[firedodger]

Interested to know peoples thoughts, we (fire service) are striking on Wednesday, I will be going on strike because that's the democratic decision of our union members but my personal feeling is that in the current climate we are wrong to be striking, I won't be picketing.
Do people support strikes nowadays? Or, as I suspect, does nobody really care?

[Wooden Spoon]

firedodger, on 23 September 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

Interested to know peoples thoughts, we (fire service) are striking on Wednesday, I will be going on strike because that's the democratic decision of our union members but my personal feeling is that in the current climate we are wrong to be striking, I won't be picketing.
Do people support strikes nowadays? Or, as I suspect, does nobody really care?

Strikes are the last resort, and for you guys, when you consider that you enter burning buildings for a wage that isnt outstanding, the "perk" of the job is the pension. Isnt that what this is about?

You look after us when in service, and after your service we should look after you.

[firedodger]

death, on 23 September 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

Strikes are the last resort, and for you guys, when you consider that you enter burning buildings for a wage that isnt outstanding, the "perk" of the job is the pension. Isnt that what this is about?

You look after us when in service, and after your service we should look after you.

Kind words mate, thankyou.
Pension is most of it yes, increased contributions/ decreased returns/increased retirement age and concerns over introduction of a new minimum fitness standard that would be very hard to achieve as you get into your 50's.

[Misnomer]

I'm going to state what I think based on what I know.

I've no idea why, on the wage you get, the 'actual' work time you put in, the fantastic pension you get, the early retirement (is it 55?), the physical state some of you are allowed to get into; what do you really have to moan about?

I've had this argument with my other half's dad who is a retired fireman, a very well-known union man who fought damned hard for the changes that happened in previous decades.

If strikes are appropriate then I will support them i.e. teachers! They work extremely hard (all day), take work home most evenings and weekends, design schemes of work through the holiday periods, mark endless work and start on less than a fireman and have to retire at 67! How on earth does that equate?!?!?

This post has been edited by Misnomer: 24 September 2013 - 07:48 AM

[Steve]

Misnomer, on 24 September 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

I'm going to state what I think based on what I know.

I've no idea why, on the wage you get, the 'actual' work time you put in, the fantastic pension you get, the early retirement (is it 55?), the physical state some of you are allowed to get into; what do you really have to moan about?

I've had this argument with my other half's dad who is a retired fireman, a very well-known union man who fought damned hard for the changes that happened in previous decades.

If strikes are appropriate then I will support them i.e. teachers! They work extremely hard (all day), take work home most evenings and weekends, design schemes of work through the holiday periods, mark endless work and start on less than a fireman and have to retire at 67! How on earth does that equate?!?!?

Because a teacher doesn't put his/her life at risk for the safety of others.

I will support the strike, the decimation of the state sector by this government is a disgrace (both my parents are in the NHS and are being clobbered) and should be challenged.

[firedodger]

Misnomer, on 24 September 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

I'm going to state what I think based on what I know.

I've no idea why, on the wage you get, the 'actual' work time you put in, the fantastic pension you get, the early retirement (is it 55?), the physical state some of you are allowed to get into; what do you really have to moan about?

I've had this argument with my other half's dad who is a retired fireman, a very well-known union man who fought damned hard for the changes that happened in previous decades.

All entitled to opinions pal, but it looks like you are stating what you think based on what you think (not necessarily know).

Wages? I'd say mine are ok, no more no less.
Not sure what you mean by 'actual' work time, do you mean time spent responding to incidents?
The pension is good, and not free, I pay about 12% of my wages into it so it should be.
Currently you can retire on a full pension after 30 years service (mininmum age of 50), used to be maximum age of 55 but not necessarily the case now.
And again I'm not sure what you mean by 'physical state some of you are allowed to get into'?

I suppose the major moan people have is the changes to the pension, folk are in the position where they joined years ago with a retirement age of X and a projected pension of Y, now they are facing a position where they will have to work longer and pay more for a pension of less, I think most of us would moan about that wouldn't we?
I'm not a massive union man but if your other halfs dad is from Derbyshire I'll know him, I've probably worked with him.

[Misnomer]

Steve, on 24 September 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

Because a teacher doesn't put his/her life at risk for the safety of others.

I will support the strike, the decimation of the state sector by this government is a disgrace (both my parents are in the NHS and are being clobbered) and should be challenged.

I think they do, albeit facing the odd blade rather than a fire etc. But, then, how often in a fireman's life does this happen; in all my life in Chesterfield I can't remember one fatality (fireman) nor any 'major' fires.

