[Search & Destroy]

Quaker, on 12 December 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

Can you imagine the Speaker saying "OK folks, we are having a cross party team of negotiators.... Any volunteers?" They would all sink back, heads down (incl our own Toby) and wait for others to put their hands up. We have cowards for politicians. I may not agree with many things the PM has done, but she has definitely lead from the front with very little support from anyone and stood by her conviction. A single party running with Brexit will fail.

Cowards who put the letter in, none came forward and said they wanted the job

It’s impossible for her, getting sniped at and attacked from all sides

[isleaiw1]

Search and Destroy, on 13 December 2018 - 07:27 AM, said:

Ssshhh

If you listen carefully enough you can hear the superior accountant desperately clicking his keyboard scouring google

Here, try this one

https://www.google.c...n-2017-39973990

Not the Daily Mail either

sorry, bit busy with work.

You needed to be a bit more creative with your wording - here's one from Derbyshire CC (Shirebrook is in the Bolsover constituency so will this do)

https://www.derbyshi...pean-funds.aspx


No superior accountant here, although I'm pretty good Certainly better than at Chesterfield FC!!!

[isleaiw1]

Search and Destroy, on 13 December 2018 - 07:46 AM, said:

Cowards who put the letter in, none came forward and said they wanted the job

It’s impossible for her, getting sniped at and attacked from all sides

I think she has done the best job possible in the circumstances - especially considering she is a Remainer. With a 52/48 split in the country (and not much better in her own party..) but with a house that wants the opposite.... it was never going to end well. BoJo or JRM would have said alot and achieved little. Corbyn would probably have asked Hamas and the IRA what they thought

Looking forward to the talk moving to other subjects - like the next win!

[Search & Destroy]

MDCCCLXVI, on 12 December 2018 - 06:47 PM, said:

Well this member of the Metropolitan Elite voted remain.

And seeing pretty much everything promised by non elitists like the multi-millionaire public school educated Reece-Mogg, the multi-millionaire Eton educated Boris Johnson and the middle England former City banker Farage prove to be lies I'm even more of a remainer now.

They are the elite, not the liberal elite

The elite don’t give a fig about us, nor do the liberal elite in reality

The elite are so uber wealthy Brexit won’t affect them so JRM et all are just playing politics

The trendy Urbanites are doing very well but Brexit could affect them so they want to remain

For the rest of us?

Well the sorry state of affairs for many is the that if you have naff all then you’ve naff all to lose.

[frearsghost]

isleaiw1, on 13 December 2018 - 10:09 AM, said:

sorry, bit busy with work.

You needed to be a bit more creative with your wording - here's one from Derbyshire CC (Shirebrook is in the Bolsover constituency so will this do)

https://www.derbyshi...pean-funds.aspx


No superior accountant here, although I'm pretty good Certainly better than at Chesterfield FC!!!

This and the examples you gave above, is simply us receiving back some of our money wrapped up in grandiose philanthropy. There in nothing in EU funded projects that we couldn't do ourselves.

[turrhall]

frearsghost, on 13 December 2018 - 11:32 AM, said:

There in nothing in EU funded projects that we couldn't do ourselves.

Britain is one of the richest nations in the world, we *could* afford to drastically reduce homelessness, properly fund the NHS, pay a living wage and reduce the disparity between the richest and poorest in society. But do we (hint: the answer is no)?

EU grants mean that the most deprived areas in Europe, including places all over the UK, receive money to develop their economies and help their citizens. If it takes a terrorist attack for Manchester, the third most populated place in England, to get more necessary UK govt funding then what chance do the less fashionable towns of Northern England have?

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Search and Destroy, on 13 December 2018 - 11:05 AM, said:

They are the elite, not the liberal elite

The elite don’t give a fig about us, nor do the liberal elite in reality

The elite are so uber wealthy Brexit won’t affect them so JRM et all are just playing politics

The trendy Urbanites are doing very well but Brexit could affect them so they want to remain

For the rest of us?

Well the sorry state of affairs for many is the that if you have naff all then you’ve naff all to lose.

It's like this.

