[Blue5]

I’ve been thinking about posting this for a few weeks especially after seeing what’s unravelling at Scunthorpe.

There are couple of subjects which have been done to death on here, John Croot’s role in getting the takeover done and the lack of financial understanding and control shown by the Trust post takeover. I can criticise and ask questions with the best of them, but sometimes you’ve got to acknowledge and appreciate where we are.

Other than John being an employee of the Trust and them being reliant on the goodwill of the club (I know that sometimes it wasn’t forthcoming under the previous regime), I will never understand why he didn’t resign with the other directors. He took some stick on here for that, as did Mike Warner. John did give his reasons for not resigning and when you consider the suitability of two of the interested parties, then I suspect our outlook would have been very different to what we are experiencing today. From John’s point of view, he might argue that it was job well done.

Post takeover, a lot of questions have been asked on here and at the club’s AGM concerning financial controls and understanding. Despite the obvious weaknesses which I understand have been addressed, we’ve had no Winding-Up Petitions, no County Court Judgements, no stadium disputes, no FA investigations, etc.

When Dave Allen decided he wanted out, our club could have ended up with another bad owner and you have only got to look at Scunthorpe to see how it can go wrong.

We should consider ourselves extremely grateful to the Trust, its Trustees, the ex directors who took a hit, Derbyshire County Council, Chesterfield Borough Council, and more recently to Phil and Ashley Kirk.

That’s enough praise from me, I’ve got a headache!

This post has been edited by Blue5: 28 September 2023 - 03:39 PM

[isleaiw1]

and maybe to DA, as he could have told the Trust to go away and sold to someone else if he really wanted to.

My guess is he underestimated the capability to get things moving forward and perhaps now wishes he had sold to one of the dodgy suitors that were mentioned at the time!

[60s 70s Spireite]

Blue5, on 28 September 2023 - 03:31 PM, said:

I’ve been thinking about posting this for a few weeks especially after seeing what’s unravelling at Scunthorpe.

There are couple of subjects which have been done to death on here, John Croot’s role in getting the takeover done and the lack of financial understanding and control shown by the Trust post takeover. I can criticise and ask questions with the best of them, but sometimes you’ve got to acknowledge and appreciate where we are.

Other than John being an employee of the Trust and them being reliant on the goodwill of the club (I know that sometimes it wasn’t forthcoming under the previous regime), I will never understand why he didn’t resign with the other directors. He took some stick on here for that, as did Mike Warner. John did give his reasons for not resigning and when you consider the suitability of two of the interested parties, then I suspect our outlook would have been very different to what we are experiencing today. From John’s point of view, he might argue that it was job well done.

Post takeover, a lot of questions have been asked on here and at the club’s AGM concerning financial controls and understanding. Despite the obvious weaknesses which I understand have been addressed, we’ve had no Winding-Up Petitions, no County Court Judgements, no stadium disputes, no FA investigations, etc.

When Dave Allen decided he wanted out, our club could have ended up with another bad owner and you have only got to look at Scunthorpe to see how it can go wrong.

We should consider ourselves extremely grateful to the Trust, its Trustees, the ex directors who took a hit, Derbyshire County Council, Chesterfield Borough Council, and more recently to Phil and Ashley Kirk.

That’s enough praise from, I’ve got a headache!

For all the failures of DA and his ‘faithful assistant’ (and boy how bad were those last seasons) we have to be grateful he walked away as he did, leaving not only the club but a large sum of irrecoverable debt.
The worry was always that DA would hold out for an unattainable sum for his shares and debt, or even have attempted to separate the club from the stadium. See many other clubs in that position. As it was, it seems he was as tired of the club as we were of him.

[Siberian Spireite]

60s 70s Spireite, on 28 September 2023 - 03:47 PM, said:

For all the failures of DA and his ‘faithful assistant’ (and boy how bad were those last seasons) we have to be grateful he walked away as he did, leaving not only the club but a large sum of irrecoverable debt.
The worry was always that DA would hold out for an unattainable sum for his shares and debt, or even have attempted to separate the club from the stadium. See many other clubs in that position. As it was, it seems he was as tired of the club as we were of him.

Are we 100% free of all commitments to Allen now? Hope so, obviously.

