[firedodger]

Skywalker, on 29 March 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

I’ve previously voted Labour and did so at the last election despite not being too impressed with Brown as leader. My vote was based more around local issues and wanting Toby Perkins as MP for Chesterfield. I’m in a similar position this time as I can’t warm to Miliband as leader as I feel he is out of his depth and so are the majority of the shadow cabinet.

We met Perkins on a pensions rally once, came across as a complete tool. Reckoned to me making notes on the conversation it turned out he was basically just doodling, and half the time with an empty pen.

[isleaiw1]

MDCCCLXVI, on 31 March 2015 - 07:08 PM, said:

To turn that on it's head, though, what does it say about Cameron/the Tories when they couldn't achieve a majority despite Brown's unpopularity, the financial situation and the majority of Fleet Street hurling lies at Labour on a daily basis? And what does is say about them now when they still look unlikely to do so despite only the name of the Labour leader changing?

Then uncertainty? Y'mean like a minority Tory government constantly at war with itself over a Euro referendum that might happen at some unspecified point and for vague reasons? A minority Tory government at the mercy of it's own right wing, euro-hating backbenchers and a handful of UKIP xenophobes?

Well me and my missus are both the 'hard working, do the right thing' kinda people politicians always refer to. Yet we're certainly worse off under the Tories. By the way, Ian; were you the 'Ian' that called-up Radio Five the other week venting anti-Labour bile? He certainly has a northern accent and said stuff similar to your's on here.

To your first point, absolutely. They are both as bad as each other in that not only have they failed to beat a weak opponent but they have left the door open for others to join in the race. Neither inspire me with what they say or do.

Nope, not me. Don't listen to radio 5 and certainly wouldn't call in about politics. As for what I talk, I am not sure anyone else would say the same. I believe it is time for a fundamental overhaul of loads of things - starting with tax. How dare we claim basic rate income tax is 20% when you pay NI before you start paying tax - and NI is just a tax under another name but bizarrely structured. So scrap NI and restructure income tax so it starts at 12k and rises progressively from 10% to 50% between 12k and 120k.

Then change how VAT is applied - probably have more stuff at 5% which is not really a luxury like clothes but up the rate on real luxuries like jewellery, computer games etc to 25%.

Streamline the management and bureaucracy in the nHS and spend the money on 7 day usage of the expensive assets that are partly used.

Allow pooling of tax affairs - the amount of tax paid by a family shoukdnt vary according to whether one person or two people earn it.

Replace council tax with tax on income, so amount you pay depends on what you earn not what you invested.

Increase tax on property profits - danger is rents would go up but may also burst the buy to let bubble.

Crack down on loopholes abused by the self employed - I am one and an accountant so know they exist. How would be hard but in these computerised days the ability to analyse the data submitted against centralised standards shouldn't be impossible. Focus especially on cash based businesses and require data on weekly or monthly revenue.

There is lots more - much of it way too radical for a bunch who spend too long trying to win votes and not enough solving problems!

Ian

Ps sorry that you aren't better off than in 2010, stats suggest that most people in full time work are - with the possible exception of those who have moved from lower rate tax to higher rate tax as a result of the move in bindings to compensate for increase in tax free amount.

[Middle East]

isleaiw1, on 01 April 2015 - 08:25 PM, said:

To your first point, absolutely. They are both as bad as each other in that not only have they failed to beat a weak opponent but they have left the door open for others to join in the race. Neither inspire me with what they say or do.

Nope, not me. Don't listen to radio 5 and certainly wouldn't call in about politics. As for what I talk, I am not sure anyone else would say the same. I believe it is time for a fundamental overhaul of loads of things - starting with tax. How dare we claim basic rate income tax is 20% when you pay NI before you start paying tax - and NI is just a tax under another name but bizarrely structured. So scrap NI and restructure income tax so it starts at 12k and rises progressively from 10% to 50% between 12k and 120k.

Then change how VAT is applied - probably have more stuff at 5% which is not really a luxury like clothes but up the rate on real luxuries like jewellery, computer games etc to 25%.

Streamline the management and bureaucracy in the nHS and spend the money on 7 day usage of the expensive assets that are partly used.

Allow pooling of tax affairs - the amount of tax paid by a family shoukdnt vary according to whether one person or two people earn it.

Replace council tax with tax on income, so amount you pay depends on what you earn not what you invested.

Increase tax on property profits - danger is rents would go up but may also burst the buy to let bubble.

