[fishini]

Is there room for faith in a world of science?

[valemadness]

A belief that there may be more to life and death than is known, maybe.
A belief that god created Adam and Eve, so evolution doesn't exist, no

[dalekpete]

If it any conviction that there are powers that can suspend the laws of the universe then that is not compatible with reason; reason is essential to science.

Religion (if it suggests an all powerful deity or deities) is wholly at odds with science.

Science says that even when you have all the evidence there is still room for doubt; faith says that even with an absolute lack of evidence you still must believe.

[Wooden Spoon]

fishini, on 16 April 2015 - 09:42 PM, said:

Is there room for faith in a world of science?

IMO no.

Science is based on evidence. If there isn't any evidence, then an idea doesn't get support. Science is based on reason, logic and being able reproduce results in a controlled way.

Religion is none of that. Indeed, if you were to look for any evidence to support religious beliefs, in an open minded way, it would not be long before you deduced the creator god of the major faiths cannot possibly exist.

Religion is based on faith. Faith is believing something exists simply because you have been told it exists. That's the reason "God" is such a vengeful and spiteful entity. Kill your son to prove your loyalty and faith. You will burn in hell if you don't worship me. etc etc.

Fear is the only way to make someone believe in something that there is no evidence for.

Hell fire is your fate if you don't believe.

[Valley Blues]

I'm sure there will be a scientist or two out there somewhere who are regular at the local church / mosque / temple and so on. So to answer the question, yes.

[fishini]

a kick in the balls, on 17 April 2015 - 05:31 PM, said:

IMO no.

Science is based on evidence. If there isn't any evidence, then an idea doesn't get support. Science is based on reason, logic and being able reproduce results in a controlled way.

Religion is none of that. Indeed, if you were to look for any evidence to support religious beliefs, in an open minded way, it would not be long before you deduced the creator god of the major faiths cannot possibly exist.

Religion is based on faith. Faith is believing something exists simply because you have been told it exists. That's the reason "God" is such a vengeful and spiteful entity. Kill your son to prove your loyalty and faith. You will burn in hell if you don't worship me. etc etc.

Fear is the only way to make someone believe in something that there is no evidence for.

Hell fire is your fate if you don't believe.

Strange that scientists really don't know where everything started from. They have ideas and theories to explain how it all started but no real evidence. They tell us that everything came from nothing in the big bang. Do the scientists apply fear to people in an attempt to make us believe in something that has no evidence? To believe what they say I suppose you have to have faith in them and their version of the unknown, without real evidence. As for God being a vengeful and spiteful entity I have to agree. That said it is debatable which has killed the most people God or Science. If there is no God then science will ultimately destroy the world. IMO Religion and Science are not worlds apart and without doubt there are many scientists who are very religious. So IMO science and faith have always and always will be able to exist in the same world. Religion and Science are not the problems and if both were used correctly then the world would be a much better place to live in. It is mans misuse of them both that is the problem. Man has always used Religion and science as ways for waging wars and and mass killings.
May I add that I am not religious at all but I do believe there is something after this life whatever that maybe. I suppose neither religion or science will ever be able to prove this one way or another. So I will just have to have faith

[Wooden Spoon]

They say the theory is the Big Bang, they don't say the Big Bang is absolutely unequivocaly correct and if you doubt us we will stone you to death

[fishini]

a kick in the balls, on 17 April 2015 - 06:33 PM, said:

They say the theory is the Big Bang, they don't say the Big Bang is absolutely unequivocaly correct and if you doubt us we will stone you to death

I don't believe in God as don't many don't and I have not been threatened with being stoned to death. Have you?

[Wooden Spoon]

fishini, on 17 April 2015 - 06:57 PM, said:

I don't believe in God as don't many don't and I have not been threatened with being stoned to death. Have you?

Don't talk b@llox




Throughout history people have been stoned to death, burnt at the stake, boiled in oil and so on for defying religious fanaticism.


