[isleaiw1]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 10 June 2024 - 05:47 PM, said:

They already have done.

And here's yet more proof... https://www.huffingt...4b0a01ba85b4df2

Its an interesting one so lets discuss the facts....

1979 - after the worst industrial unrest for a generation, and with a country that was the laughing stock of Europe, they came to power and like it not, changed Britain - and I'd suggest after a few very tough years (sometimes medicine is unpleasant) things improved...

2010- well wasnt that the one where the general view was Labour had spent all the money and we were up the creek without a paddle... not sure life got any better for many although they probably stemmed the flow of cash going out...

Looking forward to seeing Labour have to deal with the issues and seeing that its not just a case of lobbing out some soundbites...

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

 isleaiw1, on 10 June 2024 - 05:55 PM, said:

Its an interesting one so lets discuss the facts....

1979 - after the worst industrial unrest for a generation, and with a country that was the laughing stock of Europe, they came to power and like it not, changed Britain - and I'd suggest after a few very tough years (sometimes medicine is unpleasant) things improved...

2010- well wasnt that the one where the general view was Labour had spent all the money and we were up the creek without a paddle... not sure life got any better for many although they probably stemmed the flow of cash going out...

Looking forward to seeing Labour have to deal with the issues and seeing that its not just a case of lobbing out some soundbites...

I tend to ignore your almost pathological whataboutery these days Ian, but couldn't help laughing at you saying "let's discuss facts" immediately followed by two sentences of opinion.

But if you really do want to focus on facts, please post the reasons for worldwide economic collapse of 2008, who was widely acknowledged as leading the West out of it and what the national debt was then compared to now...

[isleaiw1]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 10 June 2024 - 06:13 PM, said:

I tend to ignore your almost pathological whataboutery these days Ian, but couldn't help laughing at you saying "let's discuss facts" immediately followed by two sentences of opinion.

But if you really do want to focus on facts, please post the reasons for worldwide economic collapse of 2008, who was widely acknowledged as leading the West out of it and what the national debt was then compared to now...

finance crisis was caused by the over leveraging of junk debt in the uk.... and i think you mean the man widely credited for selling the countries gold too cheaply and raiding pensions, causing deficits for many final salary schemes in the private sector and leading to them being withdrawn...

that bloke?

who also oversaw the boom in pfi schemes that are crippling the country now.


yep, its all about opinions... you seem to forget that yours was too, hence me posting as though mine was fact....

bit like the opinions on class sizes following vat implementation, some poll suggests 29% of kids will rejoin the state system... guess we will see soon unless he changes his mind on that too..

See the Lib Dems have found the magic money tree too - but at least they seem to have recognised that care system needs some help....

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

 isleaiw1, on 10 June 2024 - 07:20 PM, said:

finance crisis was caused by the over leveraging of junk debt in the uk.... and i think you mean the man widely credited for selling the countries gold too cheaply and raiding pensions, causing deficits for many final salary schemes in the private sector and leading to them being withdrawn...

that bloke?

who also oversaw the boom in pfi schemes that are crippling the country now.


yep, its all about opinions... you seem to forget that yours was too, hence me posting as though mine was fact....

bit like the opinions on class sizes following vat implementation, some poll suggests 29% of kids will rejoin the state system... guess we will see soon unless he changes his mind on that too..

See the Lib Dems have found the magic money tree too - but at least they seem to have recognised that care system needs some help....

I thought a bloke with your background would know the international banking crisis began in the US sub prime markets, Ian. Meaning the 'Labour spent all the money' line was as ignorant as it was predictable.

And for all your scornful squirming, yup, it was the Gordon Brown whose name you can't bring yourself to say that convinced other leaders to re-finance their way out of recession.

Oh, and in't it funny how you'll regurgitate stuff from more than a quarter century ago when it suits, but dismiss the Lib' Dem's more recent austerity endorsing hypocrisies as irrelevant history.

Then I'm somehow to blame for you peddling prejudice as fact? That's pretty playground, pal.

We're still waiting for the comparative national debt levels requested to support your "(the tories) stemmed the flow of cash" assertion, too. We both know they won't be forthcoming 'cos they'll prove you wrong though, don't we. Which's summat you'll never, ever admit.

