[Holmesc1]

isleaiw1, on 02 February 2024 - 06:56 PM, said:

No, you cant deliver all you want in a coalition so they had to compromise, or we would have minority govts and multiple elections and that is bad for the country.

Plus the one policy I didnt rate was the tuition fees one so that was fine with me.... in fact, they should make those who go to uni for three of four years an dnot earn a penny extra pay them back, but once you get to the 45% tax bracket anything outstanding should be written off, to encourage people to make their education pay

If Labour ever tell us any policies other than not reimplementing the bankers cap, we'll be able to see if they stick to them. I wont hold my breath on either count.

PS glad to see austerity make an appearance, been missing that one... you do know why they had to cut spending dont you, because TB decided to give everything away!

Tony blair was throwing money away like confetti. My dad got a bus pass when he was 60 as well as heating allowance, you have to wait till you are retirement age which is now 66 like my mam did.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

isleaiw1, on 02 February 2024 - 06:56 PM, said:

No, you cant deliver all you want in a coalition so they had to compromise, or we would have minority govts and multiple elections and that is bad for the country.

Plus the one policy I didnt rate was the tuition fees one so that was fine with me.... in fact, they should make those who go to uni for three of four years an dnot earn a penny extra pay them back, but once you get to the 45% tax bracket anything outstanding should be written off, to encourage people to make their education pay

If Labour ever tell us any policies other than not reimplementing the bankers cap, we'll be able to see if they stick to them. I wont hold my breath on either count.

PS glad to see austerity make an appearance, been missing that one... you do know why they had to cut spending dont you, because TB decided to give everything away!

But you yet again dodge the point.

You sneered that Labour 'might not do everything they promise' after winning the next election (sorry pal, I know it hurts, but it's gonna happen). Despite spending years - and repeating it here - excusing and defending Lib' Dem's who totally tore up their manifesto.

Which you now dub a "compromise". Yeah, let's see if you use that same term if Labour 'compromise' after inheriting a national debt way more than double that of 2010.

Then, despite all the eye rollingly predictable denials, your anti-Labour prejudice is in full display with the "TB decided to give everything away" line. Call yourself a numbers man? What was the national debt when Labour left office? What was average growth under TB? How were public services performing?

Every rational person knows austerity was an ideological decision made using the international financial crisis, which began in the 'States, as an excuse. With both Brown and the late Darling leading the world in addressing it. Let's also remember Cameron, Johnson and many more in their party demanding less - LESS - City regulation prior to that crash.

All that said I've gotta give you credit though, Ian. Your Labour hating hypocrisy pales into insignificance against that of someone who now quotes the Liam Byrne thing after continuing to vote for them - alongside turning typically blind eyes to the billions upon billions upon billions squandered by tory corruption and incompetence...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 03 February 2024 - 07:34 AM

[Goku]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 03 February 2024 - 07:33 AM, said:

But you yet again dodge the point.

You sneered that Labour 'might not do everything they promise' after winning the next election (sorry pal, I know it hurts, but it's gonna happen). Despite spending years - and repeating it here - excusing and defending Lib' Dem's who totally tore up their manifesto.

Which you now dub a "compromise". Yeah, let's see if you use that same term if Labour 'compromise' after inheriting a national debt way more than double that of 2010.

Yeah this is clearly hypocrisy no matter which side of the fence you stand. Nobody can deny that.

[Bobby Darling]

Holmesc1, on 02 February 2024 - 09:47 PM, said:

Tony blair was throwing money away like confetti. My dad got a bus pass when he was 60 as well as heating allowance, you have to wait till you are retirement age which is now 66 like my mam did.

Bus passes aren’t issued by the Government. Hence why you get them at different ages depending where you live. 60 in Merseyside.

[isleaiw1]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 03 February 2024 - 07:33 AM, said:

But you yet again dodge the point.

You sneered that Labour 'might not do everything they promise' after winning the next election (sorry pal, I know it hurts, but it's gonna happen). Despite spending years - and repeating it here - excusing and defending Lib' Dem's who totally tore up their manifesto.

Which you now dub a "compromise". Yeah, let's see if you use that same term if Labour 'compromise' after inheriting a national debt way more than double that of 2010.

Then, despite all the eye rollingly predictable denials, your anti-Labour prejudice is in full display with the "TB decided to give everything away" line. Call yourself a numbers man? What was the national debt when Labour left office? What was average growth under TB? How were public services performing?