This hasn't been done in the name of science

This post has been edited by a kick in the balls: 17 April 2015 - 07:01 PM

[isleaiw1]

fishini, on 16 April 2015 - 09:42 PM, said:

Is there room for faith in a world of science?

A friend of my mums, a true gent ex teacher at netherthorpe now departed, was a member of the church of Christian Scientology, which combined the study of science with Christianity. Sadly I never took the time to understand it ! They did have a place at the top of sheff rd but closed a few years ago.

Ian

[dalekpete]

fishini, on 17 April 2015 - 06:57 PM, said:

I don't believe in God as don't many don't and I have not been threatened with being stoned to death. Have you?

No but I have been threatened with burning in hell! Luckily I am a rationalist and there is no evidence this will come to pass but I feel sorry for children and more vulnerable people that are told this.

[fishini]

a kick in the balls, on 17 April 2015 - 06:59 PM, said:

Don't talk b@llox




Throughout history people have been stoned to death, burnt at the stake, boiled in oil and so on for defying religious fanaticism.


This hasn't been done in the name of science

Millions killed in two world wars including 100 000's by 2 atomic bombs. All created by scientists just because they could. All methods of warfare have been created by science not religion. Like I said before nothing wrong with religion or science it is mans misuse of them both that has always been the problem. Don't forget there are many forms of religion that are peaceful and benign just like science

[Heavy_Soul]

isleaiw1, on 17 April 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

A friend of my mums, a true gent ex teacher at netherthorpe now departed, was a member of the church of Christian Scientology, which combined the study of science with Christianity. Sadly I never took the time to understand it ! They did have a place at the top of sheff rd but closed a few years ago.

Ian

Do you mind me aski the surname of the teacher?

[dalekpete]

isleaiw1, on 17 April 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

A friend of my mums, a true gent ex teacher at netherthorpe now departed, was a member of the church of Christian Scientology, which combined the study of science with Christianity. Sadly I never took the time to understand it ! They did have a place at the top of sheff rd but closed a few years ago.

Ian

Christian Science affirms that the spiritual world is real and the physical world is an illusion. This means all earthly problems, including illness, can be solved by prayer. You couldn't get further away from science!

[Wooden Spoon]

fishini, on 17 April 2015 - 07:13 PM, said:

Millions killed in two world wars including 100 000's by 2 atomic bombs. All created by scientists just because they could. All methods of warfare have been created by science not religion. Like I said before nothing wrong with religion or science it is mans misuse of them both that has always been the problem. Don't forget there are many forms of religion that are peaceful and benign just like science

And they dropped the bombs because people refused to accept science did they?

[Wooden Spoon]

fishini, on 17 April 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

Strange that scientists really don't know where everything started from. They have ideas and theories to explain how it all started but no real evidence. They tell us that everything came from nothing in the big bang. Do the scientists apply fear to people in an attempt to make us believe in something that has no evidence? To believe what they say I suppose you have to have faith in them and their version of the unknown, without real evidence. As for God being a vengeful and spiteful entity I have to agree. That said it is debatable which has killed the most people God or Science. If there is no God then science will ultimately destroy the world. IMO Religion and Science are not worlds apart and without doubt there are many scientists who are very religious. So IMO science and faith have always and always will be able to exist in the same world. Religion and Science are not the problems and if both were used correctly then the world would be a much better place to live in. It is mans misuse of them both that is the problem. Man has always used Religion and science as ways for waging wars and and mass killings.
May I add that I am not religious at all but I do believe there is something after this life whatever that maybe. I suppose neither religion or science will ever be able to prove this one way or another. So I will just have to have faith

I think I misread this first time around....so here is another go.

The big bang. Its difficult to prove anything 100% that happened around 14,700,000,000 years ago.

