[Search & Destroy]

newboldsteve, on 12 November 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

the girl didn't accuse anyone of rape cheds brother videoed ched through the hotel window and text the video around someone reported it to the police . the police contacted the girl whose only stetment said I cant remember anything

But if she consented with one bloke, how comes she was too drunk to consent with the other?

Was she too drunk or not?

[Sammy Spireite]

I'd be very surprised if he doesn't end up playing again for Shef Utd, given the time/effort they've shown him since he was convicted.

Certainly, David Weir visited him at least twice in prison, whilst he was manager. He was also given training plans by the club, whilst inside.

[newboldsteve]

Search and Destroy, on 12 November 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

So the police and not the girl pressed charges?
I didn't think it worked like that.

yes that's right a crime is a crime weather the victim makes a complaint or not

[Phil V 72]

SpireiteFitzy, on 12 November 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

Why Eastern Europe? If he isn't fit to compete in the British leagues then he shouldn't be fit to compete anywhere. Unless your inferring something about Eastern Europeans

I think for his own sake, if he wants to play football so badly, he would be better to leave the eye of the storm and go somewhere remote, where word doesn't spread and the culture is different.

[jack'smyboy]

Search and Destroy, on 12 November 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

But if she consented with one bloke, how comes she was too drunk to consent with the other?

Was she too drunk or not?

Going back to a hotel room with Macdonald was enough for there to be 'reasonable doubt' about whether or not consent was given.

This post has been edited by jack'smyboy: 12 November 2014 - 01:16 PM

[JonB]

Xerxes, on 12 November 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

several points here - to your fist point, he should never have been released until he admitted the crime, if he denies it he should still be in jail. He has not served the full term.

Him being released i suspect has nothing to do with admitting the crime, i'm no legal\prison expert but serving half a sentence and then being "released on licence" seems to be the norm for lots of different offenders. As mentioned as well, again, he's never going to admit guilt\say sorry about anything to do with the case until this final appeal is held. He obviously has his beliefs about what happened and seems to be exhausting all possible options to try and prove his innocence.

Xerxes, on 12 November 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

Secondly, football clubs have a responsibility to their community, they are family oriented and are heavily involved with young children. Rapists should not be allowed to work in the industry.

In a nice ideal world clubs have a responsibility to their community but in reality they are more businesses that require success and that success comes on the pitch from the players they employ hence why the likes of Lee Hughes came back into football. Clubs have separate community related employees and will use their players for things but they would just ensure someone like Evans isnt put into a situation where it would be an issue.

Xerxes, on 12 November 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

Finally,you have not got a clue. Of course different crimes are treated differently, always have been and always will be. Drink drivers will not get a driving job and rapists will not teach children and should not play professional football.

Drink driving is specific to driving jobs, convicted rapists would fail checks for jobs related to children etc but neither of these are relevant to a footballer...my point was how do you deem which offences are not suitable for a footballer to have committed and been convicted off so they cant play? He's not driving and there are numerous footballers with driving offences against them and he's not working with kids so that doesnt come into play.

By the way before anyone thinks i am i'm not defending Evans in any way here, i hope that we dont have him coming anywhere near the Proact as a Chesterfield player and i think any club taking him on has to be very mindful of the situation they are getting into but he was employed as a footballer and once released he is free to source employment in a role that he can do with a criminal conviction...as it stands being a footballer is one of them.

[calvin plummers socks]

jack, on 12 November 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

Going back to a hotel room with Macdonald was enough for there to be 'reasonable doubt' about whether or not consent was given.

So in your eyes if I pull a girl tonight who is drunk but has okayed me to have sex with her I caan text my mnates once she has passed out to join in because she consented with me?

[JonB]

calvin plummers socks, on 12 November 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

So in your eyes if I pull a girl tonight who is drunk but has okayed me to have sex with her I caan text my mnates once she has passed out to join in because she consented with me?

I think he is talking about Macdonald not being convicted...not Evans. At least thats how i read it.

This post has been edited by JonB: 12 November 2014 - 03:05 PM

[Wooden Spoon]

Goku, on 12 November 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

I highly doubt it, no. What "lesser awareness of some actions" come into play here? I dont want to see women raped as much as you don't, ive got a mother a missus and close female friends but im pretty confident that ched evans isnt inspiring young football fans to go out and commit rape nor will he do it again, if you think middle east suggesting that ched has his genitals removed via scissors is, ahem, "more objective" than what im saying then I would suggest that you have another think.

What cartman is saying is spot on

You seem to think that as you don't have a daughter, you are more objective? That's how I read your post.

I would say the opposite, your less objective as you do not appreciate the emotional after effects of a serious sexual assault. A rape or serious sexual assault really does have deep psychosocial impacts on people. Its these effects that a great many males fail to consider when discussing the seriousness of sexual offences. Your many responses to the Evans debate, while not crass or crude(in the main) clearly fail to consider this. Hence, yours isn't a "fully balanced" view.

Cartman isn't spot on. There are a great many jobs out there that require a full CRB - and if found to be convicted of something like rape, the person wouldn't be able to go forward with the application, even though they have served their time. There a great number of jobs that also carry some social responsibility. A footballer is in the public eye, in the public domain, and seen to be a role model. Its not about "lads going to commit rape" because Evans did it - its a perception of the crime and the attitude towards the crime.

Waller is my hero, on 12 November 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

Evans was in a high profile position & let his ego get the best of him...he did something wrong & he should deal with the consequences. He is in the public eye all the time because of his career..wherever he goes he will tarnish the reputation & integrity of the club/company he works for.
I'm afraid if you commit a terrible crime...you have to deal with it for the rest of your life...i have no sympathy for him whatsover.
He is making it worse by not even considering the victim & the victims family & friends - not one effort of remorse has exited his mouth & thats what is the shameful thing about it.

