[Phil V 72]

Close but no prawn sarnies, on 08 January 2019 - 04:03 PM, said:

Spot on and thats the thing that baffles 99% of us and will continue to do so, however if he continues to do so the club keeps going, hopefully not in a downward direction.

Much of our current predicament could have been avoided if the owner had installed a competent CEO when he took full control of the club. Why he's allowed it to spiral as it has is anyone's guess.

[Zorro]

dim view, on 07 January 2019 - 07:25 PM, said:

many thanks for your great efforts Z.

You infer that had MA or even Pemberton remained in situ then a sale was possible. I am in despair that Allen prefers to fund a further increase in the debt rather than drive the sale through to completion.

Dave, I'm not going to answer all the questions that have been raised since my last post but I will say that the sale would have been very possible. My regret is that I hadn't started the enquiry 2 months prior to making contact. I do believe that DA & AC both want out but it is their business and their decisions that count. I would think that they had been discussing the results and performances of MA way before he was relieved of his position. I think we were all concerned about the results and where we were in the league. Perhaps even surprised he kept his job as long as he did. One thing I do know is that there are no funds within CFC to pay off MA & Co. These funds will need to be paid by DA at a time agreed by both parties. I had been made aware of changes that were going to be made within the club prior to any protests. I think that the first organised protest by Paul sped up the course of events and Ashley Carsons resignation, but the appointment of Graham Bean was not an issue to us. MA was removed a few weeks after my initial approach.
So if I had acted 2 months earlier, MA would still have been manager and we would have been a further 2 months into our research.

Rob

[Zorro]

Phil V 72, on 07 January 2019 - 08:09 PM, said:

Zorro. Thanks for all your work on this and particularly in keeping everyone updated. I think it's very illuminating. The general impression I get from your message is that DA has decided to invest again to make the club a success and to turn this around. Through your experience of this process you think his intention is to turn it into a saleable asset?

What would be a 'saleable asset'?
From my viewpoint of being an asset, we would need to be in league 1, have no debts and returning a profit on the accounts. DA might think that is achievable but it will definitely cost him to achieve the results on the pitch and that is foremost to the fans. Do I think he will get a return on his investment? No, not a cat in hells chance.
Would we have bought at the right price? Not sure because the buyer always wants the cheapest price. Would DA have come out smiling, a definite NO, the seller always wants more than is offered.

I might be wrong but DA will certainly try to turn things around and throw more and more money at the problems, but I can't honestly see a return for him. I can't get my head around the whole scenario of pumping money in without addressing the income. All the loans that he puts into the club add to the debt, so a buyer is not going to increase his offer if there is more debt in the business, it would reduce.

If JS turns things around and the fans have something to cheer, then maybe the gates will increase and further income arrives within the club, but also to achieve success you need the players. CFC needs better players, these better players will see the wage bill increase, so at what point does it become a saleable asset?

Z

[Middle East]

Zorro, on 08 January 2019 - 04:57 PM, said:

What would be a 'saleable asset'?
From my viewpoint of being an asset, we would need to be in league 1, have no debts and returning a profit on the accounts. DA might think that is achievable but it will definitely cost him to achieve the results on the pitch and that is foremost to the fans. Do I think he will get a return on his investment? No, not a cat in hells chance.
Would we have bought at the right price? Not sure because the buyer always wants the cheapest price. Would DA have come out smiling, a definite NO, the seller always wants more than is offered.

I might be wrong but DA will certainly try to turn things around and throw more and more money at the problems, but I can't honestly see a return for him. I can't get my head around the whole scenario of pumping money in without addressing the income. All the loans that he puts into the club add to the debt, so a buyer is not going to increase his offer if there is more debt in the business, it would reduce.

If JS turns things around and the fans have something to cheer, then maybe the gates will increase and further income arrives within the club, but also to achieve success you need the players. CFC needs better players, these better players will see the wage bill increase, so at what point does it become a saleable asset?

Z

Z

Thank you for this, your previous posts and most of all your efforts in negotiating with DA.

It does appear a high risk strategy DA has embarked on to 'speculate to accumulate'and I can't see it working so as another poster mentioned it was very prudent to withdraw.

I pointed out at last year's AGM that it was our costs that needed addressing more urgently than our outgoings, though given reduced income they will both be dire now, which I intend to raise again.

I know you can't mention the asking price but both that and DA's intentions really are question for the AGM...however as neither he nor AC will be in attendance i suppose those questions will probably be an exercise in futility.

Thanks once again for posting the latest position...interesting times!

This post has been edited by Middle East: 08 January 2019 - 05:15 PM

[dim view]

Middle East, on 08 January 2019 - 05:12 PM, said:

Z

Thank you for this, your previous posts and most of all your efforts in negotiating with DA.

It does appear a high risk strategy DA has embarked on to 'speculate to accumulate'and I can't see it working so as another poster mentioned it was very prudent to withdraw.

I pointed out at last year's AGM that it was our costs that needed addressing more urgently than our outgoings, though given reduced income they will both be dire now, which I intend to raise again.