[firedodger]

Misnomer, on 24 September 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

I'm going to state what I think based on what I know.

I've no idea why, on the wage you get, the 'actual' work time you put in, the fantastic pension you get, the early retirement (is it 55?), the physical state some of you are allowed to get into; what do you really have to moan about?

I've had this argument with my other half's dad who is a retired fireman, a very well-known union man who fought damned hard for the changes that happened in previous decades.

If strikes are appropriate then I will support them i.e. teachers! They work extremely hard (all day), take work home most evenings and weekends, design schemes of work through the holiday periods, mark endless work and start on less than a fireman and have to retire at 67! How on earth does that equate?!?!?

The only answer I give about teachers really is that it can't equate, they are totally different professions so you can't compare the two. If teachers deem that strike is their best course of action good luck to them, I doubt it will make much difference regardless of which party is in power (from personal experience).
By the way I like the (all day) comment, very funny.

[Misnomer]

firedodger, on 24 September 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

All entitled to opinions pal, but it looks like you are stating what you think based on what you think (not necessarily know).

Wages? I'd say mine are ok, no more no less.
Not sure what you mean by 'actual' work time, do you mean time spent responding to incidents?
The pension is good, and not free, I pay about 12% of my wages into it so it should be.
Currently you can retire on a full pension after 30 years service (mininmum age of 50), used to be maximum age of 55 but not necessarily the case now.
And again I'm not sure what you mean by 'physical state some of you are allowed to get into'?

I suppose the major moan people have is the changes to the pension, folk are in the position where they joined years ago with a retirement age of X and a projected pension of Y, now they are facing a position where they will have to work longer and pay more for a pension of less, I think most of us would moan about that wouldn't we?
I'm not a massive union man but if your other halfs dad is from Derbyshire I'll know him, I've probably worked with him.

Why don't you state what you earn; it's definitely over 30k and for what you do i'd say that's far more than just 'ok'. As for your pension, it's one of the best out there!

Physical state: out of shape, badly at times! For such a responsible job, wouldn't you think a pre-requisite would be to maintain a high standard of physical fitness?

I just do not see what the problem is, comparatively. It's nothing personal btw.

[firedodger]

Misnomer, on 24 September 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

I think they do, albeit facing the odd blade rather than a fire etc. But, then, how often in a fireman's life does this happen; in all my life in Chesterfield I can't remember one fatality (fireman) nor any 'major' fires.

No firefighter fatalities in Derbyshire ever that I know of, whwether thats down to luck, skill or good training I don't know. I've been in the job 26 years, been to dozens of life changing incidents in Chesterfield so maybe you had better give your personal scale of 'major'?

[firedodger]

Misnomer, on 24 September 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

Why don't you state what you earn; it's definitely over 30k and for what you do i'd say that's far more than just 'ok'. As for your pension, it's one of the best out there!

Physical state: out of shape, badly at times! For such a responsible job, wouldn't you think a pre-requisite would be to maintain a high standard of physical fitness?

I just do not see what the problem is, comparatively. It's nothing personal btw.

None of your business really, but I'm two ranks up the scale and earn just over £35000. Please tell me what I do, I'm genuinely interested.

[Misnomer]

firedodger, on 24 September 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

The only answer I give about teachers really is that it can't equate, they are totally different professions so you can't compare the two. If teachers deem that strike is their best course of action good luck to them, I doubt it will make much difference regardless of which party is in power (from personal experience).
By the way I like the (all day) comment, very funny.

I find it simply baffling; a good teacher will graft like a bstard week on week, year on year; have to 'pay' to do a degree and then a PGCE (essentially 4/5 years of hard study, coupled with being saddled with mass debt); and, effectively, earn less than a fireman???? That's just bonkers! Hence, what have firemen really got to moan about!

[Misnomer]

firedodger, on 24 September 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

None of your business really, but I'm two ranks up the scale and earn just over £35000. Please tell me what I do, I'm genuinely interested.

35k is 'ok'? I'd call that more than ok, especially when you retire at 50 and have a superb pension!

I've absolutely no idea what you do, I was refering to the average fireman who's duties incorporate a multitude of tasks and plenty of downtime preparing for incidents. TBH it would be great to know what you do, personally. Vists to schools, business premises, attending RTAs (which you have my sympathy for), the odd fire, training, equipment maintenance, cats from trees....????

Oh, and the death rate of teachers, within 5 years of retiring is staggering!

This post has been edited by Misnomer: 24 September 2013 - 08:42 AM

[Steve]

Misnomer, on 24 September 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

35k is 'ok'? I'd call that more than ok, especially when you retire at 50 and have a superb pension!

