[Goku]

metallilad, on 21 October 2021 - 07:30 PM, said:

First of all I'm not condoning what has been done, never will and I sure as hell ain't a sympathiser.
But please tell me why the hell has any of that got anything to do with running a football club?
Other countries/religions operate differently to ours. We see our way of beliefs/lifestyle as being the correct way but they obviously see their beliefs/lifestyle as being correct. We all would find it abhorrent behaviour if an individual came on here telling us that our beliefs/lifestyle were wrong and yet so many want to chase the new owners out of Newcastle because of their beliefs.
Now, rightly so we condemn them for the atrocities they have carried out over here, but we also condemn them for what they do in their own countries and we condemn them when they criticise our way of living.
So do we see ourselves as being the good guys and they are the baddies? Or is it just a holier than thou attitude we have?

Wow.

Women in Saudi can barely participate in society, it’s not about holier than thou it’s about human decency, and that’s before we get into them murdering journalists.

If we murdered journalists in our country or were overtly sexist and oppressive towards wonencto the extent that Saudis are I would have zero problems with somebody coming from another country and pointing this out, so speak for yourself on that one too.

[metallilad]

Goku, on 21 October 2021 - 07:43 PM, said:

Wow.

Women in Saudi can barely participate in society, it’s not about holier than thou it’s about human decency, and that’s before we get into them murdering journalists.

If we murdered journalists in our country or were overtly sexist and oppressive towards wonencto the extent that Saudis are I would have zero problems with somebody coming from another country and pointing this out, so speak for yourself on that one too.

Goku. You just said that I speak for myself which makes it out to be my point of view when all I have done is asked a question. I understand that you must feel quite passionate about their way of life and that it upsets you. But it is their way of life and just because you think it's wrong it doesn't mean it's wrong in their eyes.
So I'll ask the question again.
What does their beliefs have anything to do with them running a football club in our country?
Do we see ourselves as the good guys and them as the baddies?
Or are we just being holier than thou?

[Westbars Spireite]

metallilad, on 21 October 2021 - 10:07 PM, said:

Goku. You just said that I speak for myself which makes it out to be my point of view when all I have done is asked a question. I understand that you must feel quite passionate about their way of life and that it upsets you. But it is their way of life and just because you think it's wrong it doesn't mean it's wrong in their eyes.
So I'll ask the question again.
What does their beliefs have anything to do with them running a football club in our country?
Do we see ourselves as the good guys and them as the baddies?
Or are we just being holier than thou?

Depends whether you believe that there is bad and good ideologies and that change can be made for the greater good or humankind. If you don't, that's a little strange as a concept.

[Wooden Spoon]

Goku, on 21 October 2021 - 07:43 PM, said:

Wow.

Women in Saudi can barely participate in society, it’s not about holier than thou it’s about human decency, and that’s before we get into them murdering journalists.

If we murdered journalists in our country or were overtly sexist and oppressive towards wonencto the extent that Saudis are I would have zero problems with somebody coming from another country and pointing this out, so speak for yourself on that one too.

Islam automatically puts 50% of the population straight in the bin. Born a girl? Sorry, do as you are told without redress.



It’s not the final, in alterable word of god, it’s the alter ego of Mohammed seeking to strength his own power base within his followers in a 7th century culture that was in the midst of a conflict.

[Goku]

metallilad, on 21 October 2021 - 10:07 PM, said:

Goku. You just said that I speak for myself which makes it out to be my point of view when all I have done is asked a question. I understand that you must feel quite passionate about their way of life and that it upsets you. But it is their way of life and just because you think it's wrong it doesn't mean it's wrong in their eyes.
So I'll ask the question again.
What does their beliefs have anything to do with them running a football club in our country?
Do we see ourselves as the good guys and them as the baddies?
Or are we just being holier than thou?

The New Nazi Party has taken over Arsenal FC.. The New Nazi Party hate Jews, in fact they round them up in gas chambers in their home country and slaughter them. Presumably you have no issues with them buying a football club in the UK, and if we try and stop them taking over a football club in the UK you would pose similar questions asking if we are being holier than thou and seeing ourselves as goodies and them baddies? After all, it is their way of life and just because we might think the wanton slaughter of Jews is wrong and we might feel passionately about the mistreatment of people in their country based on arbitrary characteristics, it doesn’t make it wrong in their eyes.

[Mr Mercury]

Goku, on 22 October 2021 - 05:18 AM, said:

The New Nazi Party has taken over Arsenal FC.. The New Nazi Party hate Jews, in fact they round them up in gas chambers in their home country and slaughter them. Presumably you have no issues with them buying a football club in the UK, and if we try and stop them taking over a football club in the UK you would pose similar questions asking if we are being holier than thou and seeing ourselves as goodies and them baddies? After all, it is their way of life and just because we might think the wanton slaughter of Jews is wrong and we might feel passionately about the mistreatment of people in their country based on arbitrary characteristics, it doesn’t make it wrong in their eyes.

But that would be a political group taking over a club.
Not that I agree with either the Saudi buyout or indeed the Watar World Cup.

[Goku]

Mr Mercury, on 22 October 2021 - 06:42 AM, said:

But that would be a political group taking over a club.
Not that I agree with either the Saudi buyout or indeed the Watar World Cup.

Semantics. Sub the political group for a country whose government and general ethos aligns with the Nazi party.

[Mr Mercury]

Mr Mercury, on 22 October 2021 - 06:42 AM, said:

But that would be a political group taking over a club.
Not that I agree with either the Saudi buyout or indeed the Qatar World Cup.

