[Wooden Spoon]

dalekpete, on 27 February 2021 - 11:56 AM, said:

The issue for me around this the stripping of citizenship to make someone stateless.

I could have two daughters by different mothers. One mother being the daughter of a Bangladeshi immigrant. Both of my children could be born at Calow and not have gone abroad until they were teenagers.

Having gone abroad they are jointly accused of a serious crime. The Home Secretary can then decide one of them isn't British, gets no support and cannot return to the UK. The other less brown one gets all the appropriate support.

Doesn’t Bangladeshi law say anyone born of Bengali parents or grandparents automatically receives Bengali citizenship?


Were your other daughter Indian or Pakistani then she wouldn’t have dual citizenship as a right?


It’s not begum being “brown” here Pete, it’s here being of Bangladesh origin and that countries laws allowing the unusual opportunity for her to be stripped of UK citizenship while arguably still not being stateless.



S+D - would you not agree that IS have prayed on and groomed impressionable young 15 yr olds in this case?

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Let's be abundantly clear.

No one - NO ONE - has sought to defend the utter evil that's ISIS. Just as no one - NO ONE - has called Begum anything but an incredibly stupid young woman. And just as no one - NO ONE - has sought to excuse grooming gangs.

Infact attempts to suggest as much are just cynical evasion (might we even use the term 'virtue signalling'?).

No, the issue here is the hypocrisy of those who scream blue murder about vulnerable white girls being exploited by Muslim men, yet vilify a vulnerable brown girl exploited by Muslim men.

To the point of once more using and abusing both parties as vehicles for Islamophobia, bigotry and political pandering.

I'll say it again; this would be an entirely different narrative if it were Jemima instead of Shemima...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 28 February 2021 - 10:51 AM

[Wooden Spoon]

The Earl of Chesterfield said:

1614509412[/url]' post='1564768']
Let's be abundantly clear.

No one - NO ONE - has sought to defend the utter evil that's ISIS. Just as no one - NO ONE - has called Begum anything but an incredibly stupid young woman. And just as no one - NO ONE - has sought to excuse grooming gangs.

Infact attempts to suggest as much are just cynical evasion (might we even use the term 'virtue signalling'?).

No, the issue here is the hypocrisy of those who scream blue murder about vulnerable white girls being exploited by Muslim men, yet vilify a vulnerable brown girl exploited by Muslim men.

To the point of once more using and abusing both parties as vehicles for Islamophobia, bigotry and political pandering.

I'll say it again; this would be an entirely different narrative if it were Jemima instead of Shemima...

I’d say it’s down to dual nationality or lack of. In Shemimas case it’s potentially flimsy that she has dual nationality- my interpretation from what I have read is that she’s entitled to it should she wish, not that she actually has applied for dual nationality with Bangladesh. However I could be wrong, not being an immigration lawyer.



Now if Jemima was a Canadian or American with U.K. nationality I’d also expect her to be stripped of U.K. citizenship. If she was British and had no dual nationality then legally, again as I understand it, she couldn’t be.

This post has been edited by DEATH: 28 February 2021 - 12:24 PM

[Search & Destroy]

DEATH, on 28 February 2021 - 09:29 AM, said:

Doesn’t Bangladeshi law say anyone born of Bengali parents or grandparents automatically receives Bengali citizenship?


Were your other daughter Indian or Pakistani then she wouldn’t have dual citizenship as a right?


It’s not begum being “brown” here Pete, it’s here being of Bangladesh origin and that countries laws allowing the unusual opportunity for her to be stripped of UK citizenship while arguably still not being stateless.



S+D - would you not agree that IS have prayed on and groomed impressionable young 15 yr olds in this case?

Death,

The girl was unfortunate enough to be born into a strict Islamic lifestyle so I’d say the grooming began at birth

Islam is a grooming process, you’re not born with those beliefs

And then the groomed becomes the groomer and it goes on unless someone decides to think for themselves (and then , if you’re in the wrong place you’d be killed)

And that’s not necessarily the Middle East, just as likely in Hounslow

This post has been edited by Search and Destroy: 01 March 2021 - 07:59 AM

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Search and Destroy, on 01 March 2021 - 07:16 AM, said:

Death,

The girl was unfortunate enough to be born into a strict Islamic lifestyle so I’d say the grooming began at birth

Islam is a grooming process, you’re not born with those beliefs

And then the groomed becomes the groomer and it goes on unless someone decides to think for themselves (and then , if you’re in the wrong place you’d be killed)

And so straightforward Islamophobia rears it's ugly head.

Din't take long, did it.

But hold on - aren't you saying it's not Begum's fault after all? That she was in truth groomed/cultivated/brainwashed?

Infact in the same way many zealots have warped (in a sense) legitimate religions throughout history.

How many innocents have been butchered in the name of so called Christianity over the centuries.

Begum's an incredibly stupid young woman. However by your own admission she was twisted at a vulnerable age. Contrast that with the Boris Johnson who dismissed investigations into Establishment paedophillia as money 'spaffed' and your own silence over Trump's most extreme supporters...

[Search & Destroy]

Islam is a grooming process,

If you’ve sympathy for Begum, then you must also have sympathy for Jihadi Joe , Salman Abedi and the rest of them.