Crack down on loopholes abused by the self employed - I am one and an accountant so know they exist. How would be hard but in these computerised days the ability to analyse the data submitted against centralised standards shouldn't be impossible. Focus especially on cash based businesses and require data on weekly or monthly revenue.

There is lots more - much of it way too radical for a bunch who spend too long trying to win votes and not enough solving problems!

Ian

Ps sorry that you aren't better off than in 2010, stats suggest that most people in full time work are - with the possible exception of those who have moved from lower rate tax to higher rate tax as a result of the move in bindings to compensate for increase in tax free amount.

As an accountant you will know you can prove anything with stats and I like another 4 million public sector workers am most definately NOT better off than I was in 2010!

I have had a 1% rise in 5 years....so David Cameron and his lickspittle public schoolboy chum Osbourne can stick their 'you're all better off' spin firmly up their jacksy!

You have however made some other very interesting points which would make for a much fairer tax system!

This post has been edited by Middle East: 01 April 2015 - 11:02 PM

[isleaiw1]

Middle East, on 01 April 2015 - 11:00 PM, said:

As an accountant you will know you can prove anything with stats and I like another 4 million public sector workers am most definately NOT better off than I was in 2010!

I have had a 1% rise in 5 years....so David Cameron and his lickspittle public schoolboy chum Osbourne can stick their 'you're all better off' spin firmly up their jacksy!

You have however made some other very interesting points which would make for a much fairer tax system!

Being better off isnt just about payrise though - you will be earning 3k more broadly tax free (but not NI!) so thats about £600 a year or £50 a month in your takehome - if you arent one of the people who had it clawed back through moving the 40% rate down to compensate.....

I managed a 30% pay cut in 2010 before the last election so i am a little better off - even if I have had to do a Tebbett and get on my bike (well car, it would take a while to do 260 miles a day on a bike!) to earn it....

My brother has had 0% in 5 years in the private sector. He doesnt get such a good pension either or as good job security - come to think of it neither do i, redundant three times in 8 years between 97 and 2005, and my nice pension killed in the early 2000s....

Ian

[Skywalker]

firedodger, on 01 April 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

We met Perkins on a pensions rally once, came across as a complete tool. Reckoned to me making notes on the conversation it turned out he was basically just doodling, and half the time with an empty pen.

So based on the above you won't be voting Labour then......?

[Wooden Spoon]

isleaiw1, on 01 April 2015 - 08:25 PM, said:

I believe it is time for a fundamental overhaul of loads of things - starting with tax. How dare we claim basic rate income tax is 20% when you pay NI before you start paying tax - and NI is just a tax under another name but bizarrely structured. So scrap NI and restructure income tax so it starts at 12k and rises progressively from 10% to 50% between 12k and 120k.

Then change how VAT is applied - probably have more stuff at 5% which is not really a luxury like clothes but up the rate on real luxuries like jewellery, computer games etc to 25%.

Streamline the management and bureaucracy in the nHS and spend the money on 7 day usage of the expensive assets that are partly used.

Replace council tax with tax on income.

Increase tax on property profits - danger is rents would go up but may also burst the buy to let bubble.

Crack down on loopholes abused by the self employed - I am one and an accountant so know they exist. How would be hard but in these computerised days the ability to analyse the data submitted against centralised standards shouldn't be impossible. Focus especially on cash based businesses and require data on weekly or monthly revenue.

I agree with the above - and close tax loop holes the likes of amazon have exploited and your about there.

Force councils to build social housing with the money from selling off housing stock - there wouldn't be the demand for private housing so rents wouldn't go up, local people can be employed and you also boost the local economy.

[SpireiteFitzy]

Skywalker, on 29 March 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

I’ve previously voted Labour and did so at the last election despite not being too impressed with Brown as leader. My vote was based more around local issues and wanting Toby Perkins as MP for Chesterfield. I’m in a similar position this time as I can’t warm to Miliband as leader as I feel he is out of his depth and so are the majority of the shadow cabinet.

That's precisely what I'm doing this time. I wouldn't be going anywhere near Milliband in this election if not for the fact that Natascha Engel is such a brilliant MP for our local community. I've had to think for a long time whether voting for her and risking putting him in No 10 is worth it but seeing the options we have on show tonight has firmly pushed me into looking for the best interests of my local community. I'd never vote Labour just cause they are Labour though.

