[clarevoyant.]

calvin plummers socks, on 12 November 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

So in your eyes if I pull a girl tonight who is drunk but has okayed me to have sex with her I caan text my mnates once she has passed out to join in because she consented with me?

You given the impression that only have eyes for obese, topless blokes?

[Guest_freelander2_*]

Forget that it's a football club, why would any reputable business owner / business want a convicted rapist on the payroll?

[trickytrevsfanclub]

a kick in the balls, on 12 November 2014 - 03:34 PM, said:

You seem to think that as you don't have a daughter, you are more objective? That's how I read your post.

I would say the opposite, your less objective as you do not appreciate the emotional after effects of a serious sexual assault. A rape or serious sexual assault really does have deep psychosocial impacts on people. Its these effects that a great many males fail to consider when discussing the seriousness of sexual offences. Your many responses to the Evans debate, while not crass or crude(in the main) clearly fail to consider this. Hence, yours isn't a "fully balanced" view.

Cartman isn't spot on. There are a great many jobs out there that require a full CRB - and if found to be convicted of something like rape, the person wouldn't be able to go forward with the application, even though they have served their time. There a great number of jobs that also carry some social responsibility. A footballer is in the public eye, in the public domain, and seen to be a role model. Its not about "lads going to commit rape" because Evans did it - its a perception of the crime and the attitude towards the crime.








Well said



and there are lies on that site. The text from Macdonald to Evans to start with




something like "I`m with a girl" was actually "Ive got a bird". Go and read my post about this and then consider what that site says.

Have you got any examples of actual lies other than a different wording of the same thing?
That example is a bit like writing "are you coming for a bevvy" when you actually said "are you coming for a pint of bitter".
Ones slang(ish) the other is more correct. Not exactly a lie though is it?

This post has been edited by trickytrevsfanclub: 12 November 2014 - 06:46 PM

[Wooden Spoon]

trickytrevsfanclub, on 12 November 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

Have you got any examples of actual lies other than a different wording of the same thing?That example is a bit like writing "are you coming for a bevvy" when you actually said "are you coming for a pint of bitter". Ones slang(ish) the other is more correct. Not exactly a lie though is it?

read my earlier post on the matter




http://www.thecfss.c...pic=52101&st=20

This post has been edited by a kick in the balls: 12 November 2014 - 07:48 PM

[trickytrevsfanclub]

a kick in the balls said:

1415821506[/url]' post='[url="tel:<a href="tel:1054478">1054478</a>"]1054478[/url]']
read my earlier post on the matter




http://www.thecfss.c...pic=52101&amp;st=20

I've Read it and I think you're over analysing it. I don't know how old you are but when I was a single man in my late teens-20's women were known as birds. I wouldn't call them that now as I'm older and I hope wiser. I challenge anyone to say hand on heart that they've never referred to a woman as a bird. There was certainly no lack of respect as far as I was concerned it was just a term we used. There's far to many people nowadays reading too much into stuff trying to find offence in everything and anything.

<div>It's still not a lie is it? Give me another (better) example of one of these lies.&nbsp;</div>

This post has been edited by trickytrevsfanclub: 12 November 2014 - 08:10 PM

[Valley Blues]

If Evans, sorry I mean WHEN Evans, signs a professional contract with someone, how will this all be effected by the fact that he is currently on the Sex Offenders register indefinitely?? Will he be ok to go to the children's ward at Christmas with the rest of the squad? Will he be permitted to participate in any training involving the youth team?? I know that his conviction is in no way related to juveniles but he is still a convicted sex offender and I would imagine someone in a 'normal' job would be restricted as to their contact with certain groups in society. This doesn't prevent him from playing the game but being a professional footballer is more than 90 minutes on the pitch.

[Bonnyman]

Valley Blues, on 12 November 2014 - 08:11 PM, said:

If Evans, sorry I mean WHEN Evans, signs a professional contract with someone, how will this all be effected by the fact that he is currently on the Sex Offenders register indefinitely?? Will he be ok to go to the children's ward at Christmas with the rest of the squad? Will he be permitted to participate in any training involving the youth team?? I know that his conviction is in no way related to juveniles but he is still a convicted sex offender and I would imagine someone in a 'normal' job would be restricted as to their contact with certain groups in society. This doesn't prevent him from playing the game but being a professional footballer is more than 90 minutes on the pitch.

