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#41 User is offline   isleaiw1 

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Posted 29 July 2024 - 07:33 PM

View PostBonnyman, on 29 July 2024 - 07:27 PM, said:

Not sure where you get your information from but firefighters can strike I have been involved in two industrial disputes and also the army don?t man fire trucks anymore and have not for years


They did in my lifetime!
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#42 User is offline   isleaiw1 

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Posted 29 July 2024 - 07:38 PM

View Postturrhall, on 29 July 2024 - 06:40 PM, said:

Advancement, in any sense, doesn't just happen. We have rights, that we now view as inalienable, because unions and working people fought for and won them through action, including strikes.

I don't care if millionaires get WFA if it means that a poor person who actually needs it also gets it. Means testing sucks, is expensive and people fall through the cracks.



On that last point we won't agree, but I do think if you work hard and save your money, you shouldn't be penalising them, versus those who get the money and pee it up the wall... but I see the policy on protecting more of their wealth from care home fees has also gone....

Seems like everyone is paying to stop the public sector unions from striking again....
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#43 User is offline   Holmesc1 

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Posted 29 July 2024 - 07:42 PM

All those thinking austerity was only a thing under a tory government have clearly been proved wrong after todays annoincement
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#44 User is offline   Bonnyman 

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Posted 29 July 2024 - 07:45 PM

View Postisleaiw1, on 29 July 2024 - 07:33 PM, said:

They did in my lifetime!

Finished in 2004
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#45 User is offline   isleaiw1 

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Posted 29 July 2024 - 10:00 PM

View PostBonnyman, on 29 July 2024 - 07:45 PM, said:

Finished in 2004


I was the grand old age of 40 by then... new I could remember it!
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#46 User is offline   isleaiw1 

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Posted 29 July 2024 - 10:05 PM

My favourite from today... the Labour Party have been telling us that we need to build to get growth... so we have some infrastructure projects in train... but we cant afford them... but we can afford to build houses... which arent in train, dont have planning and will take an age to get going. But building will generate the growth that will pay for everything... but not building stuff already part way down the planning path...

As for in year overspends on asylum, wonder how that will be going whilst we build the Border Force to smash the gangs... with no other deterrent, and lovely summer weather. Numbers this week might be a new record...

Looking forward to Oct 30th to see just where they clobber the non working taxpayer, as apparently the working man will be fine....
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#47 User is offline   Valley Blues 

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Posted 30 July 2024 - 08:02 AM

So Rachael Reeves is questioned this morning about the fact that she has made a complete U-turn on assurances made by Wes Streeting 6 weeks ago during their election campaign.

How can she/they be trusted after they go back on their word less than a month in, was the question put to her.

Standard start to the answer of referring to the last 14 years but goes on to say they?ve discovered a ?22 billion black hole that the Tories had hidden from them.
Could do with Jeremy Hunt doing my books.

Makes you wonder how many more of their pre-elected assurances and promises will be scrapped due to Cilla Black style surprise, surprise moments.

Seems a little convenient, albeit expected really
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#48 User is offline   isleaiw1 

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Posted 30 July 2024 - 08:06 AM

View PostValley Blues, on 30 July 2024 - 08:02 AM, said:

So Rachael Reeves is questioned this morning about the fact that she has made a complete U-turn on assurances made by Wes Streeting 6 weeks ago during their election campaign.

How can she/they be trusted after they go back on their word less than a month in, was the question put to her.

Standard start to the answer of referring to the last 14 years but goes on to say they?ve discovered a ?22 billion black hole that the Tories had hidden from them.
Could do with Jeremy Hunt doing my books.

Makes you wonder how many more of their pre-elected assurances and promises will be scrapped due to Cilla Black style surprise, surprise moments.

Seems a little convenient, albeit expected really


Isnt ?7m of that the over inflation pay rises they are giving (the Tories budgeted 2% in line with inflation) and another ?6m or so the overspend on asylum costs - which might be because the planned approach to reduce costs was rejected....

Most people do a budget and then reforecast, some things are higher than expected and you redirect mid year...

Loved the cartoon in the Torygraph today - sucking money from pensioners to pay to the unions for public sector pay rises - those public sector workers where productivity is down since pre pandemic levels despite higher spend...

Anyway, going to ask the Board if we can have 5% next year this morning, wish me luck ;)
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#49 User is offline   azul 

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Posted 30 July 2024 - 09:22 AM

View Postisleaiw1, on 29 July 2024 - 09:12 AM, said:

Its worse than we expected, even though the OBR publishes all the data... although I imagine there are things that are costing more than predicted that havent been factored in...

We need to cut back and potentially raise taxes to pay for it - but here, have a 5.5% pay rise in the meantime (dont get me wrong, I think if the body recommends it then its right to pay it but its a bit against the grain)...

Oh, high pay settlements might delay interest rate cuts, which will impact confidence and disposable income, which may harm growth - which is Labour's big solution to everything....