I've absolutely no idea what you do, I was refering to the average fireman who's duties incorporate a multitude of tasks and plenty of downtime preparing for incidents. TBH it would be great to know what you do, personally. Vists to schools, business premises, attending RTAs (which you have my sympathy for), the odd fire, training, equipment maintenance, cats from trees....????

Oh, and the death rate of teachers, within 5 years of retiring is staggering!

Are you a teacher by any chance?

I'm not really sure what agenda you are pushing. We can dumb down anyones job... and that includes a teacher. You forgetting that teachers get a unbelievable amount of time off work? I am friends with MANY teachers and they really are nothing special and dont work harder than anyone else. So get off your high horse.

[Misnomer]

Actually, Steve, i'm not. But these stats are just for you:

since 1978 - 2006, almost 30 years: number of UK firefighter deaths - total 44 (20 of which unspecified), 1.4 per year, 0 in Derbyshire.

Since 1978 - 2006, almost 30 years: number of UK teacher deaths - total 228, 16.8 per year.

Now, you tell me which is the most hazardous profession?

BTW any death in either profession is one too many.

Additionally, I don't have an 'agenda' per se; moreover, I think firefighters get paid way too much for what they do and for such limited time in service; people who deem this a 'dangerous' 'life on the line' profession need to look at the stats which suggest quite the opposite, comparitively.

This post has been edited by Misnomer: 24 September 2013 - 09:47 AM

[Misnomer]

Steve, on 24 September 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

Are you a teacher by any chance?

I'm not really sure what agenda you are pushing. We can dumb down anyones job... and that includes a teacher. You forgetting that teachers get a unbelievable amount of time off work? I am friends with MANY teachers and they really are nothing special and dont work harder than anyone else. So get off your high horse.

As I said 'good' teachers put in the graft, those that don't get found out i.e. those at Newbold, what a mess that is!. As for time off, 'good' teacher work for most part of the holidays. How many teachers do you know and at what level, what schools?

[Middle East]

firedodger, on 23 September 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

Interested to know peoples thoughts, we (fire service) are striking on Wednesday, I will be going on strike because that's the democratic decision of our union members but my personal feeling is that in the current climate we are wrong to be striking, I won't be picketing.
Do people support strikes nowadays? Or, as I suspect, does nobody really care?

As a fellow public sector worker I am as any self respecting daily mail reader will tell you.... overpaid, underworked, lucky to have a job and sitting pretty with my enormous a gold plated pension!

The sad reality is longer hours, more years to work, higher pension contributions for a smaller pension, all allowances and benefits reduced or removed, redundancies left right and centre and just entering the 5th year of a pay freeze!

IMO this government are a set of public school boy ******s and funnily enough I always go on strike!

Does it do any good? Probably not!

Should we just sit there and let them have free reign to destroy lives and public services? Definitely not!

Good luck mate...... you boys do a cracking job as far as I am concerned !!!

[Andy Spireite]

Middle East, on 24 September 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

As a fellow public sector worker I am as any self respecting daily mail reader will tell you.... overpaid, underworked, lucky to have a job and sitting pretty with my enormous a gold plated pension!

The sad reality is longer hours, more years to work, higher pension contributions for a smaller pension, all allowances and benefits reduced or removed, redundancies left right and centre and just entering the 5th year of a pay freeze!

IMO this government are a set of public school boy ******s and funnily enough I always go on strike!

Does it do any good? Probably not!

Should we just sit there and let them have free reign to destroy lives and public services? Definitely not!

Good luck mate...... you boys do a cracking job as far as I am concerned !!!

So identical to the private sector then?

[Sabreman]

firedodger, on 23 September 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

Interested to know peoples thoughts, we (fire service) are striking on Wednesday, I will be going on strike because that's the democratic decision of our union members but my personal feeling is that in the current climate we are wrong to be striking, I won't be picketing.
Do people support strikes nowadays? Or, as I suspect, does nobody really care?

I care a great deal to be honest mate, you have my complete respect for what you do. You could put yourself in a potentially life threatening situation every single day you go to work. I know it doesn't happen like that but it potentially could, so I hope you achieve your goal in the strike but hope on Wednesday we have a free day of any accidents which the Fire Service would be required.

[Middle East]

Andy Spireite, on 24 September 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

So identical to the private sector then?

Agreed! apart from comparable workers in the private sector earn around half to double more than a public servant gets!

Small point but quite relevant.....

This post has been edited by Middle East: 24 September 2013 - 01:42 PM