[Big O]

Whats your general consensus on being a club owned by the fans?
Do you actually feel your better off ? (not just in relation to your previous administration)
Do you feel you have a say in the running of the club ?

I'm asking this as i've always been a bit sceptical about fans trusts as to me it often seems that someone wants to play at running a club with someone elses money (I mean this in general not just your club and the people that run it day to day)

[isleaiw]

Big O, on Nov 2 2005, 02:06 PM, said:

Whats your general consensus on being a club owned by the fans?
Do you actually feel your better off ? (not just in relation to your previous administration)
Do you feel you have a say in the running of the club ?

I'm asking this as i've always been a bit sceptical about fans trusts as to me it often seems that someone wants to play at running a club with someone elses money (I mean this in general not just your club and the people that run it day to day)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can't speak for everyone but in my humble opinion:

1. There are pluses and minuses to being a club owned by the fans. On the one hand, we as fans really do feel like we are a part of the club, and the club is therefore more a part of the community. I think we get more of a feeling of being an extended family than most. On the down side, we don't have access to never ending amounts of money and sometimes it does feel like the fans are asked to keep dipping in to keep the club going. On balance I prefer it this way - but it would be nice to have some money!

2. Some of the fans would say that the fans trust doesn't have enough say in the running of the club. A separate board runs the club day to day and that does create tension for some people. I think it works. The shareholders in any plc elect a board to run the business for them - CFSS have done the same. Those directors also have money at stake in the form of loans to the club. Its not ideal but it is a decent compromise in my view.

I think the club is stronger and safer through the structure it has, but if a local multi millionaire businessman came along offering to plough in millions, would I want to turn him down. Probably not.....as long as he did have the millions to put in and wasn't actually borrowing it form the current owners to buy them out!!!

Ian

[isleaiw]

Alex Green, on Nov 2 2005, 02:27 PM, said:

like doug ellis who's leaving villa?

there again maybe not
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually I was thinking more of a drinks entrepreneur and property developer....

[isleaiw]

MP-Spire, on Nov 2 2005, 02:31 PM, said:

mmmm. Walton Lodge, helicopter, is CFC on his shopping list? lol
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It was just an example. He is probably the most high profile "nouveau riche" in teh area - with an interest in promoting his brands and business, so he'd fit the bill as the "ideal" if we looked for alternatives to CFSS.

And of course, he's knocking down Bradbury Hall and building flats so he might be able to do something with Saltergate after he has funded new ground and paid off all exiting debts...

Ian

PS it does seem to fit - maybe I need to get a job as his business advisor!

[isleaiw]

MP-Spire, on Nov 2 2005, 02:55 PM, said:

Hey, how did you go on with the 'Loan' for your proposal? lol
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Apparently I earn too much and have too much collateral so not interested, think the fact that I'm an accountant prob counted against me...

[Town_Fan]

Big O, on Nov 2 2005, 03:06 PM, said:

Whats your general consensus on being a club owned by the fans?
Do you actually feel your better off ? (not just in relation to your previous administration)
Do you feel you have a say in the running of the club ?

I'm asking this as i've always been a bit sceptical about fans trusts as to me it often seems that someone wants to play at running a club with someone elses money (I mean this in general not just your club and the people that run it day to day)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your right to be sceptical, the harsh reality is that we are currently are owned by the fans (well the debt is in the fans name) but the club is run by a board of directors that can basically do anything they like as they have the fans over a barrel as they can take away their funding (which is in the form of loans) at any time. The fans owned utopia sounds great the reality is having no money and being run by amatuers, well meaning people but amatuers nontheless.

The current club owners (CFSS) has lost 70% of the fans membership since its inception and it is seen by many fans to be out of touch, indeed there are fans who see the fans orginization board members as no different to ordinary football club board members i.e. out of touch and looking out for themselves.

We have one of the lowest budgets in all of the leagues, we cant even afford a reserve team and there is talk of moving to an incomplete stadium and yet there are some to see this as fantastic. It makes you wonder what ambition some people have in their lives.

CFSS did brilliantly saving the club after the shyster Darren Brown nearly destroyed it, had they put the club up for sale, let someone buy it and move it forward instead of debenturing the ground and taking out more debt (this time to the council) they would have been heroes to me but sadly they are like a parent who are frightened to see their child grow and in my eyes they will be happy for it to remain small and a victim all its life.