Every rational person knows austerity was an ideological decision made using the international financial crisis, which began in the 'States, as an excuse. With both Brown and the late Darling leading the world in addressing it. Let's also remember Cameron, Johnson and many more in their party demanding less - LESS - City regulation prior to that crash.

All that said I've gotta give you credit though, Ian. Your Labour hating hypocrisy pales into insignificance against that of someone who now quotes the Liam Byrne thing after continuing to vote for them - alongside turning typically blind eyes to the billions upon billions upon billions squandered by tory corruption and incompetence...

My point is Labour will have to compromise to get in power, stay in power, balance the books. They all do it. My view on the coalition is simple, we saw the value in it when you look at the first actions Cameron took when he had power his own way. Compromise is what life is all about, and achieving good is better than aiming for great and doing nothing (to paraphrase some saying). If Labour stick to the middle ground, keep most people happy and get a second term, I'll probably be happy because that means they have probably done OK....

I dont think you can compare national debt pre and post covid. Austerity as you call it, balancing the books as others call it, is a view that comes from economics yes, it says you cant just keep borrowing or your govt debt becomes too expensive, your interest rates go up, your ability to do stuff goes down and growth disappears into a more desperate form of financial crisis (see Greece, Ireland). You should borrow money in the bad times and pay it down in the good times. My criticism of Blair and Brown is they borrowed loads in the good times - and made benefits pay. But I'd take them again tomorrow over the current options.... because they had a belief, a set of principles, a goal. All of the current lot just seem to want power and will flip flop to get it....

Its easy by the way to throw money at a problem and say look how well I am doing. But that isnt a long term solution, you have to find a way to make things better in a way the country can afford. Every rational person (see what I did there) knows that is how you manage your finances at home, why would it be different for the govt? Maybe because someone else can pay for the debt?

I know you like links, so one for you to read. I'm off to explore my surroundings as away with work this weekend (its not overtime and I dont get paid... imagine that!)

https://www.imf.org/...2018/03/alesina

[isleaiw1]

Bobby Darling, on 03 February 2024 - 05:47 PM, said:

Bus passes aren’t issued by the Government. Hence why you get them at different ages depending where you live. 60 in Merseyside.

Dont you think its a bit wasteful to issue passes to people who are still working? (whoever issues them)

[Bobby Darling]

isleaiw1, on 03 February 2024 - 08:07 PM, said:

Dont you think its a bit wasteful to issue passes to people who are still working? (whoever issues them)

No. Passes encourage people to use public transport and buses in particular. I’m not point scoring here but you have dissed the Lib Dem’s environmental policies in previous posts. So I get your drift. More buses (electric), more free travel will be the norm. Currently down to the LA or PTE.

[Bobby Darling]

isleaiw1, on 03 February 2024 - 07:58 PM, said:

My point is Labour will have to compromise to get in power, stay in power, balance the books. They all do it. My view on the coalition is simple, we saw the value in it when you look at the first actions Cameron took when he had power his own way. Compromise is what life is all about, and achieving good is better than aiming for great and doing nothing (to paraphrase some saying). If Labour stick to the middle ground, keep most people happy and get a second term, I'll probably be happy because that means they have probably done OK....

I dont think you can compare national debt pre and post covid. Austerity as you call it, balancing the books as others call it, is a view that comes from economics yes, it says you cant just keep borrowing or your govt debt becomes too expensive, your interest rates go up, your ability to do stuff goes down and growth disappears into a more desperate form of financial crisis (see Greece, Ireland). You should borrow money in the bad times and pay it down in the good times. My criticism of Blair and Brown is they borrowed loads in the good times - and made benefits pay. But I'd take them again tomorrow over the current options.... because they had a belief, a set of principles, a goal. All of the current lot just seem to want power and will flip flop to get it....

Its easy by the way to throw money at a problem and say look how well I am doing. But that isnt a long term solution, you have to find a way to make things better in a way the country can afford. Every rational person (see what I did there) knows that is how you manage your finances at home, why would it be different for the govt? Maybe because someone else can pay for the debt?

I know you like links, so one for you to read. I'm off to explore my surroundings as away with work this weekend (its not overtime and I dont get paid... imagine that!)

https://www.imf.org/...2018/03/alesina

Think about your business. The U.K. is not Ireland or Greece. If you don’t spook the markets like Truss the U.K. has massive power. “The Market” is driven by economic demand of which we are a key factor. The U.K. has huge power in brand economic demand and company P&Ls. Austerity was a Coalition choice to support interests. There was an alternative.

