[Town_Fan]

I notice that Bournemouth (one of the original community clubs) has had to sell their main assett to keep out of administration. They are selling Dean Court and are going to lease it back, as expected there are many rumblings of disquiet about this move as its only a skip and a jump away from the death of teh club. I wonder what the champions of fans owned and community clubs make of this. I cant really think of a club of this nature that has been particularly successful and indeed as the Bournemouth example indicates if anything they are in a more precarious state. I of course agree that success is a relative term and for many clubs their continued survival is success.

[Bankrobber]

Town_Fan, on Nov 10 2005, 08:14 AM, said:

I notice that Bournemouth (one of the original community clubs) has had to sell their main assett to keep out of administration. They are selling Dean Court and are going to lease it back, as expected there are many rumblings of disquiet about this move as its only a skip and a jump away from the death of teh club. I wonder what the champions of fans owned and community clubs make of this. I cant really think of a club of this nature that has been particularly successful and indeed as the Bournemouth example indicates if anything they are in a more precarious state. I of course agree that success is a relative term and for many clubs their continued survival is success.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting, yes, but i understood Bournemouth to have some particularly hostile creditors, the Inland Revenue being one. I would suggest CFC have a healthy habit of keeping the tax man on side.

[h again]

Town_Fan, on Nov 10 2005, 08:14 AM, said:

I notice that Bournemouth (one of the original community clubs) has had to sell their main assett to keep out of administration. They are selling Dean Court and are going to lease it back, as expected there are many rumblings of disquiet about this move as its only a skip and a jump away from the death of teh club. I wonder what the champions of fans owned and community clubs make of this. I cant really think of a club of this nature that has been particularly successful and indeed as the Bournemouth example indicates if anything they are in a more precarious state. I of course agree that success is a relative term and for many clubs their continued survival is success.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What I make of it is that community clubs can get into financial difficulties just like one man or board owned clubs. It isn't like waving a magic wand, you know.

[Town_Fan]

h again, on Nov 10 2005, 06:50 PM, said:

What I make of it is that community clubs can get into financial difficulties just like one man or board owned clubs.  It isn't like waving a magic wand, you know.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know, my point was that none of the fans owned / community clubs seem to be doing very well at all. In fact some have gone back to a major shareholder / owner situation after realising that ownership of a club in a CFSS-esque way whilst a noble utopian ideal ultimately cant pay the bills. I wonder what the likes of Supporters direct make of this. Whether they maybe better off championing the cause of fan pressure groups rather than out and out owners the football clubs.

Have their been any successes of fans owned clubs? For the purpose of this question I would have to include ownership outright of the club and no need for 3rd party support. AFC Wimbledon maybe?

[Majorca Mac]

Town_Fan, on Nov 10 2005, 07:37 PM, said:

I know, my point was that none of the fans owned / community clubs seem to be doing very well at all. In fact some have gone back to a major shareholder / owner situation after realising that ownership of a club in a CFSS-esque way whilst a noble utopian ideal ultimately cant pay the bills. I wonder what the likes of Supporters direct make of this. Whether they maybe better off championing the cause of fan pressure groups rather than out and out owners the football clubs.

Have their been any successes of fans owned clubs? For the purpose of this question I would have to include ownership outright of the club and no need for 3rd party support. AFC Wimbledon maybe?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lincoln, perhaps..?

[Town_Fan]

Majorca Mac, on Nov 11 2005, 01:15 PM, said:

Lincoln, perhaps..?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The same Lincoln that couldnt afford to let their players keep their shirts after the play off final? Just seems to me that all community clubs seem to be run hand to mouth.

[philtooleycfss]

Just a couple of notes about the Clubs mentioned:

Bournemouth - despite all the talk of being a 'Community Club, in truth, until very recently, Bournemouth never were a Community Club. The balance of power and ownership was always held by a small number of individuals (who were fans and members of the community) and the Club run as such. The Community Mutual was only handed the Golden Shares in February this year as the Club continued to run up huge debts, no doubt making it a much easier get out for the individuals concerened if things got very bad. The ground sell thing has come about solely by spending much more than income and making seven figure losses for the last two or three seasons. Unfortunately the Community Mutual had an impossible task to vote on selling the ground or not, the debts are so big, the club could have died, the ultimate rock v hard place argument.

Lincoln City - wanted to keep their shirts because they'd sold them (like we did at Semi Final in 97 stage - I've got Chris Perkins Old Trafford Shirt, cost £350 if I remember, no one thought that was because we were skint). City, under the shrewd stewardship of Rob Bradley, a good friend of mine, though he stepped down in May, have posted profits of £750,000 and £250,000 in the last two years, they reached the play offs in those two seasons despite having one of the league's smallest budgets. Lincoln are not owned by their Trust but the Trust is the biggest single (though still less than 50%) shareholder.

As for the other supporter owned or controlled clubs, Brentford (controlled but not owned by Trust) last season made the FA Cup 5th round, the play offs and posted the first ever profit in modern times at Griffin Park, Enfield Town, AFC Telford United and AFC Wimbledon all won promotion last season, York City, despite disappointing on the field performances last season, managed to buy their ground back after it was sold by Douglas Craig. Exeter City's trip to FA Cup 3 and Man United last season wiped out their inherited debts and FC United of Manchester are the 92nd best supported club in the land despite being in the NW Counties league.

Of the 'newly acquired' clubs, Stockport County, despite their low league position, are unbeaten at home still and beat Swansea in the Cup and Rushden & Diamonds are gradually building up their off the field income. These two clubs were only taken over by the Trusts in June, so have not had time to make a real impact.

Phil

[Town_Fan]

Interesting reply Phil, thanks for pointing out the successful cubs in your list are not owned by the fans ie Lincoln and Brentford.

[azul]

It's not a good example using Bournemouth as a community club in trouble, best use them as an example of a club building a new ground, not able to afford it and overestimating the revenue from it.

Thier biggest creditors (and some of the most hostile) are those who lent them the dosh to build it in the fisrt place