[Snowflake McBedwetter]

BlueDay, on 08 February 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

You've stated that somewhere else recently. Makes for a good audit!

Thought it was worth another post!

Dave Allen isn't daft. He has hardly had a love affair with football, and his disdain for supporters is well known. There is a reason he's here.

[60s 70s Spireite]

BlueDay, on 08 February 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

You've stated that somewhere else recently. Makes for a good audit!

Thing is, there is little chance of DA recovering much of his family's £4M share subscription because of the losses incurred since he paid for them. He might get his loans back, but not the whole of his investment. Unless we sell one of current players for £5M.

[Snowflake McBedwetter]

60s 70s Spireite, on 08 February 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

Thing is, there is little chance of DA recovering much of his family's £4M share subscription because of the losses incurred since he paid for them. He might get his loans back, but not the whole of his investment. Unless we sell one of current players for £5M.

Don't forget the yearly interest he charges on the debt/loan.

[60s 70s Spireite]

KevinArnottsGoldenBoot, on 08 February 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:

Don't forget the yearly interest he charges on the debt/loan.

Last balance sheet showed a deficiency of £3.2M, of which DA and family stand to lose 80%. Then that assumes the ground is worth the carrying value of £13M. It's a big stretch to say his interest covers for his potential loss on his shares.

[Snowflake McBedwetter]

60s 70s Spireite, on 08 February 2016 - 04:51 PM, said:

Last balance sheet showed a deficiency of £3.2M, of which DA and family stand to lose 80%. Then that assumes the ground is worth the carrying value of £13M. It's a big stretch to say his interest covers for his potential loss on his shares.

I don't know how much interest he charges on the loan/debt... but presumably it amounts to a healthy sum per year.

There is a conflict of interest in the sense that all roads lead to DA.

I'm not suggesting anything illegal, I'm just pointing out he's in it for the money (which is fair enough)and that he benefits from the debt increasing.

As someone alluded earlier, it's a bit like the crash of 2008. Money is created through debt.

[60s 70s Spireite]

KevinArnottsGoldenBoot, on 08 February 2016 - 05:06 PM, said:

I don't know how much interest he charges on the loan/debt... but presumably it amounts to a healthy sum per year.

There is a conflict of interest in the sense that all roads lead to DA.

I'm not suggesting anything illegal, I'm just pointing out he's in it for the money (which is fair enough)and that he benefits from the debt increasing.

As someone alluded earlier, it's a bit like the crash of 2008. Money is created through debt.

You are just plain wrong. As Roman says elsewhere, he is in it to recover as much of his losses as possible, He is not in it for overall profit any more. That ship has sailed.

[Snowflake McBedwetter]

60s 70s Spireite, on 08 February 2016 - 05:20 PM, said:

You are just plain wrong. As Roman says elsewhere, he is in it to recover as much of his losses as possible, He is not in it for overall profit any more. That ship has sailed.

Well if you say I'm plain wrong then I surely must be.

I note you haven't divvied up the interest received, and that your assumption is that he'll lose everything re-potential losses (he hasn't lost anything yet).

Allen isn't an idiot when it comes to making money. And if you think he came to CFC on a mercy mission then you're way off.

This post has been edited by KevinArnottsGoldenBoot: 08 February 2016 - 05:50 PM

[60s 70s Spireite]

KevinArnottsGoldenBoot, on 08 February 2016 - 05:47 PM, said:

Well if you say I'm plain wrong then I surely must be.

I note you haven't divvied up the interest received, and that your assumption is that he'll lose everything re-potential losses.

Allen isn't an idiot when it comes to making money. And if you think he came to CFC on a mercy mission then you're way off.

Read Romans view on the other thread.
I haven't said he will lose all his money, I have said he stands to lose a good portion of his shares subscription. Plus, as yet, he has received very little in terms of repayment of his loans.
And where did I say he is on a mercy mission?

[Snowflake McBedwetter]

60s 70s Spireite, on 08 February 2016 - 05:52 PM, said:

Read Romans view on the other thread.
I haven't said he will lose all his money, I have said he stands to lose a good portion of his shares subscription. Plus, as yet, he has received very little in terms of repayment of his loans.
And where did I say he is on a mercy mission?

You said he's made losses. He hasn't. That will only be discernable (to an extent) when he leaves.

My point is that he makes money on the loan, by virtue of being lender and collecter. Which you don't seem able or willing to grasp.

[60s 70s Spireite]

KevinArnottsGoldenBoot, on 08 February 2016 - 06:07 PM, said:

You said he's made losses. He hasn't. That will only be discernable (to an extent) when he leaves.

My point is that he makes money on the loan, by virtue of being lender and collecter. Which you don't seem able or willing to grasp.

The club has made losses. He owns the club. He has made losses. A seasoned businessman won't be kidding himself he won't have made a loss until it has crystallised.

[Guest_freelander2_*]

spireitenag, on 07 February 2016 - 10:23 AM, said:

Yes Andrew still attends.

A number of those who attend run their own business,so please don't wrongly assume any of us are gullible.

Before leaving work tonight I received a phone call, a tip off regarding the fans' forum on Saturday morning. As to who did/didn't ask questions at the AGM, to clarify:

I raised the subject regarding the East Stand write off and the liability to HMRC at the Y/E in CFC 2001's accounts which averaged significantly more than what it had in previous years.

