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#141 The Black Triangle

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 09:32 PM

Spire-Power, on 01 December 2016 - 08:20 PM, said:

If we sold Saltergate when land value was low,wasn't it also a bad time for the construction industry and building costs were low? Just a thought

And the land on which the new ground was built was free
DA wants other directors to write off£1,800,000 of loans, while he "increases" the value of his share holding by some £900,000 in a loss making business? Am I missing something here?

#142 Spire-Power

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 09:41 PM

It seems he is prepared to build up the personal debt to him while increasing his control over everything at the club.

#143 The Black Triangle

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 09:51 PM

Spire-Power, on 01 December 2016 - 09:41 PM, said:

It seems he is prepared to build up the personal debt to him while increasing his control over everything at the club.

It makes no sense. If your the owner of a loss making business that you no longer want to run and have made it aware you want out, why would you ask £900,000 more than the "face value" of the shares, and at the same time ask others to write off twice that amount? No one is going to buy at that price or write off that amount of money.
Why make demands you know won't be met? Unless your intent on hostile actions and the rejection of your terms is a pre planned justification?

#144 60s 70s Spireite

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 10:01 PM

Spired, on 01 December 2016 - 08:24 PM, said:

Yes

A lottery grant went towards the stadium build too

It wasn't a lottery grant as such, it was a grant of over £2.5M at the outset of the build from one of the Football League Trusts, I can't find the exact source. CFC Community Trust received a 'Premier and Football League' grant of over £400k in the year to June 2014 accounts.

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 10:15 PM

60s 70s Spireite, on 01 December 2016 - 10:01 PM, said:

Approximately £1.7M came from the Football Foundation and £0.8M from EMDA for ground remediation and site clearance.

#146 The Earl of Chesterfield

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 10:27 PM

Dancingwilldoit, on 01 December 2016 - 07:21 PM, said:

Yes but Walsall didn't build a new ground on 100% borrowed money selling their old ground when the market was rock bottom. How much do you think the interest payments are on the loaned money? I would think its in the region of 400-500k per year maybe more and that probably accounts for our losses. Its very easy to move that around in the accounts by not paying one year and put it back in when it suits.
Did we really need £200k to survive to the end of the year or have we seen a sleight of hand with a £200k input and nearly the same going back out to our lord and master in interest payments?

The land for the new stadium footprint was gifted, meanwhile the one point eight million (I think) shortfall on the Saltergate sale was announced some time before the eventual build.

We were told at the time that the figures stacked-up and most of the debt has accrued since, notably the million-plus loss despite record income.

Payments are indeed around half a million pounds, yet talent sales have recouped four times that over both the last two years only for CFC to barely break even.

The Walsall reference is to compare the performance of a club with similar facilities yet one that delivers superior results via an inferior turnover.

Perhaps the term 'sleight of hand' might be used to describe much of what's been happening on Sheff Road.

Just as the term 'delusional hubris' might be used to describe much of what was said at this so-called Q&A session.

This post has been edited by MDCCCLXVI: 01 December 2016 - 10:30 PM

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#147 azul

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 11:34 PM

freelander2, on 01 December 2016 - 06:54 PM, said:

When they've done congratulating one another, it would be nice to hear their detailed analysis on the attached PDF file. Why have we consistently performed so badly against one of the better run clubs in the lower leagues?

How can Walsall operate on a much smaller headcount and wage bill, when on average, they deliver greater success on the pitch and still trade profitably?

Thought we already had already been exposed to a detailed analysis? It is all to do with large Indian weddings swelling their function rooms coffers.

Not sure why this isn't reflected in their turnover though?

Accentuate th Positive, eliminate the negative

#148 azul

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 11:38 PM

freelander2, on 01 December 2016 - 10:15 PM, said:

Approximately £1.7M came from the Football Foundation and £0.8M from EMDA for ground remediation and site clearance.

Surely all this is water under the bridge. Should we be falling into their trap of debating the historic losses during the ground move.

It is the ongoing losses since 2011 and DA's plans that really matter.