However, if you look there most certainly is some evidence to support the theory. The Helium/hydrogen % relationship supports the rapid expansion idea. The back ground radiation, that is detectable in ALL directions, and creates the "hiss" on a TV that isn't tuned. Then the red shift or Doppler effect that can be seen as galaxies are expanding in space again in all directions.

This can be "reversed" and when done, it points to a single "place" in space-time. Hence the theory of the singularity.

After that it gets tricky because the obvious question is where did this come from? How did this begin? I don't know, nor does anyone else for sure. Science has more questions than answers - that's why it works, it questions things and compels those few very very clever people to find an answer.

Our current laws of physics don't work in some extreme conditions. Quantum physics struggles to unite with the current laws of physics. Hence the search for a unified theory. Why are the 4 forces not balanced? Why is gravity so very weak while the 2 nuclear forces are infinitely stronger? We learn more and more, as each new generation of superbrains expands on the knowledge of those before them. Newtons theory, general relativity, the Higgs field and so on.

Maybe, in the end, the black hole at the centre of a galaxy devours the whole galaxy until, in the end, only black holes exist. These, through gravity then devour each other until there is just one super black hole, infinitely dense. Maybe, then this becomes so dense, that all the matter in the whole universe is compressed into a space so infinitely small that it explodes, in a big bang, starting the whole thing off again. Or the "multiverse" idea, where there are dozens of dimensions, and each universe is existent on a membrane within this "multiverse"!, and the "touching" of these causes a big bang to start the whole thing off again. Its certainly a couple of interesting ideas and something beyond my mental capacity.




Compare to the religious teachings.

God created the earth in 7 days, around 6000 years ago. and the world is how its always been. Fossil records are dismissed as fakes placed by the devil, or creatures destroyed by the biblical floods.....dating of strata again is dismissed as evidence to provide dates over millions of year. Evolution is dismissed despite all evidence while creation theory is accepted, simply because some unknown men wrote the book of Genesis several thousand years ago. No evidence to support it, but millions around the world believe it without question.

Religion demands blind obedience and blind faith without a shred of evidence to support anything. Science demands open thought, and the need to question everything. One is progressive, the other isn't. Galileo was imprisoned for years for daring to suggest that the earth wasn't at the centre of the universe.

In America, today, there are extreme Christians who refuse to take injured children to hospital for treatment, believing that prayer alone will cure and heal. When it does not, they blame themselves and the injured child for not praying hard enough.

One demands non believers are to be killed, and has done for hundreds, if not thousands of years, the other askes for enlightenment and knowledge. The 2 are not compatible because one may eventually dispel and disprove the other.

[Westbars Spireite]

isleaiw1, on 17 April 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

A friend of my mums, a true gent ex teacher at netherthorpe now departed, was a member of the church of Christian Scientology, which combined the study of science with Christianity. Sadly I never took the time to understand it ! They did have a place at the top of sheff rd but closed a few years ago.

Ian

Was it housed in an old, shallow house on the same side as the college? I wondered what that was.

[isleaiw1]

Screamadelica, on 17 April 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

Do you mind me aski the surname of the teacher?

Harrison - many many years since he taught there

Westbars Spireite, on 18 April 2015 - 06:21 AM, said:

Was it housed in an old, shallow house on the same side as the college? I wondered what that was.

It was!

[frearsghost]

Evidence for the big bang is overwhelming and indisputable. The universe is still expanding from the explosion and the rate expansion can be measured and enables the age of our universe to be calculated.
The Hubble Telescope regularly takes pictures of stars being born and dying all regulated by the laws of physics.

[fishini]

frearsghost, on 18 April 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

Evidence for the big bang is overwhelming and indisputable. The universe is still expanding from the explosion and the rate expansion can be measured and enables the age of our universe to be calculated.
The Hubble Telescope regularly takes pictures of stars being born and dying all regulated by the laws of physics.

They have evidence of the big bang which is just a theory at this moment but have they yet to explain how everything came from nothing? What was there before the start of the universe?