[isleaiw1]

So, after the by election in Hartlepool and the early signs from the council elections, is this the end of Labour as the party of the "working classes"? Are they now the party of the young and the socialist metropolitans?

Discuss....

[Search & Destroy]

I think we need a decent protest party to keep the Tories on the straight and narrow

[azul]

I’d say, probably not

[isleaiw1]

Search and Destroy, on 07 May 2021 - 08:36 AM, said:

I think we need a decent protest party to keep the Tories on the straight and narrow

No we need a good credible opposition to do that, we've had too many years of a protest party....

[isleaiw1]

azul, on 07 May 2021 - 08:43 AM, said:

I’d say, probably not

Any good reason or heart over head? They have been humiliated in Hartlepool, seem to be losing seats in the local elections, and that against probably the most morally bankrupt PM in living memory.....

So what do you think will save them? Apart for Boris being Boris of course... or Gove taking over...!

[CFC91]

isleaiw1, on 07 May 2021 - 08:26 AM, said:

So, after the by election in Hartlepool and the early signs from the council elections, is this the end of Labour as the party of the "working classes"? Are they now the party of the young and the socialist metropolitans?

Discuss....

Early council results look to show a blue wave of Leave voting constituencies sticking with the Tories...Labours fence sitting and traditional Labour, leave voting, constituencies ignorance of the electorate as thick or racist or ‘vote loaning’ has cost them dearly. Jobs on to win them back now

[dtp]

Search and Destroy, on 07 May 2021 - 08:36 AM, said:

I think we need a decent protest party to keep the Tories on the straight and narrow

I say that is exactly what is wrong with the Party.

A "Protest" Party needs something to "protest" about which is normally the people making decisions.

Who does a "Protest" Party "protest" about if it is in power?

If Labour ever wants to win an election and have the power to make decisions it needs to stop protesting and start telling the electorate exactly what they stand for and what they would do if in power. And, that doesn't mean just saying "no" when t'other lot say "yes".

[CFC91]

Quaker, on 07 May 2021 - 08:58 AM, said:

I've been saying this for years. They literally have nothing to offer apart from bleating about what everyone else is doing wrong.

I think that’s indicative on here of the die in the wool Labour on here. Labour might well be appeasing it’s members but it’s certainly not doing it for the people who matter - the millions of eligible voters.

Pointing the fingers about what the Tories have said, done, covered up, not done etc will not win Labour votes.

[azul]

isleaiw1, on 07 May 2021 - 08:50 AM, said:

Any good reason or heart over head? They have been humiliated in Hartlepool, seem to be losing seats in the local elections, and that against probably the most morally bankrupt PM in living memory.....

So what do you think will save them? Apart for Boris being Boris of course... or Gove taking over...!

You’ve answer 60% of your own question in that last paragraph.

I’d expect Labour to get some policies, any are better than none. I hope for a change in outlook/mood from the electorate as the post Brexit/Covid world develops.

However, I’m expecting an election this time next year. Not sure how it will be justified but that won’t help Labour

[azul]

CFC91, on 07 May 2021 - 09:15 AM, said:

I think that’s indicative on here of the die in the wool Labour on here. Labour might well be appeasing it’s members but it’s certainly not doing it for the people who matter - the millions of eligible voters.

Pointing the fingers about what the Tories have said, done, covered up, not done etc will not win Labour votes.

It is a massive port of the equation

The industrial situation toppled Callaghan
Sleaze and corruption toppled Major
The banking situation toppled Brown
Sleaze and corruption toppled [insert here]

That is almost poetic

[Search & Destroy]

Jobs jobs jobs.....except the only ones Labour care about are the one that can be “unionised”

[isleaiw1]

azul, on 07 May 2021 - 09:23 AM, said:

You’ve answer 60% of your own question in that last paragraph.

I’d expect Labour to get some policies, any are better than none. I hope for a change in outlook/mood from the electorate as the post Brexit/Covid world develops.

However, I’m expecting an election this time next year. Not sure how it will be justified but that won’t help Labour

I hope that they dont decide that waiting for the others to mess up is good enough as its likely they will manage to shoot themselves in the foot first!

They need to forget Brexit, its done. They need to find policies that dont scare people in their desire to impress the radicals. If I read the manifesto from the last election there will be one good phrase or ideal but then words beneath it that scare the pants off a person who works in business. They need to keep the social and lose the radical.

The only reason there will be an early election is so BoZo can do something Cameron couldnt before he steps down. But I expect him to step down before another election (or maybe that is just wishful thinking)....