Folk know there's something missing from their lives so they look around for reasons why. So step forward the wealthy and powerful, supported by equally wealthy and powerful people on Fleet Street, who in the thirties blamed Jews and communists. In the fifties and sixties it was Commonwealth immigrants. In the seventies it was trade unions. Eighties unemployed, nineties single mothers, two thousands so-called benefit scroungers and in the two-teens east European immigrants. Meanwhile the various manifestations of the EU have been a decades long target for similar smears.

Why? Because the real reason so many folk have something missing from their lives is those same wealthy and powerful people want to be more wealthy and powerful. Hence the vilification of trade unions that stand up against them. Hence the vilification of folk on welfare - because if they can convince enough folk such payments aren't needed it allows them to argue for tax cuts. Similarly it's easier to blame minorities for a lack of hospital beds, school places and housing than funding cuts. And of course the EU has usually proven a buffer against these same people's attempts to tear-up employment, customer and environmental protections just so they can grab even bigger profits.

Now I'm more than happy to admit the EU is a wasteful, often undemocratic and sometimes even corrupt organisation. But then so's the British establishment. I mean, when was the last time anyone voted for a member of the House of Lords? However when we look at the vast majority of Brexiteers - there're those on the Left who adopt a similar stance because the EU hinders state aid and nationalisation but they're in a minority - they fall into the wealthy and powerful category. Or are at least funded by such individuals, often in an anonymous manner (see: the Taxpayers Alliance/Centre for Policy Studies/Institute of Economic Affairs/Adam Smith Institute - just a few of a number of shady right wing lobby groups operating from the same address in Westminster).

Oh, and by the way; it's a proven fact that many millions of ordinary punters living outside London voted 'Remain' so it's even more absurd to argue it's all some elitist conspiracy.

[Search & Destroy]

MDCCCLXVI, on 13 December 2018 - 03:24 PM, said:

It's like this.

Folk know there's something missing from their lives so they look around for reasons why. So step forward the wealthy and powerful, supported by equally wealthy and powerful people on Fleet Street, who in the thirties blamed Jews and communists. In the fifties and sixties it was Commonwealth immigrants. In the seventies it was trade unions. Eighties unemployed, nineties single mothers, two thousands so-called benefit scroungers and in the two-teens east European immigrants. Meanwhile the various manifestations of the EU have been a decades long target for similar smears.

Why? Because the real reason so many folk have something missing from their lives is those same wealthy and powerful people want to be more wealthy and powerful. Hence the vilification of trade unions that stand up against them. Hence the vilification of folk on welfare - because if they can convince enough folk such payments aren't needed it allows them to argue for tax cuts. Similarly it's easier to blame minorities for a lack of hospital beds, school places and housing than funding cuts. And of course the EU has usually proven a buffer against these same people's attempts to tear-up employment, customer and environmental protections just so they can grab even bigger profits.

Now I'm more than happy to admit the EU is a wasteful, often undemocratic and sometimes even corrupt organisation. But then so's the British establishment. I mean, when was the last time anyone voted for a member of the House of Lords? However when we look at the vast majority of Brexiteers - there're those on the Left who adopt a similar stance because the EU hinders state aid and nationalisation but they're in a minority - they fall into the wealthy and powerful category. Or are at least funded by such individuals, often in an anonymous manner (see: the Taxpayers Alliance/Centre for Policy Studies/Institute of Economic Affairs/Adam Smith Institute - just a few of a number of shady right wing lobby groups operating from the same address in Westminster).

Oh, and by the way; it's a proven fact that many millions of ordinary punters living outside London voted 'Remain' so it's even more absurd to argue it's all some elitist conspiracy.

Of course some did but it’s also a fact that London voted to remain, very heavily at 60%

I’m not saying it’s an elistist conspiracy, I’m saying that it’s easy to be a Liberal Elitist when you’re loaded, living in prosperous urban communities

[spireitetoo]

I voted remain, I would vote leave if it came to another vote. Why?
Cos the 1st vote should be adhered too, it was a democratic process, if you didn't vote and now want to change the result...
TOUGH!!

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Search and Destroy, on 13 December 2018 - 04:33 PM, said:

Of course some did but it’s also a fact that London voted to remain, very heavily at 60%

I’m not saying it’s an elistist conspiracy, I’m saying that it’s easy to be a Liberal Elitist when you’re loaded, living in prosperous urban communities

Y'mean like the Scots? Or folk in Liverpool? Newcastle, perhaps?