[Westbars Spireite]

Be careful when you make any political Tweets in the run up to the election. I had to block someone who wanted to use me as his chance to recite Milliband's full manifesto.

This post has been edited by Westbars Spireite: 03 April 2015 - 07:54 AM

[Search & Destroy]

Bit of a farce really, DC obviously wanted the minority parties there to dilute the debate which was pretty much non existent.

If I was Welsh I'd vote for the Welsh girl though.

This post has been edited by Search and Destroy: 03 April 2015 - 08:14 AM

[firedodger]

Skywalker, on 02 April 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

So based on the above you won't be voting Labour then......?

Mate you said you voted labour because you wanted Perkins as your MP, I said based on my own very close personal experience he gave me a massive reason not to trust him one little bit.
As for who I would vote for is richard Pryor standing for none of the above?
Through my life there have been labour, conservative and coalition governments and pretty much the same stuff happens whoever is in power taxes go up, stuff costs more and supporters of 'the other lot' always claim we would be better off if their party were in power. If labour had a different leader there wouldn't even be a point in having an election they would absolutely walk it, but it speaks volumes of Ed the red that they aren't miles ahead, and that there is a very good chance we will get another five years of conservative government.
In the run up to the last election I was listening to one of the TV political 'experts' he was saying that the 2010-15 government was a poisoned chalice, that the countries finances were in such a terrible mess that whoever came to power would have to make such drastic and unpopular cuts that they would most likely not get back into power in a generation. Well here we are 2015 and the B****Y Tories have made those unpopular financial decisions yet labour are such a B****Y shambles they struggle to get a lead in the opinion polls.
My vote as yet is undecided because I don't see much good in any of them, maybe I'm just better off saving my time turning up and doing my job the next day, paying what I'm supposed to pay, and taking home what they give me at the end of the month, conscience clear none of them have my support.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

isleaiw1, on 01 April 2015 - 08:25 PM, said:

To your first point, absolutely. They are both as bad as each other in that not only have they failed to beat a weak opponent but they have left the door open for others to join in the race. Neither inspire me with what they say or do.

Nope, not me. Don't listen to radio 5 and certainly wouldn't call in about politics. As for what I talk, I am not sure anyone else would say the same. I believe it is time for a fundamental overhaul of loads of things - starting with tax. How dare we claim basic rate income tax is 20% when you pay NI before you start paying tax - and NI is just a tax under another name but bizarrely structured. So scrap NI and restructure income tax so it starts at 12k and rises progressively from 10% to 50% between 12k and 120k.

Then change how VAT is applied - probably have more stuff at 5% which is not really a luxury like clothes but up the rate on real luxuries like jewellery, computer games etc to 25%.

Streamline the management and bureaucracy in the nHS and spend the money on 7 day usage of the expensive assets that are partly used.

Allow pooling of tax affairs - the amount of tax paid by a family shoukdnt vary according to whether one person or two people earn it.

Replace council tax with tax on income, so amount you pay depends on what you earn not what you invested.

Increase tax on property profits - danger is rents would go up but may also burst the buy to let bubble.

Crack down on loopholes abused by the self employed - I am one and an accountant so know they exist. How would be hard but in these computerised days the ability to analyse the data submitted against centralised standards shouldn't be impossible. Focus especially on cash based businesses and require data on weekly or monthly revenue.

There is lots more - much of it way too radical for a bunch who spend too long trying to win votes and not enough solving problems!

Ian

Ps sorry that you aren't better off than in 2010, stats suggest that most people in full time work are - with the possible exception of those who have moved from lower rate tax to higher rate tax as a result of the move in bindings to compensate for increase in tax free amount.

That's a very fair and interesting post, Ian.

Dunno where your stats are from, though - do they take into account the increase in VAT? That's an extra 2.5% on many essentials week after week after week, which quickly negates the rise in the personal tax allowance.

Whoever's in government will still have to address the deficit following Osbourne's quiet U-turn a couple of years ago and whilst the Tories will hammer public spending rather than ask more from the wealthy they represent, Labour will spread the pain more evenly. All the rest is, as you suggest, just waffle.

[Middle East]

isleaiw1, on 02 April 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

Being better off isnt just about payrise though - you will be earning 3k more broadly tax free (but not NI!) so thats about £600 a year or £50 a month in your takehome - if you arent one of the people who had it clawed back through moving the 40% rate down to compensate.....