[Paragon of Virtue]

Looking at the plight of Scunthorpe and Southend, I'm very glad there was no funny business with the stadium

[Westbars Spireite]

I can grudgingly respect DA for walking away as he did.

[Benno Spire]

Siberian Spireite, on 28 September 2023 - 03:54 PM, said:

Are we 100% free of all commitments to Allen now? Hope so, obviously.

Is there a clause whee the club has to pay DA a sum if/when we get promoted to the FL within a set time period? Thought I read somewhere about it, could be wrong. Hope I’m wrong.

[Bankrobber]

Blue5, on 28 September 2023 - 03:31 PM, said:

I’ve been thinking about posting this for a few weeks especially after seeing what’s unravelling at Scunthorpe.

There are couple of subjects which have been done to death on here, John Croot’s role in getting the takeover done and the lack of financial understanding and control shown by the Trust post takeover. I can criticise and ask questions with the best of them, but sometimes you’ve got to acknowledge and appreciate where we are.

Other than John being an employee of the Trust and them being reliant on the goodwill of the club (I know that sometimes it wasn’t forthcoming under the previous regime), I will never understand why he didn’t resign with the other directors. He took some stick on here for that, as did Mike Warner. John did give his reasons for not resigning and when you consider the suitability of two of the interested parties, then I suspect our outlook would have been very different to what we are experiencing today. From John’s point of view, he might argue that it was job well done.

Post takeover, a lot of questions have been asked on here and at the club’s AGM concerning financial controls and understanding. Despite the obvious weaknesses which I understand have been addressed, we’ve had no Winding-Up Petitions, no County Court Judgements, no stadium disputes, no FA investigations, etc.

When Dave Allen decided he wanted out, our club could have ended up with another bad owner and you have only got to look at Scunthorpe to see how it can go wrong.

We should consider ourselves extremely grateful to the Trust, its Trustees, the ex directors who took a hit, Derbyshire County Council, Chesterfield Borough Council, and more recently to Phil and Ashley Kirk.

That’s enough praise from me, I’ve got a headache!

A very timely post and a good moment to take stock of things. We aren't quite where we want to be on the field, but we could be a whole lot worse off it.

[dtp]

Westbars Spireite, on 28 September 2023 - 04:12 PM, said:

I can grudgingly respect DA for walking away as he did.

I've said before that we enjoyed the first 5 years or so of DA's ownership along with the move into the new stadium.

Unfortunately, after that, he seemed to lose interest and the memories of the good times faded as we went from bad to worse.

However, his willingness to pass on the Club to the Trust and effectively write off circa £10 million which he had put in should not be forgotten and, in reality, that has helped to get us to where we are today. Yes, we've still got a long way to go but I do believe we are on that journey.

[Blue roan lily]

For me it was more Carson than deserved the bad feeling than DA.
The ‘ corner shop to department store ‘ jibe from DA however was a bad un after all the history etc at Saltergate.
Like some posters have already said when he left we could have been in a far worse state and I’d give major credit to the trust for guiding us through the difficult times.
As for today, the place is buzzing, we’ve got a ground full of families and all ages.
What a time to be a Spireite..

[azul]

Westbars Spireite, on 28 September 2023 - 04:12 PM, said:

I can grudgingly respect DA for walking away as he did.

He could have put so many caveats on the sale or made it so much harder for the new owners by splitting the business up. I had assumed for years that what he intended and my assumptions were proved wrong for whatever reason.

Undoubtedly he steered us to our lowest point in 100+ years but left us with way back.

[dim view]

azul, on 28 September 2023 - 05:54 PM, said:

He could have put so many caveats on the sale or made it so much harder for the new owners by splitting the business up. I had assumed for years that what he intended and my assumptions were proved wrong for whatever reason.

Undoubtedly he steered us to our lowest point in 100+ years but left us with way back.

Carson thought the club would be finished within 12 months under the new management. I've no doubt he had also issued that advice to Allen. Top adviser, Carson.

[h again]

That's the Dave Allen who built us the new ground. Without him we'd still be in the ruins of Saltergate, or possibly Somersall Park. Maybe delegation wasn't his strong point, but his contribution was immense.

[Wooden Spoon]

Siberian Spireite, on 28 September 2023 - 03:54 PM, said:

Are we 100% free of all commitments to Allen now? Hope so, obviously.