[CFC91]

azul, on 07 May 2021 - 09:33 AM, said:

It is a massive port of the equation

The industrial situation toppled Callaghan
Sleaze and corruption toppled Major
The banking situation toppled Brown
Sleaze and corruption toppled [insert here]

That is almost poetic

I’d prefer it if strong leadership, vote winning policies and a strong Labour topple [insert here] instead of waiting for them to trip over themselves.

[azul]

isleaiw1, on 07 May 2021 - 09:40 AM, said:

I hope that they dont decide that waiting for the others to mess up is good enough as its likely they will manage to shoot themselves in the foot first!

They need to forget Brexit, its done. They need to find policies that dont scare people in their desire to impress the radicals. If I read the manifesto from the last election there will be one good phrase or ideal but then words beneath it that scare the pants off a person who works in business. They need to keep the social and lose the radical.

The only reason there will be an early election is so BoZo can do something Cameron couldnt before he steps down. But I expect him to step down before another election (or maybe that is just wishful thinking)....

And I hope they don’t rely on that either

Brexit is done in name but the hard part, the repercussions are just beginning and it is how Labour respond to those that’s important, likewise the Covid fallout.

The economic situation would be the driver for an early election, The latest forecasts (assuming Covid is under control) are for a major economic bounce in 2021 that will recover much of what was lost in 2020, before slowing down in 2022.

CFC91, on 07 May 2021 - 09:47 AM, said:

I’d prefer it if strong leadership, vote winning policies and a strong Labour topple [insert here] instead of waiting for them to trip over themselves.

So would I, but I don’t think it works that way as a rule

[SpireiteFitzy]

CFC91, on 07 May 2021 - 09:47 AM, said:

I’d prefer it if strong leadership, vote winning policies and a strong Labour topple [insert here] instead of waiting for them to trip over themselves.

This. Labour have become so obsessed with trying to topple Boris that they've not stopped to realise that no one gives a toss about him. People care about themselves, and if your not going to offer them clear and concise policies about how you are going to make their lives better they simply will not vote for you, regardless of how corrupt and rotten the current PM may be.

The left just are not learning. You don't win by attacking and slagging off the right, they feed off that hate and use it to rouse their followers by saying look at how the metropolitan elite are bullying us and everyone who votes for us. But left leaning people just can't help themselves, the bait is set and they go in full guns blazing attacking everything and everyone who does not agree with them and therefore just make resistance to their message even stronger.

Someone needs to take control of that party, just forget about the damn Tories and start creating a manifesto with appealing policy and broad appeal to both the working class and younger people and use that to defeat the Tories, because it'll work a damn sight better than attacking Boris.

[azul]

SpireiteFitzy, on 07 May 2021 - 10:00 AM, said:

This. Labour have become so obsessed with trying to topple Boris that they've not stopped to realise that no one gives a toss about him. People care about themselves, and if your not going to offer them clear and concise policies about how you are going to make their lives better they simply will not vote for you, regardless of how corrupt and rotten the current PM may be.

The left just are not learning. You don't win by attacking and slagging off the right, they feed off that hate and use it to rouse their followers by saying look at how the metropolitan elite are bullying us and everyone who votes for us. But left leaning people just can't help themselves, the bait is set and they go in full guns blazing attacking everything and everyone who does not agree with them and therefore just make resistance to their message even stronger.

Someone needs to take control of that party, just forget about the damn Tories and start creating a manifesto with appealing policy and broad appeal to both the working class and younger people and use that to defeat the Tories, because it'll work a damn sight better than attacking Boris.

It’s not just about policies - it is about presenting them in an attractive way.

What we need is a Dominic Cummings

Your right though - the Tories will be their own undoing

This post has been edited by azul: 07 May 2021 - 10:07 AM

[isleaiw1]

SpireiteFitzy, on 07 May 2021 - 10:00 AM, said:

This. Labour have become so obsessed with trying to topple Boris that they've not stopped to realise that no one gives a toss about him. People care about themselves, and if your not going to offer them clear and concise policies about how you are going to make their lives better they simply will not vote for you, regardless of how corrupt and rotten the current PM may be.

The left just are not learning. You don't win by attacking and slagging off the right, they feed off that hate and use it to rouse their followers by saying look at how the metropolitan elite are bullying us and everyone who votes for us. But left leaning people just can't help themselves, the bait is set and they go in full guns blazing attacking everything and everyone who does not agree with them and therefore just make resistance to their message even stronger.

Someone needs to take control of that party, just forget about the damn Tories and start creating a manifesto with appealing policy and broad appeal to both the working class and younger people and use that to defeat the Tories, because it'll work a damn sight better than attacking Boris.

And the thing is that message could have been written about Scargill and his failings in the miners strike. 40 years later they still fall into the same traps.....