If we are going to blame the other party, wasnt it Labour's profligacy that caused the Tory austerity?

The Tory/Lib Dem austerity was driven by dogma. It went well beyond what was required to put economy on an even keel. The Cameron/Clegg/Osbourne cuts went well beyond what Thatcher could only dream of. We are still living with this dogma 14 years later, add Brexit, Covid and Truss into the mix and we have a country on its knees put there by the Tories. At east we have a government of grownups now; far too timid but at least pointing in roughly on the right trajectory.
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#50 User is offline   azul 

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Posted 30 July 2024 - 09:29 AM

View Postisleaiw1, on 29 July 2024 - 10:05 PM, said:

My favourite from today... the Labour Party have been telling us that we need to build to get growth... so we have some infrastructure projects in train... but we cant afford them... but we can afford to build houses... which arent in train, dont have planning and will take an age to get going. But building will generate the growth that will pay for everything... but not building stuff already part way down the planning path...

As for in year overspends on asylum, wonder how that will be going whilst we build the Border Force to smash the gangs... with no other deterrent, and lovely summer weather. Numbers this week might be a new record...

Looking forward to Oct 30th to see just where they clobber the non working taxpayer, as apparently the working man will be fine....

No problem cancelling vanity projects or things that never were going to happen. Talking of which, having all these new hospitals isn?t going help if you haven?t got the staff to resource them. Perhaps the pay rises might help the haemorrhaging of staff, we?ll see.
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#51 User is offline   isleaiw1 

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Posted 30 July 2024 - 10:35 AM

View Postazul, on 30 July 2024 - 09:29 AM, said:

No problem cancelling vanity projects or things that never were going to happen. Talking of which, having all these new hospitals isn?t going help if you haven?t got the staff to resource them. Perhaps the pay rises might help the haemorrhaging of staff, we?ll see.


Or it will add even more to their pensions and even more an retire early... Do you think the extra pay will resolve the productivity and efficiency issues? I can see it will teach every other union that threatening to strike is the solution each and every year for the next 5...

Same comment of course applies to building homes, but apparently we are pushing ahead with that... even though we dont have the planning or the people to build or the money to pay....

Rail improvement, improved road around stonehenge (have you ever driven down there?) and new hospitals are vanity projects.... I'd say there is a chunk of stuff in the labour plans that are vanity projects (VAT on school fees being the obvious one) as such projects serve no purpose except play to the person or persons who want it...

The cap on social care wasnt one but we cant afford that... between that, the IHT and CGT changes that are coming, where is the incentive for people to improve their lot and hand it down to future generations. Sod it, mine is now going on fast cars, good wine, and the rest I will waste ;)
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#52 User is offline   azul 

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Posted 30 July 2024 - 01:00 PM

View Postisleaiw1, on 30 July 2024 - 10:35 AM, said:

Or it will add even more to their pensions and even more an retire early... Do you think the extra pay will resolve the productivity and efficiency issues?

The most important reasons why staff leave NHS employment are, respectively: stress (66%), shortage of staff/resources (62%) and pay (55%). Pay has become markedly more salient since 2020 (winter 2020, 37%; spring 2022, 55%). I'd say all three can be related to pay and working conditions and hence staff retention (or lack of it)

I have no idea whether meaningful savings can be made on productivity and efficiency and neither do you although I can imagine you'll have an anecdote or three tucked up your sleeve.
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#53 User is offline   azul 

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Posted 30 July 2024 - 01:07 PM

View PostValley Blues, on 30 July 2024 - 08:02 AM, said:

So Rachael Reeves is questioned this morning about the fact that she has made a complete U-turn on assurances made by Wes Streeting 6 weeks ago during their election campaign.

How can she/they be trusted after they go back on their word less than a month in, was the question put to her.

Standard start to the answer of referring to the last 14 years but goes on to say they?ve discovered a ?22 billion black hole that the Tories had hidden from them.
Could do with Jeremy Hunt doing my books.

Makes you wonder how many more of their pre-elected assurances and promises will be scrapped due to Cilla Black style surprise, surprise moments.

Seems a little convenient, albeit expected really

I see the OBR and IFS are generally supportive of Reeves's claims. Not surprising as the IFS were accusing all parties of lying. It was only a matter of who was lying the most (not counting Reform) and clearly the Tories were massively in poll position on the count as they were actually proposing tax cuts and more spending.

This post has been edited by azul: 30 July 2024 - 01:08 PM

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#54 User is offline   isleaiw1 

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Posted 30 July 2024 - 02:26 PM

View Postazul, on 30 July 2024 - 09:22 AM, said:

The Tory/Lib Dem austerity was driven by dogma. It went well beyond what was required to put economy on an even keel. The Cameron/Clegg/Osbourne cuts went well beyond what Thatcher could only dream of. We are still living with this dogma 14 years later, add Brexit, Covid and Truss into the mix and we have a country on its knees put there by the Tories. At east we have a government of grownups now; far too timid but at least pointing in roughly on the right trajectory.


