyle to take Raglan's pass without checking his pace and bringing the ball under control in an instant. In my opinion it was that moment of skill which made the opportunity to turn the fullback and create the space to get his shot away.

I think that skillful play goes beyond how many passes you can make and agreed, it was fantastic skill.
The interesting but I was reading is that both Doyle and Raglan planned this move, when the opportunity arose.
Well done all round

[sophocles]

Freddie, on 24 November 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

In all the debate about long ball or not long ball, one thing has gone unmentioned. That is, what about the superb one touch control that enabled Doyle to take Raglan's pass without checking his pace and bringing the ball under control in an instant. In my opinion it was that moment of skill which made the opportunity to turn the fullback and create the space to get his shot away.

Agree - I was thinking the same thing, and it applies to both goals. Irrespective of how the ball reached him, Doyle controlled the ball brilliantly while moving at speed with the ball coming from behind him. The first one displayed an instinctive awareness of where the goal was as he chipped it instantly with pinpoint accuracy. The second showed a level of composure that was reminiscent of Sir Jack himself as Doyle calmly manoeuvred into position and slotted it accurately into the corner. I don't want to go over the top, but I think those two goals indicate that ED may have moved up a level as a clinical striker. I just hope there aren't too many scouts from other clubs who agree with me, or the chances of us holding on to him until the end of the season will diminish.

[JonB]

Freddie, on 24 November 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

In all the debate about long ball or not long ball, one thing has gone unmentioned. That is, what about the superb one touch control that enabled Doyle to take Raglan's pass without checking his pace and bringing the ball under control in an instant. In my opinion it was that moment of skill which made the opportunity to turn the fullback and create the space to get his shot away.

It has been mentioned on a couple of other threads....because i mentioned it! First thing i said at the game on Saturday after the goal was the touch from Doyle was fantastic! As you say the first touch meant that in an instant the ball was exactly where it needed to be to square up the defender and allow the finish to the far corner. If i remember correctly its not the first time his first touch has been mentioned either....setting up Gardener in the 4 goal blitz at Cheltenham last season springs to mind as well when he pulled down a quick clearance from Tommy down the left.

[lindo-spireite]

Yeah I agree that the two goals on Saturday show that Doyle has definitely stepped up a level. The second one especially, one of my worries have been that we didn't have a striker that can create his own chances, but Doyle definitely did that Saturday after an excellent first touch.

[Phil V 72]

sophocles, on 24 November 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:

Agree - I was thinking the same thing, and it applies to both goals. Irrespective of how the ball reached him, Doyle controlled the ball brilliantly while moving at speed with the ball coming from behind him. The first one displayed an instinctive awareness of where the goal was as he chipped it instantly with pinpoint accuracy. The second showed a level of composure that was reminiscent of Sir Jack himself as Doyle calmly manoeuvred into position and slotted it accurately into the corner. I don't want to go over the top, but I think those two goals indicate that ED may have moved up a level as a clinical striker.[b] I just hope there aren't too many scouts from other clubs who agree with me, or the chances of us holding on to him until the end of the season will diminish.[/b]

Although presumably the price will increase and the 7-figures transfer fee would be more likely?

2 questions -

1) what's he worth?
2) What's he worth to us given he is in effect our only striker?

This post has been edited by Phil V 72: 24 November 2014 - 03:10 PM

[Spire-Power]

Phil V 72, on 24 November 2014 - 03:10 PM, said:

Although presumably the price will increase and the 7-figures transfer fee would be more likely?

2 questions -

1) what's he worth?
2) What's he worth to us given he is in effect our only striker?

He has to be worth £1m+ at the moment, possibly £2m. High scorers are always in demand and top prices have to be paid for them, especially as he still has years ahead of him. That overrules what he is worth to us because we would have to take the money and, with it, Cook should be able to find a decent replacement (not Higdon though lol).