For what it's worth I'm gonna keep posting links and quotes and evidence of right wing corruptions. Just as everyone knows you'll keep ignoring each and every episode to post increasingly desperate whataboutery. I mean, saying word zero to condemn the latest example of Reform scummery to pursue a single unguarded comment from Emily Thornberry? With the same disturbing zeal you pursued Angie Raynor?

The prospect of a victorious Sir Kier walking into Number Ten really is taking it's toll in you, isn't it...

[isleaiw1]

Ah, it was the financial crisis that caused the lack of money and not over spending, but the Tories shouldnt have done austerity anyway... Gordon Brown did a good job at the start of the financial crisis, not sure he was so good for the rest of the time, but that's also an opinion....

And yes, I think the Lib Dem / Tory coalition was the best govt since 2010...not a high bar, but the question is will I still believe it in 5 years?

Not worried about Starmer walking in, more worried about the unions having the keys too, as we say what happened in the 70s when they thought they had power...I was agreeing with Thornberry, by the way, thought it was good of her to tell the truth. A bit like Rayner in regards to Dianne Abbott.... not sure starmer will be as keen!

You know how inflation can fall but prices are still going up, its the same with stemming the flow, debt can still be rising but less rapidly than it would be based on previous spending levels...

Anyway, as I say, I look forward to you defending the events that transpire after 5th July. That will be quite humourous, and there will be so much whataboutery its untrue....

[s42blue]

 The Earl of Chesterfield, on 10 June 2024 - 06:13 PM, said:

But if you really do want to focus on facts, please post the reasons for worldwide economic collapse of 2008, who was widely acknowledged as leading the West out of it and what the national debt was then compared to now...

Theres no one fact as to who started GFC and is still widely debated. Sub prime lending, Lehmans, packaged CDOs, incompetent ratings agencies.

America were the ones to lead the West out of it. Youre saying that the U.K. did? No chance, sorry. Brown had little choice but to nationalise the banks.

Sorry but there?s no facts in your hypothesis just opinion.

As for debt itll be much lower than it is. So one fact.


Just read further down the thread you two continuing your tete a tete. Some bits of both I agree with tbh. US caused GFC, US solved GFC, U.K. then and still now suffers from Browns gold sell off: estimates still to be 40% down on NAV. Labour did spend but had a booming economy which paid for debt. If a week is a long time ago in politics this is history though!

Lots of snipes and sneers from both.

This post has been edited by s42blue: Today, 09:23 AM

[isleaiw1]

s42blue, on 11 June 2024 - 09:13 AM, said:

Theres no one fact as to who started GFC and is still widely debated. Sub prime lending, Lehmans, packaged CDOs, incompetent ratings agencies.

America were the ones to lead the West out of it. Youre saying that the U.K. did? No chance, sorry. Brown had little choice but to nationalise the banks.

Sorry but there?s no facts in your hypothesis just opinion.

As for debt itll be much lower than it is. So one fact.


Just read further down the thread you two continuing your tete a tete. Some bits of both I agree with tbh. US caused GFC, US solved GFC, U.K. then and still now suffers from Browns gold sell off: estimates still to be 40% down on NAV. Labour did spend but had a booming economy which paid for debt. If a week is a long time ago in politics this is history though!

Lots of snipes and sneers from both.

the trouble with economics and politics is it is pretty much all opinions as it is virtually impossible to isolate individual factors to assess impact / causation etc.

there does seem to be a preoccupation with the word sneer but whilst we are on it, isnt it quite sneering to point out that others are just resorting to sneers

Tory manifesto due in 30 mins, that should be fun. why they havent done any of it before now is the big question...

[dart in the crossbar]

isleaiw1, on 11 June 2024 - 09:55 AM, said:

the trouble with economics and politics is it is pretty much all opinions as it is virtually impossible to isolate individual factors to assess impact / causation etc.

there does seem to be a preoccupation with the word sneer but whilst we are on it, isnt it quite sneering to point out that others are just resorting to sneers

Tory manifesto due in 30 mins, that should be fun. why they havent done any of it before now is the big question...

Is that the Sunak manifesto or the Braverman/Farage manifesto or whatever else they come with in the coming few weeks?

Traditional Conservatives should be wringing their hands over what Johnson, Truss, Braverman et al have done to their party.

