[dim view]

frearsghost, on 02 August 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

Turners interview, upbeat as it was, clearly indicated the future. There was no talk of promotion or Championship football. That is now defunct marketing propaganda and has been consigned to the trash can. The new future, it seems, is to build a secure League One outfit that fits the business plan; lots of lucrative local derbies and relatively attractive opposition; just enough to keep the fans on their toes.

Are you trying to argue that that's not sensible?.
As a long suffering supporter, it's very sensible in my view. The business plan includes investment in developing youth. If by some miracle that throws up gems all at the same time and we get promotion, then brill.

[sophocles]

dim view, on 02 August 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

Are you trying to argue that that's not sensible?.
As a long suffering supporter, it's very sensible in my view. The business plan includes investment in developing youth. If by some miracle that throws up gems all at the same time and we get promotion, then brill.

Well that sounds sensible, if uninspiring. How sensible, though, will it be if the policy results in plummeting attendances, lower merchandise and hospitality sales, as well as lower future season ticket sales ? It could possibly lead to the club going into a downward spiral with decent players preferring clubs with more ambition.

[dim view]

sophocles, on 02 August 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

Well that sounds sensible, if uninspiring. How sensible, though, will it be if the policy results in plummeting attendances, lower merchandise and hospitality sales, as well as lower future season ticket sales ? It could possibly lead to the club going into a downward spiral with decent players preferring clubs with more ambition.

The current budget should guarantee us L1 stability providing recruitment is sensible. That's the bottom line, and if it fails we are in trouble. That's why DA has invested in Mitch with a 5 year contract, to minimise that risk.

[Stockholm Spireite]

dim view, on 02 August 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

Are you trying to argue that that's not sensible?.
As a long suffering supporter, it's very sensible in my view. The business plan includes investment in developing youth. If by some miracle that throws up gems all at the same time and we get promotion, then brill.

sophocles, on 02 August 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

Well that sounds sensible, if uninspiring. How sensible, though, will it be if the policy results in plummeting attendances, lower merchandise and hospitality sales, as well as lower future season ticket sales ? It could possibly lead to the club going into a downward spiral with decent players preferring clubs with more ambition.

dim view, on 02 August 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

The current budget should guarantee us L1 stability providing recruitment is sensible. That's the bottom line, and if it fails we are in trouble. That's why DA has invested in Mitch with a 5 year contract, to minimise that risk.

DV - I agree with you to a point. It is sensible, if done well over time, but this has been a summer fire sale, IMHO. Sophocles sees the iceberg ahead, too. Planning for losing Roberts and Ryan should have been a priority, with all the noises that were made so early. Unless GR's replacement was Gboly all along? The club had known Jimmy's situation since January, so somebody should have been on the radar - either to enhance the squad in number and quality, or a direct replacement. Would you take a a fully fit Oscar Gobern right now as somebody (or indeed, a warm body)?

Replacing 2 players in the off-season is sensible for most clubs. At the same time, you would expect DS to be saying to DA/CT/Mitch "these are my own targets, let get the ball rolling". The wheels have fallen off when Clucas and Tendayi were sold - this is where it is no longer sensible. I'm not sure of a club that sells half it's starting outfield players is acting in he correct manner.

The unwritten message, or my own interpretation is this: The previous words of "consolidate and push on for promotion" is true from DA & CT, but only in this sense: consolidation this season is classed as staying in L1. Not being relegated is the new goal, with the promise of more money coming from the new TV deal for next year. The grabbing hands are grabbing what they can now, and avoiding relegation for a team that reached the play-offs is the new goal. The higher income streams of next year is like waiting to collect an inheritance from that dotty old relative.

The new manager, having seen his 'ballers' leave will be given free reign to play whatever style of football it takes to keep us above the drop zone. He has the perfect alibi for when the brown stuff hits the fan - "I've seen half my starting unit sold from under me". I'm not looking forward to this season. DS's greatest achievement could be seen as keeping us one place above the trap door - how expectations have changed...