Phil Tooley & Dimview were sat within spitting distance of me at the AGM and I am sure, both will be happy to confirm. Failing that, ask Nick Johnson for a copy of the DVD as the AGM was recorded.

More BS, eh Nige....

[Guest_freelander2_*]

spireitenag, on 07 February 2016 - 12:00 AM, said:

Yes it was.

Basically Dave Allen wants the hospitality/catering side to stand individually away from the footballing side of the business.

The reasoning behind this is so he can set it profit targets each year that ensure it meets the mortgage repayments to A & S Leisure.

That side of the business is currently showing a profit between £225-£250k per year.

So what was the reaction from the panel?

If a department within a business clears a net profit of £250K pa (so we are told), but the company as a whole breaks-even on a good year or loses a 7-figure sum on a bad year, how will separating off that profitable department benefit the business as whole?

[60s 70s Spireite]

freelander2, on 08 February 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

So what was the reaction from the panel?

If a department within a business clears a net profit of £250K pa (so we are told), but the company as a whole breaks-even on a good year or loses a 7-figure sum on a bad year, how will separating off that profitable department benefit the business as whole?

I would love to hear either Phil Tooley or Chesterfield Post ask that question, preferably of DA. Plus supplementary ones like, would you be looking to divest yourself of ownership of the club, yet retain the B & C newco? In which company would the stadium reside? Would you be looking to the fans to take over the club?

[spireitenag]

freelander2, on 08 February 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

So what was the reaction from the panel?

If a department within a business clears a net profit of £250K pa (so we are told), but the company as a whole breaks-even on a good year or loses a 7-figure sum on a bad year, how will separating off that profitable department benefit the business as whole?

I think I need to make one thing crystal clear myself and other members of the forum have no insight into the accounts of the club.

I willingly pass on anything that is said at these meetings via this board and directly to anyone who asks me.

I don't know if we have met or perhaps know each other,but from what I glean from on here you have far more experience in running a business than me.

The only motive of myself and I would think the rest of the forum members is to try and make a difference for the fans.

Please don't think I am taking the side of the board members or anyone else from CFC that attends our meetings either,because that is definitely not the case.

The only thing I care about is the club I have been supporting for 55 years.

If you wish to meet up over a decent pint somewhere and discuss Saturdays,or any previous meeting I will be happy to do so.

Regards Nigel.

This post has been edited by spireitenag: 08 February 2016 - 07:39 PM

[peakblue]

I so wish I'd concentrated more in maths.....

[Snowflake McBedwetter]

spireitenag, on 08 February 2016 - 07:39 PM, said:

I think I need to make one thing crystal clear myself and other members of the forum have no insight into the accounts of the club.

I willingly pass on anything that is said at these meetings via this board and directly to anyone who asks me.

I don't know if we have met or perhaps know each other,but from what I glean from on here you have far more experience in running a business than me.

The only motive of myself and I would think the rest of the forum members is to try and make a difference for the fans.

Please don't think I am taking the side of the board members or anyone else from CFC that attends our meetings either,because that is definitely not the case.

The only thing I care about is the club I have been supporting for 55 years.

If you wish to meet up over a decent pint somewhere and discuss Saturdays,or any previous meeting I will be happy to do so.

Regards Nigel.

I think it's very decent of you to act as intermediary. You've more patience than me!

If possible perhaps you could ask what the total of the interest paid on the loan is over DA's term at the club.

Thanks.

[BlueDay]

60s 70s Spireite, on 08 February 2016 - 05:52 PM, said:

Read Romans view on the other thread.
I haven't said he will lose all his money, I have said he stands to lose a good portion of his shares subscription. Plus, as yet, he has received very little in terms of repayment of his loans.
And where did I say he is on a mercy mission?

He only loses on his shares if he accepts an offer below what he paid for them.

[60s 70s Spireite]

BlueDay, on 08 February 2016 - 08:44 PM, said:

He only loses on his shares if he accepts an offer below what he paid for them.

...and who is going to pay £5M for shares in a company which has a net book value of £1.8M at the last balance sheet and which continues to make underlying losses year after year?

[gb007]

spireitenag, on 08 February 2016 - 07:39 PM, said:

I think I need to make one thing crystal clear myself and other members of the forum have no insight into the accounts of the club.

I willingly pass on anything that is said at these meetings via this board and directly to anyone who asks me.

I don't know if we have met or perhaps know each other,but from what I glean from on here you have far more experience in running a business than me.

The only motive of myself and I would think the rest of the forum members is to try and make a difference for the fans.

Please don't think I am taking the side of the board members or anyone else from CFC that attends our meetings either,because that is definitely not the case.

The only thing I care about is the club I have been supporting for 55 years.

If you wish to meet up over a decent pint somewhere and discuss Saturdays,or any previous meeting I will be happy to do so.

Regards Nigel.

As a forum member along with Nige I fully support his post and would also willingly meet up and discuss anything/everything CFC with no prejudged agenda .
Whilst I can't match Nigel's 55 years of support I have only 'clocked up ' 45 years - at times it feels much longer !!!

Gary

[BlueDay]

60s 70s Spireite, on 08 February 2016 - 08:48 PM, said:

...and who is going to pay £5M for shares in a company which has a net book value of £1.8M at the last balance sheet and which continues to make underlying losses year after year?

Understand what you are saying but he doesn't strike me as the type of guy who is going to accept less than what he paid unless it can be reconciled elsewhere.