I would not let him anywhere near a hospital....he would have a field day in the sedation ward.

[jack'smyboy]

calvin plummers socks, on 12 November 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

So in your eyes if I pull a girl tonight who is drunk but has okayed me to have sex with her I caan text my mnates once she has passed out to join in because she consented with me?

WTF in my post implies I think THAT!!!!!

Search and Destroy asked why Evans was convicted and Macdonald wasn't, I gave him the reason the jury had different verdicts for the pair.

I'm female, I have a teenage daughter, you couldn't be wider of the mark with that post!

TIT

[calvin plummers socks]

clarevoyant., on 12 November 2014 - 06:32 PM, said:

You given the impression that only have eyes for obese, topless blokes?

And your mum

[Dancingwilldoit]

Spire-ite, on 12 November 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

That is what is supposed to happen.
How many people do you know, who have been on jury service, where this simply does not happen most of the time.
How many times have you read, locally or nationally, that the judge dismissed the jury to offer retrial.
I am no legal expert, just going on what I've read, seen and heard. That is all.

It wasn't only the original jury though was it. The court of appeal turned down his first application for a re trial presumably because they read the evidence from all parties and not just a load of one sided bunkum on Evans's web site.

[Wooden Spoon]

freelander2, on 12 November 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

Forget that it's a football club, why would any reputable business owner / business want a convicted rapist on the payroll?

Absolutely spot on. Damage to reputation etc could be huge, and now the Blunts 2 main sponsors threaten to pull out- I guess they don't want to be seen to be sponsoring an unrepentant rapist.

Best for all concerned if he left the country to resume his sports career.

[Radders]

firedodger, on 12 November 2014 - 04:58 PM, said:

I don't consider footballers as role models, I struggle to single many people out today in our throw away celebrity culture that I would point out to my kids as role models.
At the same time football is a family business, every weekend thousands of kids go to matches with their families, thousands of kids have shirts with Rooney, terry, Ferdinand and other idols names on them, I'm sure parents don't look on them as role models but none the less kids want to be associated with them. If Evans comes back into English football then up and down the country kids will be watching him and start with parents will be asked 'why are they booing him?' And 'what's a rapist?'
I just think the football business needs to exercise caution and suspend any employment, in the interests of all parties, until all appeals are over.
As for him apologising I've said elsewhere I'm sure he has very skilled PR people available who could word him a suitable statement that would earn him some brownie points, and maybe an offer of a charitable donation might help warm some people up to him.

Making a charitable donation is a nice thought but (and I'm talking from the experience of working in the sector) if Evans offered to make a donation to a charity that dealt with women who have to live with the consequences of rape then they'd probably tear him a new one. I doubt many charities would accept it, we are stony broke but money from that would just kill you. The implications would haunt a charity for the rest of its days.
However I agree wholeheartedly with you on the role model bit.
What really annoys me is that if I committed that crime I would lose my job. My Directors wouldn't say - "He was a good manager so we'll see how the land lies when he gets out" they'd just sack me. They would do the same if I was caught taking illegal substances, and the same if I was caught drunk in charge of a vehicle (not that there's any chance of that as I can't drive) but the fact is, certain offences I couldn't get away with and I'd have to live with the consequences. Evans has served his time and I'm a big believer in people being given a second chance (we've worked with ex offenders trying to make that happen) but Evans isn't in the same position. He went to prison and time stood still for him, his club were waiting - seemingly with open arms - for his release.

[Spire-Power]

Radders, on 13 November 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

Making a charitable donation is a nice thought but (and I'm talking from the experience of working in the sector) if Evans offered to make a donation to a charity that dealt with women who have to live with the consequences of rape then they'd probably tear him a new one. I doubt many charities would accept it, we are stony broke but money from that would just kill you. The implications would haunt a charity for the rest of its days.
However I agree wholeheartedly with you on the role model bit.
What really annoys me is that if I committed that crime I would lose my job. My Directors wouldn't say - "He was a good manager so we'll see how the land lies when he gets out" they'd just sack me. They would do the same if I was caught taking illegal substances, and the same if I was caught drunk in charge of a vehicle (not that there's any chance of that as I can't drive) but the fact is, certain offences I couldn't get away with and I'd have to live with the consequences. Evans has served his time and I'm a big believer in people being given a second chance (we've worked with ex offenders trying to make that happen) but Evans isn't in the same position. He went to prison and time stood still for him, his club were waiting - seemingly with open arms - for his release.