She’d be a danger in this country, National security, that’s why the Supreme Court blocked her return

I’m all for National Security over one terrorist if it stops another Manchester

Call it Islamophobia if you like if it makes you feel better

It’s clear where you are on these issues, you don’t want to see Shamina left in Syria and you felt people were getting the knickers in a twist over the child grooming scandal

This post has been edited by Search and Destroy: 01 March 2021 - 09:03 AM

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Search and Destroy, on 01 March 2021 - 08:27 AM, said:

Islam is a grooming process,

If you’ve sympathy for Begum, then you must also have sympathy for Jihadi Joe , Salman Abedi and the rest of them.

She’d be a danger in this country, National security, that’s why the Supreme Court blocked her return

I’m all for National Security over one terrorist if it stops another Manchester

Call it Islamophobia if you like if it makes you feel better

So that's a 'Yes', then.

More of your laughably transparent hypocrisy.

Once more highlighted by your mouth-foaming rants against certain folk entering our borders, whilst being strangely relaxed about potential Covid carriers walking straight through them (see the Corona virus thread).

And in't it funny - I've met and mixed and mingled with countless Muslim people yet never felt the slightest sense of threat.

That grooming you're so obsessed with dun't seem to be working very well, does it.

For what it's worth I've challenged folk knocking on my door wanting to peddle their religion whilst accompanied by kids, too. Okay, maybe they're not about to head off to Syria or wherever to join an evil death cult. But it's still a case of adults with free choice - the category those you quote fall into - using and abusing vulnerable youngsters.

I completely condemn all such activity, whether it's perpetrated by Muslims, Catholics, Mormons, JW's or members of the British Establishment.

Sadly you and those you so often endorse have a far more selective attitude towards it...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 01 March 2021 - 09:05 AM

[calvin plummers socks]

Search and Destroy, on 01 March 2021 - 08:27 AM, said:

Islam is a grooming process,

Welll if this doesn’t end up with a ban from the moderators I guess nothing will!

[Wooden Spoon]

calvin plummers socks, on 01 March 2021 - 09:23 AM, said:

Welll if this doesn’t end up with a ban from the moderators I guess nothing will!

Why? Does Bobs board have aBlasphemy laws the rest of the UK does not?

[oldgoat]

Search and Destroy, on 01 March 2021 - 08:27 AM, said:

Islam is a grooming process,

If you’ve sympathy for Begum, then you must also have sympathy for Jihadi Joe , Salman Abedi and the rest of them.

She’d be a danger in this country, National security, that’s why the Supreme Court blocked her return

I’m all for National Security over one terrorist if it stops another Manchester

Call it Islamophobia if you like if it makes you feel better

It’s clear where you are on these issues, you don’t want to see Shamina left in Syria and you felt people were getting the knickers in a twist over the child grooming scandal

Isn't it the case that all religions and ideologies involve a grooming process

[oldgoat]

calvin plummers socks, on 01 March 2021 - 09:23 AM, said:

Welll if this doesn’t end up with a ban from the moderators I guess nothing will!

As I suggested all religions and ideologies involve a grooming process

Oops sorry about the repeat

This post has been edited by oldgoat: 01 March 2021 - 11:18 AM

[dtp]

In some respects I am with Chris in having some sympathy for a young girl like this who finds herself in the situation she is now in.

However, it is not an easy matter to get right and in no way if she is ever allowed to return to the UK should it open the floodgates by setting a precedent to then bring about numerous expensive law cases on behalf of terrorists who have previously deserted the country in support of their return.

Similarly, it is not helped in that she has shown little remorse and, somewhat, has excused ISIS for the Manchester attack in that she only sees it as some form of retaliation by them.

[Westbars Spireite]

calvin plummers socks, on 01 March 2021 - 09:23 AM, said:

Welll if this doesn’t end up with a ban from the moderators I guess nothing will!

It’s true. That’s what religions are.

[Wooden Spoon]

dtp said:

1614597806[/url]' post='1564880']]
Similarly, it is not helped in that she has shown little remorse and, somewhat, has excused ISIS for the Manchester attack in that she only sees it as some form of retaliation by them.

That is also something that shouldn’t be swept under the carpet when talking about this.

[Freddie]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 27 February 2021 - 03:53 PM, said:

See Pete's post, pal.

Surely any decision in Pete’s scenario would be made on a question of nationality, not race.

[Mr Mercury]

Good to see she’s represented by someone we can trust with our countries safety interests at heart.
https://www.dailymai...iban-Kabul.html

[Misnomer]

Mr Mercury, on 16 August 2021 - 04:00 PM, said:

Good to see she’s represented by someone we can trust with our countries safety interests at heart.
https://www.dailymai...iban-Kabul.html

Absolutely disgusting. And to think some people on here believe she deserves to be back here and free.

[Search & Destroy]

These people are truly abhorrent

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Define irony: folk posting disgust at women being used and abused by a medieval sect once more ganging up to condemn...

..a woman used and abused by a medieval sect.

Or shall we talk about someone making insensitive, some might say treacherous comments being reported to...

..Priti Patel.

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 16 August 2021 - 05:34 PM

[Search & Destroy]

I’d put Begum down as an abuser rather than abused