[fishini]

Town_Fan, on Nov 3 2005, 02:33 AM, said:

Your right to be sceptical, the harsh reality is that we are currently are owned by the fans (well the debt is in the fans name) but the club is run by a board of directors that can basically do anything they like as they have the fans over a barrel as they can take away their funding (which is in the form of loans) at any time. The fans owned utopia sounds great the reality is having no money and being run by amatuers, well meaning people but amatuers nontheless.

The current club owners (CFSS) has lost 70% of the fans membership since its inception and it is seen by many fans to be out of touch, indeed there are fans who see the fans orginization board members as no different to ordinary football club board members i.e. out of touch and looking out for themselves.

We have one of the lowest budgets in all of the leagues, we cant even afford a reserve team and there is talk of moving to an incomplete stadium and yet there are some to see this as fantastic. It makes you wonder what ambition some people have in their lives.

CFSS did brilliantly saving the club after the shyster Darren Brown nearly destroyed it, had they put the club up for sale, let someone buy it and move it forward instead of debenturing the ground and taking out more debt (this time to the council) they would have been heroes to me but sadly they are like a parent who are frightened to see their child grow and in my eyes they will be happy for it to remain small and a victim all its life.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sacrilege how dare you criticise the CFSS? You are in trouble now But I agree with what you say for a change

[Wooden Spoon]

Big O, on Nov 2 2005, 02:06 PM, said:

Whats your general consensus on being a club owned by the fans?
Do you actually feel your better off ? (not just in relation to your previous administration)
Do you feel you have a say in the running of the club ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i cant thank CFSS enough for the hard work put in at a critical monent, which means the club is still here.
we`re better off in terms of not having a crook for a chairman who wants to fleece the club......however

Big O, on Nov 2 2005, 02:06 PM, said:

I'm asking this as i've always been a bit sceptical about fans trusts as to me it often seems that someone wants to play at running a club with someone elses money (I mean this in general not just your club and the people that run it day to day)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thats pretty much how i see the current situation, except we have no money for them to play with.

[howardb]

death, on Nov 3 2005, 06:33 PM, said:

i cant thank CFSS enough for the hard work put in at a critical monent, which means the club is still here.
we`re better off in terms of not having a crook for a chairman who wants to fleece the club......however
thats pretty much how i see the current situation, except we have no money for them to play with.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So what do you all suggest then.

If CFSS isn't the answer what is. Give the club away, sell the club ?

Investment is welcome (and please don't harp baclk to the Lancashire bus company because that was more complex than it seemed) but there is no queue out there.

The only investors seem to be russians buying Premiership clubs but at our level...........a lot of people on here seem to think they grown on trees.

CFSS is not dogmatic and will consider whatever is best for our club but there first needs to be investment options to consider and then the safety of the club needs to be certain.

Personally I think CFSS is PART of the answer and currently plays its part in a workable arrangement. In life you don't get perfection you get compromise and a few years ago we'd have all compromised for the current situation.

As Pete summed up a lot is happening - just because it's not plastered across the DT every week doesn't mean it isn't and look what happened when the DT got it wrong the other week - many on here chose to believe the worst because it was more fun that checking.

Have faith and it will happen !

Howard

[Mr Brooks]

How involved with CFSS are you?

People seem to have lots of questions of CFSS so how many of you are involved?
You seem to foget what they actually did for CFC and US the supporters....everyone has opions but so slag off CFSS is unbelievable after where we have been..........DB (The B8st4rd) only got 4 years he'll be out to a decent sum very soon and we will still be struggling (Hope we're at Dema site by then) so lets keep CFSS afloat its still A1 to me.

But as before you're all welcome to your opions.....

Spire-ite till I die........and PROUD to be

[Town_Fan]

howardb, on Nov 4 2005, 09:43 AM, said:

So what do you all suggest then.

If CFSS isn't the answer what is. Give the club away, sell the club ?

Investment is welcome (and please don't harp baclk to the Lancashire bus company because that was more complex than it seemed) but there is no queue out there.

The only investors seem to be russians buying Premiership clubs but at our level...........a lot of people on here seem to think they grown on trees.

CFSS is not dogmatic and will consider whatever is best for our club but there first needs to be investment options to consider and then the safety of the club needs to be certain.

Personally I think CFSS is PART of the answer and currently plays its part in a workable arrangement. In life you don't get perfection you get compromise and a few years ago we'd have all compromised for the current situation.