It seems strange that Mitch gets a 5 year deal to find the players of potential and watch them grow with us, when the suggestion seems to be we need players in the here and now to keep us afloat in L1. Not that Mitch doesn't deserve his new deal, just that his remit and the club's philosophy don't seem to match up.

[hilly81]

Stockholm Spireite, on 02 August 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

DV - I agree with you to a point. It is sensible, if done well over time, but this has been a summer fire sale, IMHO. Sophocles sees the iceberg ahead, too. Planning for losing Roberts and Ryan should have been a priority, with all the noises that were made so early. Unless GR's replacement was Gboly all along? The club had known Jimmy's situation since January, so somebody should have been on the radar - either to enhance the squad in number and quality, or a direct replacement. Would you take a a fully fit Oscar Gobern right now as somebody (or indeed, a warm body)?

Replacing 2 players in the off-season is sensible for most clubs. At the same time, you would expect DS to be saying to DA/CT/Mitch "these are my own targets, let get the ball rolling". The wheels have fallen off when Clucas and Tendayi were sold - this is where it is no longer sensible. I'm not sure of a club that sells half it's starting outfield players is acting in he correct manner.

The unwritten message, or my own interpretation is this: The previous words of "consolidate and push on for promotion" is true from DA & CT, but only in this sense: consolidation this season is classed as staying in L1. Not being relegated is the new goal, with the promise of more money coming from the new TV deal for next year. The grabbing hands are grabbing what they can now, and avoiding relegation for a team that reached the play-offs is the new goal. The higher income streams of next year is like waiting to collect an inheritance from that dotty old relative.

The new manager, having seen his 'ballers' leave will be given free reign to play whatever style of football it takes to keep us above the drop zone. He has the perfect alibi for when the brown stuff hits the fan - "I've seen half my starting unit sold from under me". I'm not looking forward to this season. DS's greatest achievement could be seen as keeping us one place above the trap door - how expectations have changed...

It seems strange that Mitch gets a 5 year deal to find the players of potential and watch them grow with us, when the suggestion seems to be we need players in the here and now to keep us afloat in L1. Not that Mitch doesn't deserve his new deal, just that his remit and the club's philosophy don't seem to match up.

I have just seen a Tweet suggesting Gobern is on trial at QPR!

[dim view]

Stockholm Spireite, on 02 August 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

DV - I agree with you to a point. It is sensible, if done well over time, but this has been a summer fire sale, IMHO. Sophocles sees the iceberg ahead, too. Planning for losing Roberts and Ryan should have been a priority, with all the noises that were made so early. Unless GR's replacement was Gboly all along? The club had known Jimmy's situation since January, so somebody should have been on the radar - either to enhance the squad in number and quality, or a direct replacement. Would you take a a fully fit Oscar Gobern right now as somebody (or indeed, a warm body)?

Replacing 2 players in the off-season is sensible for most clubs. At the same time, you would expect DS to be saying to DA/CT/Mitch "these are my own targets, let get the ball rolling". The wheels have fallen off when Clucas and Tendayi were sold - this is where it is no longer sensible. I'm not sure of a club that sells half it's starting outfield players is acting in he correct manner.

It's juggling isn't it. The balls that have to be kept in the air are :-

1. the selling ball. Whoever is sold, sell them when the price is highest.
2. the recruitment ball. Recruit the best we can with the money we've got.
3. the timing ball. We might have more useable funds for recruitment in one week than we have in another week.
4. the opportunity ball. One or maybe two of our young 'uns might be ready for the step up.

All in all, I'm thinking that CT has not dropped any balls yet, although he's wobbling. In fact if it's in the best long term interests of the team, ie, we have maximised our income and we have the right players by the end of the transfer window, I'm prepared to put up with an uncomfortable August.

Not ideal, but a working compromise. I think only Fishini is suggesting that no investment in the team will be made.

