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The Earl of Chesterfield, on 05 June 2024 - 10:21 AM, said:

Hang on, mine is whataboutery even though I quote people who ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ON LABOUR'S SIDE undermining their position...

I've said all along that this lot were a shambles but anyone who expected different from Johnson was deluded....

I'm predictable. You accuse the Tories of lying because they make some assumptions to get to a number, but Labour assumptions that underlie their key message (everything is fully costed) are taken as gospel, even though the same sources say they are likely overstated...

No prejudice, although I think all the election is doing is proving how much rubbish they all talk... for example...

https://www.theguard...-thinktank-says

My tediousness follows your predictability - the more you post suggesting one side is talking crap and the other is being completely straight, the more I will reply saying that is complete tosh...

Its easy to stop me, just say they are both massaging numbers to suit their aims....

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 05 June 2024 - 09:35 AM, said:

Its OK, Raynor will open her gob and help him, see the leader of Unite is saying things like "the Labour leadership's penchant for reneging on promises has been a theme of its time in opposition" (writing in the guardian yesterday I think).... lets be honest, Labour do best when they say nowt. 4 and a bit weeks to go and still no public manifesto says all you need to know about their plan... try and keep a lid on comments and hope someone doesnt mess it up for them....

Did they also show the applause for the things people agreed with...? Like when he said "if you think Labour will win, start saving"???

(I have been for the last two years...just in case... and have a plan to reduce my hours to avoid the worst of the tax rises - just in case)


Martin Lewis also not very positive about Labour's plans and the spending black hole... now the public do listen to him on money matters..!

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 05 June 2024 - 08:35 AM, said:

Like all things in the manifestos, its based on assumptions. A bit like how much Labour think they can claw back from tax dodgers and what the same civil servants have said. You dont appear to have mentioned that lie, shall I do it for you? Labour say ?5.5bn or something, but the civil servants say no more than ?3.9bn.

The one thing we can be absolutely sure of, they are all choosing numbers that suit them, cant prove any, and will never be held to account over any.

The gist of the argument is true, Labour reckon they have a costed plan, the Tories think the numbers look optimistic and Labour will need to raise more. ?2000 was just to grab the headlines. And it has.

Do you think that everything Labour says is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? or maybe a bit of marketing flair thrown in to make it sell better...?

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 05 June 2024 - 07:29 AM, said:

Remind me, you did say you didnt watch last night? as far as I could tell, there wasnt much audience involvement, comatose was the word I read (but i read different sources to you so mine will be biased differently!)

dart in the crossbar, on 05 June 2024 - 07:48 AM, said:

Interestingly, the suggestion is that because Starmer is so far ahead the pressure was all on him not to mess up and Sunak had nothing to lose.... and of course, labour still havent issued their manifesto have they which means that having a debate when you dont have the policies in public domain to talk about is quite hard... so I guess he had to revert to "look at the last 14 years" "and "you can trust us"

Do the public need political credibility to decide who to vote for? Johnson won and he was as principled on politics as he was in his personal life - none. The Lib Dems seem to be going for the Raving Looney vote with the stunts on bikes and paddle boards, Reform are a protest party just to give Farage TV and media space to keep his profile up.... maybe the Greens are the most serious alternative now.