[metallilad]

Goku, on 22 October 2021 - 07:06 AM, said:

Semantics. Sub the political group for a country whose government and general ethos aligns with the Nazi party.

Its over enthusing a point to justify your point of view, which is fine. If you feel that way then fair enough, I'm not saying your wrong to feel that way. Although it feels as though you think I'm wrong for not having the same point of view and that I should also want the new owners chased out of town.

[Goku]

metallilad, on 22 October 2021 - 08:03 AM, said:

Its over enthusing a point to justify your point of view, which is fine. If you feel that way then fair enough, I'm not saying your wrong to feel that way. Although it feels as though you think I'm wrong for not having the same point of view and that I should also want the new owners chased out of town.

It's just a more severe version of what is happening. Where do you personally draw the line? Are women being treated as second hand citizens and the slaughter of dissidents acceptable but killing based on ethnicity/religion unacceptable? You must have a point where you say 'this is too far'.

[metallilad]

Goku, on 22 October 2021 - 08:54 AM, said:

It's just a more severe version of what is happening. Where do you personally draw the line? Are women being treated as second hand citizens and the slaughter of dissidents acceptable but killing based on ethnicity/religion unacceptable? You must have a point where you say 'this is too far'.

Goku. Your trying to get me into an argument that I was never making a point about.
I'm not getting drawn into that.

But what makes you think that because their countries beliefs are what they are that they shouldn't be allowed to run a business in our country?

[Goku]

metallilad, on 22 October 2021 - 09:06 AM, said:

Goku. Your trying to get me into an argument that I was never making a point about.
I'm not getting drawn into that.

But what makes you think that because their countries beliefs are what they are that they shouldn't be allowed to run a business in our country?

You made a point about us seeing things different and being holier than thou, so I asked you to tell me where you draw the line. Presumably you wouldn't let this hypothetical country with Nazi beliefs buy a football club in the UK but you seem quite happy for the Saudis to, so where is the line drawn? I'm not saying you can't draw a line, I'm asking where your breaking point is.

To answer your question; countries shouldn't run football clubs full stop.

[metallilad]

Goku, on 22 October 2021 - 10:14 AM, said:

You made a point about us seeing things different and being holier than thou, so I asked you to tell me where you draw the line. Presumably you wouldn't let this hypothetical country with Nazi beliefs buy a football club in the UK but you seem quite happy for the Saudis to, so where is the line drawn? I'm not saying you can't draw a line, I'm asking where your breaking point is.

To answer your question; countries shouldn't run football clubs full stop.

And I never made a point about us being holier than thou.

I asked a question.

[Goku]

metallilad, on 22 October 2021 - 10:17 AM, said:

And I never made a point about us being holier than thou.

I asked a question.

Fair enough

holier-than-thou
[həʊlɪəðənˈðaʊ]
ADJECTIVE
characterized by an attitude of moral superiority.

Yes, we have moral superiority over the Saudis so I suppose we are being holier-than-thou but that's not a bad thing in this instance, clearly.

[Jud]

As our Goku presented a good analogy but found it rankled some with the cross-over into politics rather than nation, hows this one fit? If Newcastle had been taken over by a certain Kim Jong Un...would it be acceptable to judge then? Is the North Korean regime ripe for judgement? Rightly or wrongly, I'm not big on national pride as a concept. I feel that being lucky enough to have been born in a particular nation is something to appreciate and be thankful for, hugely, but not really something to celebrate as if you had anything to do with it. As such, I tend to (again, rightly or wrongly) see people as equals so regardless of whereabouts on this planet you hail from and regardless of what deity you choose to worship, atrocities are atrocities for me. Put it this way, if we'd been taken over by Gaddafi rather than the CFSS back in the day, I wouldn't have been giddy about silverware. I'd have become a Matlock fan.

[dim view]

Goku, on 22 October 2021 - 10:14 AM, said:

You made a point about us seeing things different and being holier than thou, so I asked you to tell me where you draw the line. Presumably you wouldn't let this hypothetical country with Nazi beliefs buy a football club in the UK but you seem quite happy for the Saudis to, so where is the line drawn? I'm not saying you can't draw a line, I'm asking where your breaking point is.

To answer your question; countries shouldn't run football clubs full stop.

Why do people overcomplicate things?
You draw the line at whatever the rules set by the ruling body state. If they are subjective then then bludddy well shouldn't be.

If Blatter and Platini formed a partnership, would they be allowed to buy?

[Benno Spire]

Mick McCarthy gone at Cardiff

[DerbySpireite59]

Goku, on 22 October 2021 - 05:18 AM, said:

The New Nazi Party has taken over Arsenal FC.. The New Nazi Party hate Jews, in fact they round them up in gas chambers in their home country and slaughter them. Presumably you have no issues with them buying a football club in the UK, and if we try and stop them taking over a football club in the UK you would pose similar questions asking if we are being holier than thou and seeing ourselves as goodies and them baddies? After all, it is their way of life and just because we might think the wanton slaughter of Jews is wrong and we might feel passionately about the mistreatment of people in their country based on arbitrary characteristics, it doesn’t make it wrong in their eyes.

Was that intentional? 😆 Arsenal's main rival is Tottenham, the self named Yid Army.

[Goku]

DerbySpireite57, on 23 October 2021 - 08:26 PM, said:

Was that intentional? 😆 Arsenal's main rival is Tottenham, the self named Yid Army.

It was, well done

[Johnnyspireite7]

Sword of Damocles hanging by a thread at Old Trafford over Solskjaer, Getting battered by Liverpool might be the final cut!