[s42blue]

 isleaiw1, on 11 June 2024 - 09:55 AM, said:

the trouble with economics and politics is it is pretty much all opinions as it is virtually impossible to isolate individual factors to assess impact / causation etc.

there does seem to be a preoccupation with the word sneer but whilst we are on it, isnt it quite sneering to point out that others are just resorting to sneers

Tory manifesto due in 30 mins, that should be fun. why they havent done any of it before now is the big question...

No it?s not sneering; it?s commenting. It?s boring reading it all the time but you crack on 🦆

[isleaiw1]

s42blue, on 11 June 2024 - 10:23 AM, said:

No it?s not sneering; it?s commenting. It?s boring reading it all the time but you crack on 🦆

Thanks, will do. I can teach you how to put people on ignore if it helps...?

[isleaiw1]

dart in the crossbar, on 11 June 2024 - 10:20 AM, said:

Is that the Sunak manifesto or the Braverman/Farage manifesto or whatever else they come with in the coming few weeks?

Traditional Conservatives should be wringing their hands over what Johnson, Truss, Braverman et al have done to their party.

to be fair, Labour are releasing theirs on Thursday, but we need to ask Rayner and Thorneycroft if they have sight of a different one...

To be fair to Farage, he didnt like what the Tories were doing (or they didnt like what he was doing) so he formed his own parties. The others want to take a well know brand and use it for their own ends. Although some would say Blair did that with Labour...

[s42blue]

 isleaiw1, on 11 June 2024 - 10:39 AM, said:

Thanks, will do. I can teach you how to put people on ignore if it helps...?

Youre becoming as patronising as others. There?s no need. (Yes a snipe, sneer, smear whatever).

Enjoy the manifestos.

Edit: I?ll take that back and apologise. Your posts though always used to be very readable and logical but have gone downhill IMO. No offence meant

This post has been edited by s42blue: Today, 11:57 AM

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

For the record, and to his credit, Ian always remains adult throughout our exchanges.

But back in the real world (well, ish) the supposedly bold and decisive Sunak fell over himself to take questions from GeeBeebies and Times Radio yet snubbed LBC, The Guardian and C4.

Despite those platforms having audiences many times more than his favoured ones.

Taking no follow up questions either, of course.

And is it true assembled journo's were warned any questions over his D Day exit would result on instant black balling....?

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: Today, 12:21 PM

[isleaiw1]

I did wonder why the obvious questions werent asked...

why havent you done this before?
how can we afford it / where is the money coming from?
how will you resolve the issues in the care system?
why were you late

And thanks Chris, you should know by now that I dont think very much at all of the Tories, and really hope the next 5 years go well so I can retire happily - but every coin has two sides and I like being devils advocate!

[Holmesc1]

Deleted

This post has been edited by Holmesc1: Today, 01:01 PM

[Johnnyspireite7]

s42blue, on 11 June 2024 - 09:13 AM, said:

Theres no one fact as to who started GFC and is still widely debated. Sub prime lending, Lehmans, packaged CDOs, incompetent ratings agencies.

America were the ones to lead the West out of it. Youre saying that the U.K. did? No chance, sorry. Brown had little choice but to nationalise the banks.

Sorry but there?s no facts in your hypothesis just opinion.

As for debt itll be much lower than it is. So one fact.


Just read further down the thread you two continuing your tete a tete. Some bits of both I agree with tbh. US caused GFC, US solved GFC, U.K. then and still now suffers from Browns gold sell off: estimates still to be 40% down on NAV. Labour did spend but had a booming economy which paid for debt. If a week is a long time ago in politics this is history though!

Lots of snipes and sneers from both.

Considering they were the ones to plunge us into it, you'd think the least they could do is lead the West out of it!

[isleaiw1]

 s42blue, on 11 June 2024 - 11:48 AM, said:

Youre becoming as patronising as others. There?s no need. (Yes a snipe, sneer, smear whatever).

Enjoy the manifestos.

Edit: I?ll take that back and apologise. Your posts though always used to be very readable and logical but have gone downhill IMO. No offence meant

It's OK, it's been a rubbish day work wise, and that is never a good time to post! No offence taken, well aware I can be an arse at times.