I managed a 30% pay cut in 2010 before the last election so i am a little better off - even if I have had to do a Tebbett and get on my bike (well car, it would take a while to do 260 miles a day on a bike!) to earn it....

My brother has had 0% in 5 years in the private sector. He doesnt get such a good pension either or as good job security - come to think of it neither do i, redundant three times in 8 years between 97 and 2005, and my nice pension killed in the early 2000s....

Ian

Aaaaah the old daily mail public sector job security and golden pension chestnut. My department had 102,000 working for it 8 years ago it now has half that. Redundancies left right and centre and more to come. I have worked for them for 27 years and signed up for a pension after 40, which you could take at 60. This lovely government have just arbitrarily added 7 years to that, with greater contributions, less pension and will now tax your lump sum, which after working under the pressure we are put under for 49 years I will probably never live to see.....golden pension my Harris!


You can quote increased tax allowance all you like, bills have gone up, fuel has gone up, food has gone up, I know what is left in my bank account and I am well down and I squarely blame Cameron and his merry men who have consistently shafted the public sector like Thatcher did before.

Happy to swap salaries, pensions and bank accounts with you....as I am well aware what a decent accountant makes!

Oh and the comment about having it clawed back by the reduction of the 40% tax bracket shows how little you understand how much your average public servant gets. Millions of us would be very happy bunnies if we earned anywhere near that!!

A vote for the Tories means more harsh cuts to the public sector, which affects everyone when they can't get the services they want! Personally I would rather jab a pin in my eye than vote for them whatever they may say in their campaign....

[fishini]

Middle East, on 04 April 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:

Aaaaah the old daily mail public sector job security and golden pension chestnut. My department had 102,000 working for it 8 years ago it now has half that. Redundancies left right and centre and more to come. I have worked for them for 27 years and signed up for a pension after 40, which you could take at 60. This lovely government have just arbitrarily added 7 years to that, with greater contributions, less pension and will now tax your lump sum, which after working under the pressure we are put under for 49 years I will probably never live to see.....golden pension my Harris!


You can quote increased tax allowance all you like, bills have gone up, fuel has gone up, food has gone up, I know what is left in my bank account and I am well down and I squarely blame Cameron and his merry men who have consistently shafted the public sector like Thatcher did before.

Happy to swap salaries, pensions and bank accounts with you....as I am well aware what a decent accountant makes!

Oh and the comment about having it clawed back by the reduction of the 40% tax bracket shows how little you understand how much your average public servant gets. Millions of us would be very happy bunnies if we earned anywhere near that!!

A vote for the Tories means more harsh cuts to the public sector, which affects everyone when they can't get the services they want! Personally I would rather jab a pin in my eye than vote for them whatever they may say in their campaign....

Great post. Well said. Too many people live n cocoons and have little grasp on reality. They read the Tory press they listen to the crap from the offs about have well off we all are, the problem is they really believe it . Lol. the gulf between what you are told and reality is massive

[Bonnyman]

Middle East, on 04 April 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:

Aaaaah the old daily mail public sector job security and golden pension chestnut. My department had 102,000 working for it 8 years ago it now has half that. Redundancies left right and centre and more to come. I have worked for them for 27 years and signed up for a pension after 40, which you could take at 60. This lovely government have just arbitrarily added 7 years to that, with greater contributions, less pension and will now tax your lump sum, which after working under the pressure we are put under for 49 years I will probably never live to see.....golden pension my Harris!


You can quote increased tax allowance all you like, bills have gone up, fuel has gone up, food has gone up, I know what is left in my bank account and I am well down and I squarely blame Cameron and his merry men who have consistently shafted the public sector like Thatcher did before.

Happy to swap salaries, pensions and bank accounts with you....as I am well aware what a decent accountant makes!

Oh and the comment about having it clawed back by the reduction of the 40% tax bracket shows how little you understand how much your average public servant gets. Millions of us would be very happy bunnies if we earned anywhere near that!!

A vote for the Tories means more harsh cuts to the public sector, which affects everyone when they can't get the services they want! Personally I would rather jab a pin in my eye than vote for them whatever they may say in their campaign....

here , here im in the public sector and not a day goes by without talk of cuts and streamlining, just got my 2015 pension through 3 and a half more years of payments before i can retire and guess what i get less at the end add into that i transfered my private pension into my current one and thats been swallowed up its criminal, i will be voting labourbut its with no confidence , it was bad enough when prescott the turncoat was against us.