[Westbars Spireite]

spireitetoo, on 13 December 2018 - 06:56 PM, said:

I voted remain, I would vote leave if it came to another vote. Why?
Cos the 1st vote should be adhered too, it was a democratic process, if you didn't vote and now want to change the result...
TOUGH!!

Never heard that stance before!

[kh83]

I voted leave and would do so again.

Interestingly enough, during the referendum campaign I spoke to a group of blokes in the 50's, maybe early 60's and they were all saying they weren't voting but if they did they would vote leave. I couldn't believe they weren't voting as they were very well educated and had a great insight on the operations of the European Union. The reason for them not voting was; even if leave won the vote, the EU and Westminster would cleverly work together the manipulate us into staying in anyway. Said it might take a few years but they guaranteed me it would happen. Unfortunately it's looking as though these wise men were in fact correct and that democracy in this country is simply a smoke screen. It exists only when you vote in the same way as the middle class, the political elite and the celebrities. I naively thought that the working class decent people in this country were finally getting their voices heard, how wrong I was. For me this is a lot bigger than economics or immigration, it is now a case of saving our democracy. I can honestly say that had I voted remain and believed passionately that UK would be better off in the EU, I would vote leave in a second referendum in order to save democracy in our country as we know it.

The referendum was horrible and divisive and having another one would be even worse and would be the source of destruction and upheaval in the UK for decades to come. The blame for this whole shambles lies fully with the Tory party. Leave and remain voters passionately promote their stance which is fine and you'd expect them to do this and I don't blame the people on either side. Another worrying issue is that if we had another party in power, I have no confidence in either of them doing any better, I honestly don't believe we have a single party in the UK capable of running this country and delivering Brexit to its potential. The whole political landscape is appalling and needs completely gutting and starting again!

[Wooden Spoon]

MDCCCLXVI said:

1544714693[/url]' post='1438432']
It's like this.

Folk know there's something missing from their lives so they look around for reasons why. So step forward the wealthy and powerful, supported by equally wealthy and powerful people on Fleet Street, who in the thirties blamed Jews and communists. In the fifties and sixties it was Commonwealth immigrants. In the seventies it was trade unions. Eighties unemployed, nineties single mothers, two thousands so-called benefit scroungers and in the two-teens east European immigrants. Meanwhile the various manifestations of the EU have been a decades long target for similar smears.

Why? Because the real reason so many folk have something missing from their lives is those same wealthy and powerful people want to be more wealthy and powerful. Hence the vilification of trade unions that stand up against them. Hence the vilification of folk on welfare - because if they can convince enough folk such payments aren't needed it allows them to argue for tax cuts. Similarly it's easier to blame minorities for a lack of hospital beds, school places and housing than funding cuts. And of course the EU has usually proven a buffer against these same people's attempts to tear-up employment, customer and environmental protections just so they can grab even bigger profits.

Now I'm more than happy to admit the EU is a wasteful, often undemocratic and sometimes even corrupt organisation. But then so's the British establishment. I mean, when was the last time anyone voted for a member of the House of Lords? However when we look at the vast majority of Brexiteers - there're those on the Left who adopt a similar stance because the EU hinders state aid and nationalisation but they're in a minority - they fall into the wealthy and powerful category. Or are at least funded by such individuals, often in an anonymous manner (see: the Taxpayers Alliance/Centre for Policy Studies/Institute of Economic Affairs/Adam Smith Institute - just a few of a number of shady right wing lobby groups operating from the same address in Westminster).

Oh, and by the way; it's a proven fact that many millions of ordinary punters living outside London voted 'Remain' so it's even more absurd to argue it's all some elitist conspiracy.

It’s anti democratic.


We have general elections, and if the British public decide the govt of the day has had its day, they are out.


If the people of Europe want to change the leadership and direction of the EU, they can’t.


It’s an unelection body that rules by decree while refusing any internal checks and audits.

[Johnnyspireite7]

spireitetoo, on 13 December 2018 - 06:56 PM, said:

I voted remain, I would vote leave if it came to another vote. Why?
Cos the 1st vote should be adhered too, it was a democratic process, if you didn't vote and now want to change the result...
TOUGH!!