As Pete summed up a lot is happening - just because it's not plastered across the DT every week doesn't mean it isn't and look what happened when the DT got it wrong the other week - many on here chose to believe the worst because it was more fun that checking.

Have faith and it will happen !

Howard
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Heres a clue, put the club up for sale and properly market that fact. I'm not sure how many potential investors read this messagboard but I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest its not that many. I guess its easier to do nothing and then tell everyone that nobody is interested. People do invest in football clubs take Northampton the orignal fans owned football clubs they managed to find someone who was interested in the club and could take it forward.

You state that the FE deal was "complex" yet noone has ever said why this deal was rejected. The only people that have gone on record explained that CFSS buckled to pressure of the CFC board who threatened to pull their loans. CFSS in effect took the submissive route and were walked all over by the CFC board and that is to their eternal shame.

CFSS is nothing more than a glorified supporters club that own the debt for the club whilst it debentures the ground so that others can run this club. I only wish that CFSS intellegence was as strong as its own feeling of self importance, sadly not.

[fishini]

I like most fans am eternally grateful to the CFSS for what they did in the dark days, but IMO they have done all they can do.

If the CFSS had been transparent, open, honest and democratic then they may have been a lot stronger than they are now and the CFSS members numbers wouldn't have dropped through the floor, the rigged vote on WM cost them dear and won't be forgotten by many supporters. How can anyone be trusted when we are spoon fed rubbish like 'we hope to be in the new ground for the 2006/7 season'? Now it turns out we haven't even got any plans drawn up, no planning permission and no land yet, and both the boards expect us to trust them

They may own the club and it's debts but we all know who runs the club and if the CFC ask the CFSS to jump they would say "how high?" If the new ground doesn't get built (which I still believe will be the case) and if the CFC Board are good to their word and walks away, how will the CFSS run the club? We all know the answer, they can't ! So what are their plans in case of this scenario? If Roy asks to sign a player who does he ask? the CFSS or the CFC? The CFC board run it, so let them own it too, and lets have one board who may seriously take the club forward without having the millstone of the CFSS around their necks.

For me I distrust both boards but I think we can only move forward if we have one controlling board and I'm afraid the CFSS cannot fill this role

[dalekpete]

fishini, on Nov 4 2005, 05:47 PM, said:

If the CFSS had been transparent, open, honest and democratic then they may have been a lot stronger than they are now and the CFSS members numbers wouldn't have dropped through the floor, the rigged vote on WM cost them dear and won't be forgotten by many supporters. How can anyone be trusted when we are spoon fed rubbish like 'we hope to be in the new ground for the 2006/7 season'? Now it turns out we haven't even got any plans drawn up, no planning permission and no land yet, and both the boards expect us to trust them
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A few points:

If membership continues as it is for this year it is possible that there will be a year on year increase.

I have never understood how the vote was "rigged", but it is irrelevant if WM is not to be our preferred location; there will be another vote once plans are drawn up.

Any "hopes" for the timescale were dependent on there not being a Public Local Inquiry.

No one, as far as I can see (and I have checked the minutes of the meetings) has ever claimed that there were detailed architectural plans, planning permission or land agreements.

Until this time last year we were pursuing WM (which is still an active application) without Council support. It was CBC that facilitated the current proposal and we would be unwise not to follow it through.

[Town_Fan]

dalekpete, on Nov 4 2005, 07:46 PM, said:

A few points:

If membership continues as it is for this year it is possible that there will be a year on year increase.

I have never understood how the vote was "rigged", but it is irrelevant if WM is not to be our preferred location; there will be another vote once plans are drawn up.

Any "hopes" for the timescale were dependent on there not being a Public Local Inquiry.

No one, as far as I can see (and I have checked the minutes of the meetings) has ever claimed that there were detailed architectural plans, planning permission or land agreements.

Until this time last year we were pursuing WM (which is still an active application) without Council support.  It was CBC that facilitated the current proposal and we would be unwise not to follow it through.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your silence on fishini's other points are deafening. You havent got a clue what you are going to do if a CFC board member pulls their funding. Also a deafening silence on Mike's point about whether MW had been misquoted, seems like you bang the drum on points that you want people to know about but keep quiet on the stuff people really care about. Thats why your membership is down by 70%, personally i find it insulting that you still think you represent the fans. Oh sorry my mistake anyone who doesnt support CFSS is not a proper fan are they?