That's your opinion. I assume then you will object to the taking money from pensioners to give to doctors to also be dogma?

Grown ups, they are giving favours to their friends already, just like kids do...(aka the Tories)

370k houses, dont have to be beautiful - stand by for a bunch of ugly, depressing flats that no one wants to live in that become places that no one goes... if theyu can find the builders to build anything...
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#55 User is offline   isleaiw1 

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Posted 30 July 2024 - 02:34 PM

View Postazul, on 30 July 2024 - 01:00 PM, said:

The most important reasons why staff leave NHS employment are, respectively: stress (66%), shortage of staff/resources (62%) and pay (55%). Pay has become markedly more salient since 2020 (winter 2020, 37%; spring 2022, 55%). I'd say all three can be related to pay and working conditions and hence staff retention (or lack of it)

I have no idea whether meaningful savings can be made on productivity and efficiency and neither do you although I can imagine you'll have an anecdote or three tucked up your sleeve.


ah the good old exit interview forms, funny how now one ever says its run by idiots and I have enough money already...

I was just going off publicly available stats measuring productivity in the public sector... like this: https://www.ons.gov....rtodecember2023

Although junior docs reckon their pay has been eroded by a quarter since 2008, hence needing a 35% pay rise (maths clearly no longer important for a doctor)....!

View Postazul, on 30 July 2024 - 01:07 PM, said:

I see the OBR and IFS are generally supportive of Reeves's claims. Not surprising as the IFS were accusing all parties of lying. It was only a matter of who was lying the most (not counting Reform) and clearly the Tories were massively in poll position on the count as they were actually proposing tax cuts and more spending.


That could be a quote from Animal Farm, all parties are liars but some are more liars than others...

The moral of the original stands too...no equality with this govt either...
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#56 User is offline   azul 

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Posted 30 July 2024 - 05:28 PM

View Postisleaiw1, on 30 July 2024 - 02:34 PM, said:

ah the good old exit interview forms, funny how now one ever says its run by idiots and I have enough money already...


My fault for arguing with a zealot :wacko:
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#57 User is offline   isleaiw1 

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Posted 30 July 2024 - 06:37 PM

View Postazul, on 30 July 2024 - 05:28 PM, said:

My fault for arguing with a zealot :wacko:



just pointing out that they arent the most reliable indicators of why someone leaves as they tend to be filled in by people who work there who have a message to convey...

No zealot, just think that efficiency is dropping (see stats) and yet we are rewarding them with more money for achieving less. Now it may be and probably is poor management, too many pen pushers, who arent suitably trained, motivated, rewarded for success....

I get that its hard work in many areas and life and death, but I guess that is what they signed up to... or they are dealing with teenage kids and the hassle they cause, erm, isnt that teaching?? We are all stressed... less time taken sick for it in other sectors, perhaps because the package offered isnt as good and maybe because its managed more carefully / more done to resolve / less just let it run on and on...

who knows... but I'm damn sure its not as black and white as some of you like to claim...
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#58 User is online   Mr Mercury 

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Posted 30 July 2024 - 06:58 PM

Rumours of inheritance tax to be increased from 40 to 50%?is there a limit tax free before the taxable amount comes in?
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#59 User is offline   isleaiw1 

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Posted 30 July 2024 - 07:04 PM

View PostMr Mercury, on 30 July 2024 - 06:58 PM, said:

Rumours of inheritance tax to be increased from 40 to 50%?is there a limit tax free before the taxable amount comes in?


You can leave ?325k plus ?175k in your private residence. If a spouse leaves to partner and then they leave to kids, that amount effectively passes from first to surviving - so in a normal situation you can hand down ?1m. Amounts in DC pensions can be handed down outside of IHT as it stands as the money is held by trustees of the pension scheme and they choose what happens to it...

Expect rates and reliefs to be under review. Also a rumour that assets will be charged to CGT where relevant before IHT, so you could lose getting on for 60% of something you bought out of taxed income. No indexation on CGT these days so its not really a gain, if it goes up with inflation and real terms is no more valuable, you still pay tax on the gain....

Moral, spend it and enjoy it or give it away early.....
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#60 User is online   Mr Mercury 

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Posted 30 July 2024 - 07:28 PM

View Postisleaiw1, on 30 July 2024 - 07:04 PM, said:

You can leave ?325k plus ?175k in your private residence. If a spouse leaves to partner and then they leave to kids, that amount effectively passes from first to surviving - so in a normal situation you can hand down ?1m. Amounts in DC pensions can be handed down outside of IHT as it stands as the money is held by trustees of the pension scheme and they choose what happens to it...

Expect rates and reliefs to be under review. Also a rumour that assets will be charged to CGT where relevant before IHT, so you could lose getting on for 60% of something you bought out of taxed income. No indexation on CGT these days so its not really a gain, if it goes up with inflation and real terms is no more valuable, you still pay tax on the gain....

Moral, spend it and enjoy it or give it away early.....

Thanks for that.
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