For Sheffield United FC the issue is all about this: £
Evans has scored a lot of goals and is potentially worth a lot of money to the club, as a player who can help them get promoted or as a sale.
If the offender had been a fringe player they would have ended his registration when he was convicted. If the offender had been a player they were looking to offload anyway the conviction would have been a bonus, making it easy to get shut of him earlier. In such a scenario there would have been relatively little media interest in the matter. The issue of whether he should be allowed to resume playing has imo become so big in the media because he has a value, even though he doesn't play for a big club.

This post has been edited by Spire-Power: 13 November 2014 - 10:40 AM

[Radders]

Spire-Power, on 13 November 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

For Sheffield United FC the issue is all about this: £
Evans has scored a lot of goals and is potentially worth a lot of money to the club, as a player who can help them get promoted or as a sale.
If the offender had been a fringe player they would have ended his registration when he was convicted. If the offender had been a player they were looking to offload anyway the conviction would have been a bonus, making it easy to get shut of him earlier. In such a scenario there would have been relatively little media interest in the matter. The issue of whether he should be allowed to resume playing has imo become so big in the media because he has a value, even though he doesn't play for a big club.

That's very true - and there's the rub. Are we helping to facilitate interest in this man by going on and on about it or are we making sure people remember his actions. If we stop talking about it will it become quite simply, 'something that will go away'. I'm sure Mr Evans is hoping that will be the case

[lindo-spireite]

calvin plummers socks, on 13 November 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

And your mum

Banta

[Spire-Power]

Radders, on 13 November 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

That's very true - and there's the rub. Are we helping to facilitate interest in this man by going on and on about it or are we making sure people remember his actions. If we stop talking about it will it become quite simply, 'something that will go away'. I'm sure Mr Evans is hoping that will be the case

There has been endless debate around the country about the basic morality of giving a second chance to a convicted rapist but, when it comes down to it, for SUFC it's all about greed and the hunger for money and success.

[Xerxes]

a kick in the balls, on 13 November 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

Best for all concerned if he left the country to resume his sports career.

there are a lot of countries that won't let him in with his criminal record so his options will be limited

[firedodger]

Radders, on 13 November 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

Making a charitable donation is a nice thought but (and I'm talking from the experience of working in the sector) if Evans offered to make a donation to a charity that dealt with women who have to live with the consequences of rape then they'd probably tear him a new one. I doubt many charities would accept it, we are stony broke but money from that would just kill you. The implications would haunt a charity for the rest of its days.
However I agree wholeheartedly with you on the role model bit.
What really annoys me is that if I committed that crime I would lose my job. My Directors wouldn't say - "He was a good manager so we'll see how the land lies when he gets out" they'd just sack me. They would do the same if I was caught taking illegal substances, and the same if I was caught drunk in charge of a vehicle (not that there's any chance of that as I can't drive) but the fact is, certain offences I couldn't get away with and I'd have to live with the consequences. Evans has served his time and I'm a big believer in people being given a second chance (we've worked with ex offenders trying to make that happen) but Evans isn't in the same position. He went to prison and time stood still for him, his club were waiting - seemingly with open arms - for his release.

I realise the charitable donation is a bit of a minefield, it would have to be handled sensitively but I'm sure his money (hypothetically) could be put to good use somewhere.
And I'm in the same boat as you mate, if I was found guilty of rape and served a prison sentence, not only would I be sacked I would also lose all my pension as well, I don't see why Evans should be any different.

[Town_Fan]

NOKIN, on 13 November 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

This sums it up for me. Jason Burt in the Daily Telegraph

"No-one is saying that Evans 'can't do anything. He can work again; he can re-join society; he is a young man; he can contribute and integrate and get on with his life. But he has sacrificed his chance to live the gilded life of a professional footballer".

There are many jobs he could do, just because he's a good footballer doesn't give him the god given right to be one. Many, many people have to build second careers and they just get on with it, I had to do it myself. I was a good soldier, reached WO1 but it ended and I had to move on. So should he.

A job is a job, I wonder what you think would be suitable for him. Conversely I wonder what you think should bar someone "the gilded life of a professional footballer".

Can you perhaps put some kind of sliding scale so you can preach to us what is acceptable and what isnt? Thanks.