[brianclose]

JonB, on 24 November 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

It has been mentioned on a couple of other threads....because i mentioned it! First thing i said at the game on Saturday after the goal was the touch from Doyle was fantastic! As you say the first touch meant that in an instant the ball was exactly where it needed to be to square up the defender and allow the finish to the far corner. If i remember correctly its not the first time his first touch has been mentioned either....setting up Gardener in the 4 goal blitz at Cheltenham last season springs to mind as well when he pulled down a quick clearance from Tommy down the left.

It was Roberts who set Gardner up in that match.

[brianclose]

Spire-Power, on 24 November 2014 - 03:17 PM, said:

He has to be worth £1m+ at the moment, possibly £2m. High scorers are always in demand and top prices have to be paid for them, especially as he still has years ahead of him. That overrules what he is worth to us because we would have to take the money and, with it, Cook should be able to find a decent replacement (not Higdon though lol).

Hes definitely gone up a level, but lets also have a bit of a reality check, he'd just gone on a league run of 5 without scoring, and hardly looking like he was going to score either.

The two goals he scored on Saturday were probably his best two goals for us and any watching scouts couldnt fail to be impressed (as were the Barnsley fans going by their message board).

I would have thought his market value at the moment is probably 800,000-£1m.

[JonB]

brianclose, on 24 November 2014 - 03:34 PM, said:

It was Roberts who set Gardner up in that match.

Right game...wrong goal! Its actually the second goal that Doyle scores himself :-
https://www.youtube....h?v=Egv4yuLE-mI

That said i think there are a few other examples as well...i'm just struggling to remember the exact games they happened in!

[Spire-Power]

brianclose, on 24 November 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

Hes definitely gone up a level, but lets also have a bit of a reality check, he'd just gone on a league run of 5 without scoring, and hardly looking like he was going to score either.

The two goals he scored on Saturday were probably his best two goals for us and any watching scouts couldnt fail to be impressed (as were the Barnsley fans going by their message board).

I would have thought his market value at the moment is probably 800,000-£1m.

Maybe the service was poor

[martatcross]

What ever it was the Raglan pass is precise and if Wilson wants to disguise it thats ok by me it was a good goal end of story for me.

[dim view]

sophocles, on 24 November 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:

The second showed a level of composure that was reminiscent of Sir Jack himself as Doyle calmly manoeuvred into position and slotted it accurately into the corner. I don't want to go over the top, but I think those two goals indicate that ED may have moved up a level as a clinical striker.

He may have moved up a level, but he's not in the same class as Jack. As you can see from various highlights, defenders have learned to show him left on every occasion, 'cos he's weak on his left. Fair enough, the hapless defender still couldn't stop him on this occasion, but he should have. On the previous chance that Eoin blasted wide, Jack would have turned his man inside out and side footed the ball into the corner with his left. I think Eoin has only scored 1 with his left foot - a nice little dink.

[60s 70s Spireite]

dim view, on 24 November 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

He may have moved up a level, but he's not in the same class as Jack. As you can see from various highlights, defenders have learned to show him left on every occasion, 'cos he's weak on his left. Fair enough, the hapless defender still couldn't stop him on this occasion, but he should have. On the previous chance that Eoin blasted wide, Jack would have turned his man inside out and side footed the ball into the corner with his left. I think Eoin has only scored 1 with his left foot - a nice little dink.

You know that for certain?

[boot]

dim view, on 24 November 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

He may have moved up a level, but he's not in the same class as Jack. As you can see from various highlights, defenders have learned to show him left on every occasion, 'cos he's weak on his left. Fair enough, the hapless defender still couldn't stop him on this occasion, but he should have. On the previous chance that Eoin blasted wide, Jack would have turned his man inside out and side footed the ball into the corner with his left. I think Eoin has only scored 1 with his left foot - a nice little dink.

He didn't make the same mistake twice though Dim. I was dead in line with both chances which were almost identical. He worked the first chance on his right and with more composure instead of blasting it he would have scored - never mind his left. I said straight away that he should have put it along the floor inside the far post. Next time he did exactly that - intelligent player.

This post has been edited by boot: 24 November 2014 - 04:54 PM