[sophocles]

dim view, on 02 August 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

It's juggling isn't it. The balls that have to be kept in the air are :-

1. the selling ball. Whoever is sold, sell them when the price is highest.
2. the recruitment ball. Recruit the best we can with the money we've got.
3. the timing ball. We might have more useable funds for recruitment in one week than we have in another week.
4. the opportunity ball. One or maybe two of our young 'uns might be ready for the step up.

All in all, I'm thinking that CT has not dropped any balls yet, although he's wobbling. In fact if it's in the best long term interests of the team, ie, we have maximised our income and we have the right players by the end of the transfer window, I'm prepared to put up with an uncomfortable August.

Not ideal, but a working compromise. I think only Fishini is suggesting that no investment in the team will be made.

I don't believe anyone is suggesting that NO investment will be made - like me they're thinking that NOT ENOUGH investment will be made. Of course it all depends on what you consider to be enough - is it enough to just survive, or enough to get anywhere near last season's levels? I completely agree with those who saw as early as the sale of Cooper and Doyle, that the main aim was financial retrenchment. The inevitable and completely foreseeable consequence is that this season will be one in which the only aim is L1 survival, and that's what we'd all better get used to.

[malcolmr13]

dim view, on 02 August 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

It's juggling isn't it. The balls that have to be kept in the air are :-

1. the selling ball. Whoever is sold, sell them when the price is highest.
2. the recruitment ball. Recruit the best we can with the money we've got.
3. the timing ball. We might have more useable funds for recruitment in one week than we have in another week.
4. the opportunity ball. One or maybe two of our young 'uns might be ready for the step up.

All in all, I'm thinking that CT has not dropped any balls yet, although he's wobbling. In fact if it's in the best long term interests of the team, ie, we have maximised our income and we have the right players by the end of the transfer window, I'm prepared to put up with an uncomfortable August.

Not ideal, but a working compromise. I think only Fishini is suggesting that no investment in the team will be made.

I am so relieved someone shares my view: the timing between balls 1 and 2 is short but could yield benefit if the M and S arrivals are quality players.
We were right to hang on as long as DA/CT nerves allowed to get the best deals for Clucas and Darikwa.
Now its time to show how far ours stretch.
Some have snapped too soon.

[sophocles]

malcolmr13, on 02 August 2015 - 12:53 PM, said:

I am so relieved someone shares my view: the timing between balls 1 and 2 is short but could yield benefit if the M and S arrivals are quality players.
We were right to hang on as long as DA/CT nerves allowed to get the best deals for Clucas and Darikwa.
Now its time to show how far ours stretch.
Some have snapped too soon.

What a ridiculous comment. So you think no-one has the right to express concern at the need to recruit almost half a team and have them ready for a tough start to the season in 5 days? I'd describe your attitude as extremely complacent.

[dim view]

malcolmr13, on 02 August 2015 - 12:53 PM, said:

I am so relieved someone shares my view: the timing between balls 1 and 2 is short but could yield benefit if the M and S arrivals are quality players.
We were right to hang on as long as DA/CT nerves allowed to get the best deals for Clucas and Darikwa.
Now its time to show how far ours stretch.
Some have snapped too soon.

CT is keeping the balls up, but he's balancing on one leg on a beach ball at the same time.

[azul]

hilly81, on 02 August 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

I have just seen a Tweet suggesting Gobern is on trial at QPR!

He has been on trial for a few weeks I think but haven't noticed him playing until today

Now he would definitely be in Turner's £8K p/w category

Wonder if he'll be knocking out door down Monday begging for £2K p/w

[Spireite-Karl]

dim view, on 02 August 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

It's juggling isn't it. The balls that have to be kept in the air are :-

1. the selling ball. Whoever is sold, sell them when the price is highest.
2. the recruitment ball. Recruit the best we can with the money we've got.
3. the timing ball. We might have more useable funds for recruitment in one week than we have in another week.
4. the opportunity ball. One or maybe two of our young 'uns might be ready for the step up.

All in all, I'm thinking that CT has not dropped any balls yet, although he's wobbling. In fact if it's in the best long term interests of the team, ie, we have maximised our income and we have the right players by the end of the transfer window, I'm prepared to put up with an uncomfortable August.