[isleaiw1]

Bobby Darling, on 03 February 2024 - 11:38 PM, said:

No. Passes encourage people to use public transport and buses in particular. I’m not point scoring here but you have dissed the Lib Dem’s environmental policies in previous posts. So I get your drift. More buses (electric), more free travel will be the norm. Currently down to the LA or PTE.

So under your approach I'd get one to go to work on, even though I use public transport anyway...

I dont worry what one party says, as I always say, I'll look at the package and make my mind up at the time about the overall thing, not force myself to like every bit of the party I support. Public transport would be great if it was good enough. It isnt, especially for those who work the worst shifts, be fine for office people like me...

For me I remember one of my team using his concessionary travel to get to work pre pandemic, he was bout 63 or 64 and on a train drivers base salary. Never seemed a good use of scarce resources to me as he would have been using public transport anyway...

You definitely arent point scoring, we can agree on that

[isleaiw1]

Bobby Darling, on 03 February 2024 - 11:47 PM, said:

Think about your business. The U.K. is not Ireland or Greece. If you don’t spook the markets like Truss the U.K. has massive power. “The Market” is driven by economic demand of which we are a key factor. The U.K. has huge power in brand economic demand and company P&Ls. Austerity was a Coalition choice to support interests. There was an alternative.

That must have been a branch of economics I never studied. If we are so powerful, why has our credit rating been reduced because of the level of debt we have... ?

Of course there was an alternative, the question is which was the best approach to drive future growth, spend now and suffer the consequences or get debt under control and grow thereafter. We'll never agree on that as you seem to be stuck in the 60s with Keynesian theories...

[Holmesc1]

Bobby Darling, on 03 February 2024 - 05:47 PM, said:

Bus passes aren’t issued by the Government. Hence why you get them at different ages depending where you live. 60 in Merseyside.

Its still pensioner age and above for it to be valid nationwide, areas where its 60+ and i dont think theres many, will just be a free travel pass in that area only. 60s too young for free travel considering most still work at that age and if they can retire they will be financially well off

[Bobby Darling]

Holmesc1, on 04 February 2024 - 08:40 AM, said:

Its still pensioner age and above for it to be valid nationwide, areas where its 60+ and i dont think theres many, will just be a free travel pass in that area only. 60s too young for free travel considering most still work at that age and if they can retire they will be financially well off

You can use you Merseytravel bus pass in Chesterfield. TfL don’t accept it but everywhere else ok.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Good job we're 'taking back control of our borders'...

https://www.bbc.co.u...health-68325203

Oh, and remember how scammers insisted there were easy answers to the NI/EU issues? Errr...

Https://www.bbc.co.u...reland-68320858

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

So James 'not so' Cleverly tours studios this morning hailing a deal done with the EU to cooperate in terms of migration.

A deal we more or less had, erm, before Brexit.

And a deal in some way paralleling what Labour have been advocating only to be dubbed somehow treacherous by the usual suspects.

There really is no need for a punchline. But at least he didn't shout the 'S' word at anyone this time...

[Holmesc1]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 23 February 2024 - 07:30 AM, said:

So James 'not so' Cleverly tours studios this morning hailing a deal done with the EU to cooperate in terms of migration.

A deal we more or less had, erm, before Brexit.

And a deal in some way paralleling what Labour have been advocating only to be dubbed somehow treacherous by the usual suspects.

There really is no need for a punchline. But at least he didn't shout the 'S' word at anyone this time...

And your point is?

[Goku]

Holmesc1, on 23 February 2024 - 12:38 PM, said:

And your point is?

How can you not understand the point man

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Here's summat else the usual suspects will be desperate to ignore... https://www.thelondo...to-come-368586/

But hey, let's all laugh at Germany...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 25 February 2024 - 12:52 PM

[s42blue]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 25 February 2024 - 12:50 PM, said:

Here's summat else the usual suspects will be desperate to ignore... https://www.thelondo...to-come-368586/

But hey, let's all laugh at Germany...

Whilst not a Brexiteer by any means, you have to remember this is an opinion piece and not a fact.

Goldmans will have a vested interest in talking down a market, whilst talking up another. It’s how they make lots of money.

[Holmesc1]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 25 February 2024 - 12:50 PM, said:

Here's summat else the usual suspects will be desperate to ignore... https://www.thelondo...to-come-368586/

But hey, let's all laugh at Germany...

Do you think we should re-join?

[Mr Mercury]

Goku, on 23 February 2024 - 12:49 PM, said:

How can you not understand the point man

I’d swear you have Holmesc1 on auto reply.