Well said

Spire-ite, on 12 November 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

All I can say is, go on Ched Evans's website.
Read, and watch the clips, then make your minds up.

and there are lies on that site. The text from Macdonald to Evans to start with




something like "I`m with a girl" was actually "Ive got a bird". Go and read my post about this and then consider what that site says.

[lindo-spireite]

Just wondering, will people change their stance if he wins his appeal?

[dim view]

lindo-spireite, on 12 November 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

Just wondering, will people change their stance if he wins his appeal?

they would have to, otherwise what they wrote would be libelous.
What's more interesting is what those who have shown absolute blind faith up to now in the British judicial system would say. Fishini for instance.

[Wooden Spoon]

lindo-spireite, on 12 November 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

Just wondering, will people change their stance if he wins his appeal?

If his appeal is successful, and his conviction overturned then he is no longer a convicted rapist.

[Goku]

a kick in the balls, on 12 November 2014 - 03:34 PM, said:

I would say the opposite, your less objective as you do not appreciate the emotional after effects of a serious sexual assault. A rape or serious sexual assault really does have deep psychosocial impacts on people. Its these effects that a great many males fail to consider when discussing the seriousness of sexual offences. Your many responses to the Evans debate, while not crass or crude(in the main) clearly fail to consider this. Hence, yours isn't a "fully balanced" view.

Cartman isn't spot on. There are a great many jobs out there that require a full CRB - and if found to be convicted of something like rape, the person wouldn't be able to go forward with the application, even though they have served their time. There a great number of jobs that also carry some social responsibility. A footballer is in the public eye, in the public domain, and seen to be a role model. Its not about "lads going to commit rape" because Evans did it - its a perception of the crime and the attitude towards the crime.

No matter how much you or others write "Ched Evans is a role model" it will not make it true because it isn't. People can make their own decisions on who and what they want to be as they are growing up. Ched Evans will absolutely 100% not enter into the equation. As for your last line, I'd say it's going to deter any bad/lax attitude towards rape - Ched ended up in prison for what he did... I don't think many young men fancy prison.

Re your first paragraph, I have full sympathy towards rape victims, I don't know how you want me to prove this but I do. I just struggle to sympathise with someone who takes to Twitter bragging about how she's going to spend the money she thinks she's going to obtain from the case. As I've said before, that is a big f**k off slap in the face to rape victims who remember the horrific events they have suffered. What she did was trivialise rape as a means to monetary gain which is a horrible thing to do.

This post has been edited by Goku: 12 November 2014 - 04:34 PM

[firedodger]

dim view, on 12 November 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

they would have to, otherwise what they wrote would be libelous.
What's more interesting is what those who have shown absolute blind faith up to now in the British judicial system would say. Fishini for instance.

Or to look at it another way, if any appeal was thrown out, and the conviction stood, would the apologists (sorry can't think of a better word) accept it as a sound conviction? Or would they still say 'no I don't believe it, I've read his website, I've seen her tweets etc etc etc'?

[stocko_93]

Don’t really see what we are debating about here, Ched Evans will be playing again regardless of what is said on here. I don’t really see why he shouldn’t play to be honest, i know he was convicted in a court of law, but it all doesn’t add up to me. But we will see what comes of his appeal. Training with his former employee isn’t really a massive shock as everyone knew that would happen. Why wouldn’t someone take a chance on a proven goal scorer?

[firedodger]

Goku, on 12 November 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

No matter how much you or others write "Ched Evans is a role model" it will not make it true because it isn't. People can make their own decisions on who and what they want to be as they are growing up. Ched Evans will absolutely 100% not enter into the equation. As for your last line, I'd say it's going to deter any bad/lax attitude towards rape - Ched ended up in prison for what he did... I don't think many young men fancy prison.

Re your first paragraph, I have full sympathy towards rape victims, I don't know how you want me to prove this but I do. I just struggle to sympathise with someone who takes to Twitter bragging about how she's going to spend the money she thinks she's going to obtain from the case. As I've said before, that is a big f**k off slap in the face to rape victims who remember the horrific events they have suffered. What she did was trivialise rape as a means to monetary gain which is a horrible thing to do.

I don't consider footballers as role models, I struggle to single many people out today in our throw away celebrity culture that I would point out to my kids as role models.
At the same time football is a family business, every weekend thousands of kids go to matches with their families, thousands of kids have shirts with Rooney, terry, Ferdinand and other idols names on them, I'm sure parents don't look on them as role models but none the less kids want to be associated with them. If Evans comes back into English football then up and down the country kids will be watching him and start with parents will be asked 'why are they booing him?' And 'what's a rapist?'
I just think the football business needs to exercise caution and suspend any employment, in the interests of all parties, until all appeals are over.
As for him apologising I've said elsewhere I'm sure he has very skilled PR people available who could word him a suitable statement that would earn him some brownie points, and maybe an offer of a charitable donation might help warm some people up to him.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

It would appear that one of the Blunts' sponsors have stated they'll pull out if Evans returns.

Money talks.

Edit: make that two sponsors.

This post has been edited by MDCCCLXVI: 12 November 2014 - 06:11 PM

[Westbars Spireite]

MDCCCLXVI, on 12 November 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

It would appear that one of the Blunts' sponsors have stated they'll pull out if Evans returns.

Money talks.

Edit: make that two sponsors.

That sort of thing will kibosh any deal without doubt.