[Valley Blues]

Goku, on 03 January 2024 - 02:34 PM, said:

Google false equivalence.

It could be argued that there are false equivalences being made by those striking too.

I’ve seen numerous placards showing the wages for junior doctors in Australia compared to the UK with the suggestion they are comparible.

There wasn’t, however, any reference to the fact that the house prices in Australia currently sit approximately 30% higher than the UK ( Sydney reported as recently as last week as being the second most unaffordable city in the world to buy housing behind Hong Kong ), no reference to the fact that up until the last 6 months energy prices in Australia were 25-30% higher than the UK, no reference to the fact that grocery bills are similar but many luxury items such as alcohol are taxed at around 30% higher than the UK.

Italy was another nation on the placard where they are paid higher than the UK. Anyone been to Italy recently? Fuel costs around Naples during the summer of 2022 when I visited were pushed 5 euros a litre!

Comparing the salary of anyone in different countries is pointless without any comparative balance.

[Valley Blues]

Johnnyspireite7, on 03 January 2024 - 05:09 PM, said:

Considering that they deal with the general public's illnesses it is inevitable that some of them, even when they take all the precautions possible (allowing for dodgy PPE deals made by the Tories to their mates of course), will catch what they are treating. They are the ones taking the risks to help people so allow them some leeway in that regard.

I get the sick leave bit.

But this entitlement should actually be factored into their salary. It’s worth a hell of a lot.

I’m self employed which is obviously my choice but I have to put money away from what I earn to cover any potential time I may need to take off through illness.

NHS staff are obviously more exposed to picking stuff up than me but the entitlement of such a generous sickness leave is something that needs factoring in when discussing wages.

Would they be happy if they were given a 5k pay rise but this entitlement was effectively bought off of them and they had to put money aside each month?

I suppose it would be a good thing for the more ‘honest’ staff but I bet it’d get hundreds playing the lucrative system back into work.

This post has been edited by Valley Blues: 04 January 2024 - 10:03 AM

[isleaiw1]

fishini, on 04 January 2024 - 03:38 AM, said:

You fall into that category

Thanks. I put it down to experience, working in different sectors, having friends from different social, educational and cultural backgrounds, and reading around subjects.

I'm crap at DIY though.

(Yes I know you were suggesting I am a know it all - but I'm going to rise above it and explain how you get knowledge about various things that maybe pass you by..)

[calvin plummers socks]

isleaiw1, on 04 January 2024 - 10:32 AM, said:

Thanks. I put it down to experience, working in different sectors, having friends from different social, educational and cultural backgrounds, and reading around subjects.

I'm crap at DIY though.

(Yes I know you were suggesting I am a know it all - but I'm going to rise above it and explain how you get knowledge about various things that maybe pass you by..)

I bet I’m worse at DIY

Also I can’t sing, juggle or cook

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Search & Destroy, on 04 January 2024 - 09:10 AM, said:

Several NHS trusts declare critical incidents on first day of junior doctors' strike

You accept the collateral damage yeah?

Still waiting for you to confirm how many airstrikes the BMA have launched.

Come on, you started this, so don't run away again...

[Search & Destroy]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 04 January 2024 - 11:11 AM, said:

Still waiting for you to confirm how many airstrikes the BMA have launched.

Come on, you started this, so don't run away again...

Why would the BMA launch air strikes you blubbering idiot


I said that the same folk that got their knickers in a twist over Israeli strike’s causing collateral damage are supporting the BMA strike actionthat will also cause collateral damage. Indeed several NHS trusts have declared critical incidents.


You are the one who mentioned the BMA launching air strikes on Gaza


It was a simple analogy that seems to have you in all sorta knots


People are reading this you know😂

[calvin plummers socks]

isleaiw1, on 04 January 2024 - 10:32 AM, said:

Thanks. I put it down to experience, working in different sectors, having friends from different social, educational and cultural backgrounds, and reading around subjects.

I'm crap at DIY though.

(Yes I know you were suggesting I am a know it all - but I'm going to rise above it and explain how you get knowledge about various things that maybe pass you by..)

I bet I’m worse at DIY

Also I can’t sing, juggle or cook

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Valley Blues, on 04 January 2024 - 10:00 AM, said:

I get the sick leave bit.

But this entitlement should actually be factored into their salary. It’s worth a hell of a lot.

I’m self employed which is obviously my choice but I have to put money away from what I earn to cover any potential time I may need to take off through illness.

NHS staff are obviously more exposed to picking stuff up than me but the entitlement of such a generous sickness leave is something that needs factoring in when discussing wages.

Would they be happy if they were given a 5k pay rise but this entitlement was effectively bought off of them and they had to put money aside each month?

I suppose it would be a good thing for the more ‘honest’ staff but I bet it’d get hundreds playing the lucrative system back into work.

Revealing use of inverted commas, there.

Playing the right wing media game of discrediting doctors, inferring there're 'dishonest' ones abusing the sick allowance you've unilaterally decided to focus upon.