Wasn’t there a payment due to D.A. If the club get back to the EFL?


At the time I thought he was selling to the trust because he thought they would flounder, a penniless charity taking over a million pounds a year loss making business and say “ha, you never had it so good” but on reflection he didn’t need to write off tenmillion in debts. He could have kept his loans and sold the club to the trust for £1.


So, in hindsight, fair play, even if as said above he was as sick of the club as the club were of him.



Apart from Zorrow, who were the other interested party?

[warfey is a spireite]

Does Zorro still go ?

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

When Allen first arrived he was everything a football fan wanted.

Ambitious and putting his money where his mouth was.

And yeah, he supplied the cash to finish the stadium, deliver two promotions, two Wembley finals and a third tier play off place.

But let's not forget him then pulling the plug. Let's not forget him appointing Saunders based on nothing more than a post after dinner gig conversation. Let's not forget his apparent hokey-cokey attitude to funding. Let's not forget him quitting and how he treated long standing directors. Let's not forget him all but blaming fans for the chaos he created. Let's not forget the seemingly never ending succession of court orders, CCJ's, questionable characters, scandals and incompetence. Let's not forget relegation after relegation culminating in 'celebrating' our hundred and fiftieth year by going non league.

Let's not forget the Club being run by Carson and a couple of Ass' D' cronies. Probably the worst board in it's history.

So okay, he could've left us in even deeper dung. Was the Swedish bid serious? The Chinese one? Others? I guess we'll never know. Just as we'll never know if he handed over to the Trust expecting them to fall flat in their ass. If Carson's 'See where you are in twelve months' was merely his bitter sneer or summat he'd heard from his master.

I see Dave Allen the same way I see Norton Lea: an arrogant figure who oversaw undoubted highs but also oversaw much longer lasting damage. No applause from me...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 28 September 2023 - 07:50 PM

[h again]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 28 September 2023 - 07:42 PM, said:

When Allen first arrived he was everything a football fan wanted.

Ambitious and putting his money where his mouth was.

And yeah, he supplied the cash to finish the stadium, deliver two promotions, two Wembley finals and a third tier play off place.

But let's not forget him then pulling the plug. Let's not forget him appointing Saunders based on nothing more than a post after dinner gig conversation. Let's not forget his apparent hokey-cokey attitude to funding. Let's not forget him quitting and how he treated long standing directors. Let's not forget him all but blaming fans for the chaos he created. Let's not forget the seemingly never ending succession of court orders, CCJ's, questionable characters, scandals and incompetence. Let's not forget relegation after relegation culminating in 'celebrating' our hundred and fiftieth year by going non league.

Let's not forget the Club being run by Carson and a couple of Ass' D' cronies. Probably the worst board in it's history.

So okay, he could've left us in even deeper dung. Was the Swedish bid serious? The Chinese one? Others? I guess we'll never know. Just as we'll never know if he handed over to the Trust expecting them to fall flat in their ass. If Carson's 'See where you are in twelve months' was merely his bitter sneer or summat he'd heard from his master.

I see Dave Allen the same way I see Norton Lea: an arrogant figure who oversaw undoubted highs but also oversaw far further falls...

But left us with a new stadium. Which he built, he didn't just 'finish'.

[spireitetoo]

h again, on 28 September 2023 - 07:51 PM, said:

But left us with a new stadium. Which he built, he didn't just 'finish'.

He also left us at our lowest ever point, on the brink of another relegation, and potentially oblivion...

But we got a nice stadium so he's a good un.. isn't he.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

h again, on 28 September 2023 - 07:51 PM, said:

But left us with a new stadium. Which he built, he didn't just 'finish'.

Strange - I seem to remember you declaring the new ground a monument to Barry Hubbard on the thread paying tribute to his memory.

Just as many reading this will remember you being a 'Bob's Board' version of Lord Haw Haw on the Allen regime's behalf.

But the simple truth is our stadium was largely paid for by grants, loans, subsidies, a land gift by the developer and the sale of Saltergate.

So of course Dave Allen's share purchase filled the funding gap, no one's denying that. However saying he single handedly built it is ignoring the considerable contribution of several other parties...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 28 September 2023 - 08:05 PM