Not ideal, but a working compromise. I think only Fishini is suggesting that no investment in the team will be made.

What about...

5) Total balls up??

[frearsghost]

dim view, on 02 August 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

Are you trying to argue that that's not sensible?.
As a long suffering supporter, it's very sensible in my view. The business plan includes investment in developing youth. If by some miracle that throws up gems all at the same time and we get promotion, then brill.

It's very sensible as long as fans are quite clear about what they are signing up for. That's five more years of League One football perhaps producing good players, for other clubs. I'll be straight with you I want to see Championship football. After all there has to be a point in turning up every week and it's not the challenge of reaching fifty points every season.

[dim view]

frearsghost, on 02 August 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

It's very sensible as long as fans are quite clear about what they are signing up for. That's five more years of League One football perhaps producing good players, for other clubs. I'll be straight with you I want to see Championship football. After all there has to be a point in turning up every week and it's not the challenge of reaching fifty points every season.

...and which is more likely. Championship football because a Sugar Daddy has bought us, or Championship football because a five year plan has worked?.

DA couldn't have been clearer about what he wants CFC fans to sign up for.

[malcolmr13]

sophocles, on 02 August 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

What a ridiculous comment. So you think no-one has the right to express concern at the need to recruit almost half a team and have them ready for a tough start to the season in 5 days? I'd describe your attitude as extremely complacent.

I am relaxed about your opinion of my views but I see no justification in your assertion that I think expressions of concern should somehow be contained. There are pages of them here freely delivered and I read most with interest.

[frearsghost]

dim view, on 02 August 2015 - 03:06 PM, said:

...and which is more likely. Championship football because a Sugar Daddy has bought us, or Championship football because a five year plan has worked?.

DA couldn't have been clearer about what he wants CFC fans to sign up for.

Can't disagree with that.

[BlueRover52]

frearsghost, on 02 August 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

Turners interview, upbeat as it was, clearly indicated the future. There was no talk of promotion or Championship football. That is now defunct marketing propaganda and has been consigned to the trash can. The new future, it seems, is to build a secure League One outfit that fits the business plan; lots of lucrative local derbies and relatively attractive opposition; just enough to keep the fans on their toes.

Paul Cook was too successful and it's hard not to believe that Turner and Allen breathed a huge sigh of relief when we were beaten by Preston as promotion would have fired a canonball through the business plan. As a kid, I poured scorn on those who said Chesterfield don't want promotion but I've seen enough now to believe it has a ring of truth and that Mr Allen is not the man who is going to deliver and break through that glass ceiling.

At the moment we are weak and it doesn't need a rocket scientist to believe Saunders had very few players, if any, lined up until a few days ago. The club also needs to realise a struggling team will also hit the business plan if attendances fall.

Agree totally.No exciting signings made as yet and with the way we go about our business not likely to.We will end up with players on short term contracts who will use us to get in the shop window to further their careers.Loanees will be another option.We may get some sort of success but with that scenario it will be shortlived with no continuity.We have been there before.

[DIFH]

a kick in the balls, on 01 August 2015 - 11:08 PM, said:

We have some tough games to start the season with as well.

I can't see an easy one through the season, show me one.

[spireitewolf]

fishini said:

1438466017[/url]"]1438466017[/url]' post='[url="tel:[url="tel:1134471"]1134471[/url]"]1134471[/url]']IMO we have what we have. Nothing more nothing less. We have all been well conned. I really bought into the club moving forward thing. I will never be conned again I have lost faith in DA and his board of clowns

Think I got txxt tattooed on forehead for buying STAnd I been watching town over 60 yr

This post has been edited by spireitewolf: 03 August 2015 - 04:14 PM

[Bluekent]

fishini, on 01 August 2015 - 10:10 PM, said:

Why? He is being paid well and as of now he's done bugga all to earn it

Maybe he's not aloud to do anything. Not gonna sign anyone without turnip or uncle Daves say so is he?