Even though our friend Ian has already stated it's not unusual even in the private sector.

So rather than 'betting' that's the case can you offer, say, three examples?

As opposed to the countless reports of them going way beyond their contacted hours.

And if the sick scheme should be part of negotiations, why not that committment too? The stress they experience? The life and death decisions they're forced to face?

All for far less then the twenty quid an hour we happily pay chippies, plumbers and sparks - or as a self employed person perhaps demand yourself - for domestic emergencies yet you seem to think excessive for medical emergencies...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 04 January 2024 - 12:58 PM

[Valley Blues]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 04 January 2024 - 12:07 PM, said:

Revealing use of inverted commas, there.

Playing the right wing media game of discrediting doctors, inferring there're 'dishonest' ones abusing the sick allowance you've unilaterally decided to focus upon.

Even though our friend Ian has already stated it's not unusual even in the private sector.

So rather than 'betting' that's the case can you offer, say, three examples?

As opposed to the countless reports of them going way beyond their contacted hours.

And if the sick scheme should be part of negotiations, why not that committment too? The stress they experience? The life and death decisions they're forced to face?

All for far less then the twenty quid an hour we happily pay - and as a self employed person perhaps demand yourself - plumbers, chippies or sparks for domestic emergencies yet you seem to think excessive for medical emergencies...

Do you mean the contracted hours they go way beyond that are paid extra for? The hours that aren’t included in the basic pay which is the figure being quoted? Those extra hours?

And the £20 an hour you refer to. You do realise the £29k being banded about is actually over £32k as a basic starting salary for a first year junior doctor.

A junior doctor with three years core training is on over £44k. This is basic, you understand. Before any additional hours of their contract and doesn’t include their shift allowance.
An option could be having their overtime, shift and bank holiday allowance bought off them in a pay negotiation like the police did a number of years ago for ranks of Inspector and above? Worst thing they ever did, apparently.

And the final junior doctor basic salary is over £63k. Not quite the £29k on the placards.

But I’m sure you already knew all that.


Junior doctors want more pay. Fair enough. But let’s have the actual nuts and bolts and not a highly misleading representation of the actual situation.

And quoting our friend Ian stating six months sick leave is not unusual, even in the private sector.

No he didn’t, nothing of the sort. He said he did.

But I’m sure you knew that too…..

This post has been edited by Valley Blues: 04 January 2024 - 01:23 PM

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Valley Blues, on 04 January 2024 - 12:58 PM, said:

Do you mean the contracted hours they go way beyond that are paid extra for? The hours that aren’t included in the basic pay which is the figure being quoted? Those extra hours?

And the £20 an hour you refer to. You do realise the £29k being banded about is actually over £32k as a basic starting salary for a first year junior doctor.

A junior doctor with three years core training is on over £44k. This is basic, you understand. Before any additional hours of their contract and doesn’t include their shift allowance.
An option could be having their overtime, shift and bank holiday allowance bought off them in a pay negotiation like the police did a number of years ago for ranks of Inspector and above? Worst thing they ever did, apparently.

And the final junior doctor basic salary is over £63k. Not quite the £29k on the placards.

But I’m sure you already knew all that.


Junior doctors want more pay. Fair enough. But let’s have the actual nuts and bolts and not a highly misleading representation of the actual situation.

And quoting our friend Ian stating six months sick leave is not unusual, even in the private sector.

No he didn’t, nothing of the sort. He said he did.

But I’m sure you knew that too…..

So to no one's surprise not a single example of the sick leave abuses you accused doctors of, then.

Like your first three posts it was just another unnecessary jibe, I guess.

And given doctors' contracts are based on a forty eight hour week, you do realise your own figures put them on less than twenty quid an hour...don't you?

But what I don't get is the antipathy you're so obviously demonstrating. Why? Is it simply a case of resenting them being so much better off than you? Because without wanting you to reveal your own business, I'm prepared to "bet" it didn't require the training, saddle you with the debt or make the relentless demands experienced by front-line doctors on a daily basis...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 04 January 2024 - 06:01 PM

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Search & Destroy, on 04 January 2024 - 11:18 AM, said:

Why would the BMA launch air strikes you blubbering idiot


I said that the same folk that got their knickers in a twist over Israeli strike’s causing collateral damage are supporting the BMA strike actionthat will also cause collateral damage. Indeed several NHS trusts have declared critical incidents.


You are the one who mentioned the BMA launching air strikes on Gaza


It was a simple analogy that seems to have you in all sorta knots


People are reading this you know😂

Yup, and they're reading you re-confirm your jaw droppingly crass attempt to equate doctors' strikes with IDF airstrikes.

Just as they're more than capable of deciding who that proves a "blithering idiot"...

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Damn those doctors for being so greedy!!!

https://www.bbc.co.u...siness-67877235

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 04 January 2024 - 06:03 PM

[Search & Destroy]

Picket line medics have been accused of causing “unforgivable” harm to patients who have been told not to go to A&E except in a life-threatening situation.