Excuse me but what about the people 2 years ago that couldn't vote like all the 16 year-olds who are now 18 and about to head to university who won't be able take advantage of the Erasmus system and go and study in Europe if they wanted to?

This post has been edited by Johnnyspireite7: 14 December 2018 - 06:50 PM

[Misnomer]

kh83, on 14 December 2018 - 11:52 AM, said:

I voted leave and would do so again.

Interestingly enough, during the referendum campaign I spoke to a group of blokes in the 50's, maybe early 60's and they were all saying they weren't voting but if they did they would vote leave. I couldn't believe they weren't voting as they were very well educated and had a great insight on the operations of the European Union. The reason for them not voting was; even if leave won the vote, the EU and Westminster would cleverly work together the manipulate us into staying in anyway. Said it might take a few years but they guaranteed me it would happen. Unfortunately it's looking as though these wise men were in fact correct and that democracy in this country is simply a smoke screen. It exists only when you vote in the same way as the middle class, the political elite and the celebrities. I naively thought that the working class decent people in this country were finally getting their voices heard, how wrong I was. For me this is a lot bigger than economics or immigration, it is now a case of saving our democracy. I can honestly say that had I voted remain and believed passionately that UK would be better off in the EU, I would vote leave in a second referendum in order to save democracy in our country as we know it.

The referendum was horrible and divisive and having another one would be even worse and would be the source of destruction and upheaval in the UK for decades to come. The blame for this whole shambles lies fully with the Tory party. Leave and remain voters passionately promote their stance which is fine and you'd expect them to do this and I don't blame the people on either side. Another worrying issue is that if we had another party in power, I have no confidence in either of them doing any better, I honestly don't believe we have a single party in the UK capable of running this country and delivering Brexit to its potential. The whole political landscape is appalling and needs completely gutting and starting again!

It exists only when you vote in the same way as the middle class, the political elite and the celebrities.....tha' what?

[Mr Mercury]

Johnnyspireite7, on 14 December 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

Excuse me but what about the people 2 years ago that couldn't vote like all the 16 year-olds who are now 18 and about to head to university who won't be able take advantage of the Erasmus system and go and study in Europe if they wanted to?

So if we vote leave again what about all the people who are 16-18, do we have another vote in two years again?

[Johnnyspireite7]

Mr Mercury, on 16 December 2018 - 08:49 AM, said:

So if we vote leave again what about all the people who are 16-18, do we have another vote in two years again?

I personally think that there will have been a switch. In the 2 years since the referendum some of the older generation that vote leave have passed on and the younger generation, who would more likely vote remain, who couldn't vote last time switch the percentages the other way around.

Plus I'd point out that my argument for voting remain has come true, in that the current deal does exactly what I said it would do, that if we want to deal with EU countries we'd have to abide by their rules but not have a say in them.

[frearsghost]

DEATH, on 14 December 2018 - 12:34 PM, said:

It’s anti democratic.


We have general elections, and if the British public decide the govt of the day has had its day, they are out.


If the people of Europe want to change the leadership and direction of the EU, they can’t.


It’s an unelection body that rules by decree while refusing any internal checks and audits.

Well said.

How long will it be before the next General Election will be followed six weeks later by another, on the grounds that some constituencies didn't vote for the government?

While your here. Can I call on your expertise. I read some tube drivers are on over £100k a year, What's your experience?

[isleaiw1]

frearsghost, on 16 December 2018 - 11:43 AM, said:

Well said.

How long will it be before the next General Election will be followed six weeks later by another, on the grounds that some constituencies didn't vote for the government?

While your here. Can I call on your expertise. I read some tube drivers are on over £100k a year, What's your experience?

They reportedly earn 60k a year, I guess they can do overtime and such, and probably have a decent pension that you could add into the mix....

[isleaiw1]

frearsghost, on 13 December 2018 - 11:32 AM, said:

This and the examples you gave above, is simply us receiving back some of our money wrapped up in grandiose philanthropy. There in nothing in EU funded projects that we couldn't do ourselves.

I wasn’t commenting on the politics - just the facts.

The most important political aspect of all of this is how it has shown both main parties up as self serving and not interested in what is best for the country or the people... including good old socialist Jezza who seems more interested in a general election than sorting Brexit...