Looks like the CT lightning conductor is paying for itself again

This post has been edited by azul: 01 December 2016 - 11:42 PM

Accentuate th Positive, eliminate the negative

#149 Nitrous Oxide

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 07:21 AM

Despite everything that's been said I'm still convinced DA doesn't want to sell up and that he's flexing his muscle. A complete show of control.

#150 azul

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 09:13 AM

MDCCCLXVI, on 01 December 2016 - 10:27 PM, said:

Not sure about the shortfall being announced before the new stadium build. GB who built the new stadium announced the sale of Saltergate to Barret Homes in Jan 2012. I assume this is the time the shortfall was realised.

They obviously took a chance on property prices going up and they went down. Tough on DA, but he was obviously taking advice from the wrong people and still is.

Accentuate th Positive, eliminate the negative

#151 Guest_freelander2_*

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 10:56 AM

Walsall comparison file updated to include their 2016 results.

Attached File(s)

CFC Versus Walsall.pdf (156.13K)
Number of downloads: 61

This post has been edited by freelander2: 02 December 2016 - 11:01 AM

#152 moondog

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 01:04 PM

freelander2, on 02 December 2016 - 10:56 AM, said:

Walsall comparison file updated to include their 2016 results.

wow £417k profit on nearly £1m less turnover than us !

#153 Zorro

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 01:17 PM

freelander2, on 02 December 2016 - 10:56 AM, said:

Walsall comparison file updated to include their 2016 results.

Do you know where all the player sales income falls into as there appears to be a serious loss in turnover if we received over £4 million pounds.
AC gave figures stating that attendances & season tickets were slightly down during the year and I thought he was talking about the end of December, yet your figures give a different story unless we were inundated with school tickets given out.

You don't need to be an accountant or seek advice from outside looking at these figures, the turnover does not cover the wages. They have to either increase turnover or decrease wages. They're living on a prayer if they think the answer to all the problems is to create player's with a saleable value year after year then they are seriously deluded.

Your figures show outgoings of 11,442,059 (wages & admin expenses), yet only show a turnover of 7,529,488. Can you explain please? - are the players sales not included in turnover?

Rob

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 01:25 PM

Zorro, on 02 December 2016 - 01:17 PM, said:

Admin expenses include wages. I thought it important to show what the total wages were also to enable comparisons & demonstrate where the problem is.

#155 azul

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 01:55 PM

Zorro, on 02 December 2016 - 01:17 PM, said:

The £4M figure came from Turner when he was explaining how good he was at negotiating transfer fees so should be taken with a pinch of salt. I think he was talking about a figure split across 2 financial periods anyway.

As far as gate receipts AC stated a drop of revenue from £2M to £1.6M while season ticket sales remained the same. So a drop of £400K must have been associated with a drop in walk-ups. As the average attendances only dropped by a few hundred in doesn't really explain that drop even if you add the odd extra cup game. It points to the fact there were more free tickets handed out or a change in the way attendances figures are presented

This post has been edited by azul: 02 December 2016 - 01:58 PM

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#156 The Black Triangle

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 06:06 PM

freelander2, on 02 December 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

Admin expenses include wages. I thought it important to show what the total wages were also to enable comparisons & demonstrate where the problem is.

are you the fan turner spoke of who had suggested you could save £1,000,000?

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 06:12 PM

The Gimp, on 02 December 2016 - 06:06 PM, said:

are you the fan turner spoke of who had suggested you could save £1,000,000?

If he's referring to me, he's bull sh1tting. I never made the promise of saving the club £1M nor at any point have I discussed stewarding costs with him.

#158 NOFX

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 06:36 PM

Can anyone please sum up the meeting and the outcome ?

#159 The Earl of Chesterfield

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 06:41 PM

azul, on 02 December 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

I'm working from memory, here, but I'm pretty sure the late Chairman revealed a contract signed by a buyer had proven not worth the paper on which it was written at an AGM prior to Allen's arrival.

The difference between the original and later offer being around one point eight million.

Spanish proverb: 'Pessimists are just well informed optimists'

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 06:49 PM

Marcia,

Re. The approach to Rangers, I got a message three weeks ago from someone who is a regular at the Speakeasy events, stating that Rangers had been approached many months ago and it was knocked on the head because they wanted too much money.

As someone that also attends the Speakeasy sessions, what is your understanding on the subject?