Strike leaders at the British Medical Association today sparked a row as it emerged they have refused at least 19 out of 20 requests for hospital staff to return to work.

The process, known as a derogation, is an agreed fail-safe in case there are not enough staff to provide emergency or critical care.

I suppose those that got their knickers in a twist over Boris are now happy to let the bodies pile high?

This post has been edited by Search & Destroy: 04 January 2024 - 06:28 PM

[Valley Blues]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 04 January 2024 - 05:45 PM, said:

So to no one's surprise not a single example of the sick leave abuses you accused doctors of, then.

Like your first three posts it was just another unnecessary jibe, I guess.

And given doctors' contracts are based on a forty eight hour week, you do realise your own figures put them on less than twenty quid an hour...don't you?

But what I don't get is the antipathy you're so obviously demonstrating. Why? Is it simply a case of resenting them being so much better off than you? Because without wanting you to reveal your own business, I'm prepared to "bet" it didn't require the training, saddle you with the debt or make the relentless demands experienced by front-line doctors on a daily basis...

You forgot to address the part where I responded to you completely making up what Ian said to fit your narrative.

You can supply us all with a plethora of examples in the private sector where 6 months full pay sick leave is an entitlement as you seem to suggest it’s not uncommon.

This post has been edited by Valley Blues: 04 January 2024 - 06:46 PM

[Mr Mercury]

Search & Destroy, on 04 January 2024 - 06:25 PM, said:

Picket line medics have been accused of causing “unforgivable” harm to patients who have been told not to go to A&E except in a life-threatening situation.

Strike leaders at the British Medical Association today sparked a row as it emerged they have refused at least 19 out of 20 requests for hospital staff to return to work.

The process, known as a derogation, is an agreed fail-safe in case there are not enough staff to provide emergency or critical care.

I suppose those that got their knickers in a twist over Boris are now happy to let the bodies pile high?

And there will be people dying because of the strike action, undeniably.
And I’d absolutely guarantee, and no I’m not going to find three examples per our usual quiz masters insistence, that if they get six months full sick pay per year that many “make full use” of the benefit. I know I would!

This post has been edited by Mr Mercury: 04 January 2024 - 07:16 PM

[Westbars Spireite]

I would get six months full sick pay from my employer (then half pay for a further six). We also recently aligned paternity rights with those of mothers so I could get six months full pay for getting someone up the duff as my mate did.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Valley Blues, on 04 January 2024 - 06:27 PM, said:

You forgot to address the part where I responded to you completely making up what Ian said to fit your narrative.

You can supply us all with a plethora of examples in the private sector where 6 months full pay sick leave is an entitlement as you seem to suggest it’s not uncommon.

Really?

Back to petty games?

You ignore every point made and try to divert - some might say derail - with pedentry like this?

But okay, I'll be the grown up, here. Ian said he enjoys more than six months sick leave. He works in the private sector. Ergo it's not unusual - and certainly not the "beggars belief" revelation you portrayed it as.

I'm not gonna go all t*t-for-tat and demand you respond to my prompts, either. You've already proven you can't. So we're back to why you'd rather sneer and smear than accept the front line medics we turn to in our darkest hours recieve rewards at least comparable to the sparkies we turn to in other dark hours....?

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 04 January 2024 - 07:47 PM

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Mr Mercury, on 04 January 2024 - 07:09 PM, said:

And there will be people dying because of the strike action, undeniably.
And I’d absolutely guarantee, and no I’m not going to find three examples per our usual quiz masters insistence, that if they get six months full sick pay per year that many “make full use” of the benefit. I know I would!

Remembering both you and your Farage fanboy ally refused to condemn Boris the Liar's Covid fatality figures or his "Let the bodies pile high!" declarations...

[Mr Mercury]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 04 January 2024 - 07:46 PM, said:

Remembering both you and your Farage fanboy ally refused to condemn Boris the Liar's Covid fatality figures or his "Let the bodies pile high!" declarations...

Just to add I’m also a Farage fan boy, you say it as though it’s some kind of insult to have a different political view,! But to be honest I’d rather be a Farage fanboy than suck up to KS, and….could you provide three examples were I’ve refused to condemn Boris’ comment?

This post has been edited by Mr Mercury: 04 January 2024 - 07:56 PM

[Mr Mercury]

calvin plummers socks, on 04 January 2024 - 11:25 AM, said:

I bet I’m worse at DIY

Also I can’t sing, juggle or cook

I’m an excellent tiler, did my own bathroom and kitchen when we initially brought the house, and made an excellent job, but it did take me around a year, although when we had new bathroom and kitchen refits a few years ago we did have it done professionally.
I can’t sing or juggle, but I can cook, and we’ve just bought a two draw “ninja” in the sales but I haven’t got a clue then we’ll use it. Impulse purchase.