[isleaiw1]

Middle East, on 04 April 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:

Aaaaah the old daily mail public sector job security and golden pension chestnut. My department had 102,000 working for it 8 years ago it now has half that. Redundancies left right and centre and more to come. I have worked for them for 27 years and signed up for a pension after 40, which you could take at 60. This lovely government have just arbitrarily added 7 years to that, with greater contributions, less pension and will now tax your lump sum, which after working under the pressure we are put under for 49 years I will probably never live to see.....golden pension my Harris!


You can quote increased tax allowance all you like, bills have gone up, fuel has gone up, food has gone up, I know what is left in my bank account and I am well down and I squarely blame Cameron and his merry men who have consistently shafted the public sector like Thatcher did before.

Happy to swap salaries, pensions and bank accounts with you....as I am well aware what a decent accountant makes!

Oh and the comment about having it clawed back by the reduction of the 40% tax bracket shows how little you understand how much your average public servant gets. Millions of us would be very happy bunnies if we earned anywhere near that!!

A vote for the Tories means more harsh cuts to the public sector, which affects everyone when they can't get the services they want! Personally I would rather jab a pin in my eye than vote for them whatever they may say in their campaign....

Well my private sector final salary went in 2000 and now most offer matched contributions so if I put in 4% they do. A 60th final salary pension would need them to put in 18 to 20%....

Indeed there have been significant redundancies in the public sector. How many have been compulsory? My three have all been against my wishes...

Yep, I earn well. I have two degrees and a professional qualification. I also work near London currently and see very little of my family as a result - sacrifices have to be made. I am a miners son and quickly worked out that I wanted a job with career options - the trouble with many jobs in the public sector is that you often only have one choice of employer....

I will be working to 67 too!

There are people in the public sector who wen enough to be in the higher rate tax - teachers, some in the nhs, I inagine department heads at DWP....

Ian

[isleaiw1]

fishini, on 04 April 2015 - 07:23 AM, said:

Great post. Well said. Too many people live n cocoons and have little grasp on reality. They read the Tory press they listen to the crap from the offs about have well off we all are, the problem is they really believe it . Lol. the gulf between what you are told and reality is massive

I take my views from what I know and hear, I tend not to believe anything I read in any of the press (although it tends to be the mirror if I read a paper....)

An economics degree and a basic understanding that you can't spend more than you earn year after year without it resulting in disaster are the background to my views.

I am on holiday when the election takes place, so I will have to do postal vote early. Of course with the system we have in this country I am not actually voting for who I want in power but who I want to represent me locally - which is why when I lived in Bolsover I always voted Denis.... Not quite so straightforward in Chesterfield as I don't rate Perkins but don't know anything about the others, and realistically can any of the others actually win....

[isleaiw1]

MDCCCLXVI, on 03 April 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

That's a very fair and interesting post, Ian.

Dunno where your stats are from, though - do they take into account the increase in VAT? That's an extra 2.5% on many essentials week after week after week, which quickly negates the rise in the personal tax allowance.

Whoever's in government will still have to address the deficit following Osbourne's quiet U-turn a couple of years ago and whilst the Tories will hammer public spending rather than ask more from the wealthy they represent, Labour will spread the pain more evenly. All the rest is, as you suggest, just waffle.

Yep, it apparently took everything in to account, but as we all know stats can be manipulated.

I have to say I don't know many who feel better off!

Ian

[Wooden Spoon]

It was actually a pretty shrewd move by Cameron not having a 1 on1 with milliband.

By opening the debate he has weakened the core support of labour. UKIP are strong in many Tory areas and a 1 v1 wouldn't make much difference to the people who are going to vote purple. For them it's a one policy issue- in/out of the EU. But, by inviting the scots and Welsh nationalists he gave a platform to minority parties where labour are traditionally strong. If plaid Cymru get a seat or two and the SNP get an extra seat or 2 this negates the hand full of seats the Tories will lose to UKIP.


The blue lot will win a majority or we will have a blue/purple alliance


Any govt that can make such devastating cuts and still be in pole position are goin o be winners and we probably won't see a labour govt again for another decade.

[Wooden Spoon]

Farage didn't come across very tonight IMO.

[HistoricWarwick]

a kick in the balls, on 16 April 2015 - 08:51 PM, said:

Farage didn't come across very tonight IMO.

Joke of an audience.

Whole thing reminiscent of the Star Wars bar scene.