I know you can't mention the asking price but both that and DA's intentions really are question for the AGM...however as neither he nor AC will be in attendance i suppose those questions will probably be an exercise in futility.

Thanks once again for posting the latest position...interesting times!

Perhaps the only logical conclusion one can come to is that DA has a much better secret offer on the table if he regains league status - so much better than Z's that it tempts him to risk throwing more money at the current crisis.

One thing that occurs to me is that might be possible to buy Carson out now that Allen has got Bean in. What's his price?

[whittman]

azul, on 08 January 2019 - 04:14 PM, said:

Come on, a better analogy would to have a car worth a £1000, spend a £1000 on a respray, than have the wheels fall off, the engine seize up and the bottom fall out with rust and it to we worth £50 in scrap

Priceless

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Zorro, on 08 January 2019 - 04:43 PM, said:

Dave, I'm not going to answer all the questions that have been raised since my last post but I will say that the sale would have been very possible. My regret is that I hadn't started the enquiry 2 months prior to making contact. I do believe that DA & AC both want out but it is their business and their decisions that count. I would think that they had been discussing the results and performances of MA way before he was relieved of his position. I think we were all concerned about the results and where we were in the league. Perhaps even surprised he kept his job as long as he did. One thing I do know is that there are no funds within CFC to pay off MA & Co. These funds will need to be paid by DA at a time agreed by both parties. I had been made aware of changes that were going to be made within the club prior to any protests. I think that the first organised protest by Paul sped up the course of events and Ashley Carsons resignation, but the appointment of Graham Bean was not an issue to us. MA was removed a few weeks after my initial approach.
So if I had acted 2 months earlier, MA would still have been manager and we would have been a further 2 months into our research.

Rob

Thanks to you and your associates for this, Rob.

And for what's it's worth I agree with you stepping back.

If Allen's throw of a Sheridan shaped dice pays off then fine; I guess he'll deserve the right to demand more of his money back. However if not then let him take the financial smack in the gob. After all, it's his decisions that've seen his asset plummet in value...

[Phil V 72]

Zorro, on 08 January 2019 - 04:57 PM, said:

What would be a 'saleable asset'?
From my viewpoint of being an asset, we would need to be in league 1, have no debts and returning a profit on the accounts. DA might think that is achievable but it will definitely cost him to achieve the results on the pitch and that is foremost to the fans. Do I think he will get a return on his investment? No, not a cat in hells chance.
Would we have bought at the right price? Not sure because the buyer always wants the cheapest price. Would DA have come out smiling, a definite NO, the seller always wants more than is offered.

I might be wrong but DA will certainly try to turn things around and throw more and more money at the problems, but I can't honestly see a return for him. I can't get my head around the whole scenario of pumping money in without addressing the income. All the loans that he puts into the club add to the debt, so a buyer is not going to increase his offer if there is more debt in the business, it would reduce.

If JS turns things around and the fans have something to cheer, then maybe the gates will increase and further income arrives within the club, but also to achieve success you need the players. CFC needs better players, these better players will see the wage bill increase, so at what point does it become a saleable asset?

Z

Thank you. I've been baffled for some time as to how DA is letting CFC be run as it doesn't seem to have any obvious benefit for him, and even less so a coherent strategy. I'm a little concerned that the 'throw more money at it' approach isn't the answer either, unless it's managed properly.

Maybe he has faith that Pemberton can deliver a production line of home grown talent who can move the club forward on the playing side and in terms of the transfer fees? I just wondered if through this process you maybe had a clearer idea of what the plan might be.

I wonder if the club became a successful L1 club again whether he would actually sell? Time will tell.

Also, I just wanted to also say you deserve huge credit for the sensible decision to pull out at this time to allow the club to concentrate on hopefully staying in the league and stabilising. It shows you have the club's interests at heart and you'll have my support as and when this comes round again.

This post has been edited by Phil V 72: 08 January 2019 - 05:44 PM

[Skywalker]

Zorro, on 08 January 2019 - 04:43 PM, said:

Dave, I'm not going to answer all the questions that have been raised since my last post but I will say that the sale would have been very possible. My regret is that I hadn't started the enquiry 2 months prior to making contact. I do believe that DA & AC both want out but it is their business and their decisions that count. I would think that they had been discussing the results and performances of MA way before he was relieved of his position. I think we were all concerned about the results and where we were in the league. Perhaps even surprised he kept his job as long as he did. One thing I do know is that there are no funds within CFC to pay off MA & Co. These funds will need to be paid by DA at a time agreed by both parties. I had been made aware of changes that were going to be made within the club prior to any protests. I think that the first organised protest by Paul sped up the course of events and Ashley Carsons resignation, but the appointment of Graham Bean was not an issue to us. MA was removed a few weeks after my initial approach.
So if I had acted 2 months earlier, MA would still have been manager and we would have been a further 2 months into our research.

Rob

Out of interest, would you have kept Martin Allen as manager?

[Blue5]

Close but no prawn sarnies, on 08 January 2019 - 03:02 PM, said:

In all honesty NO !! Do you ?
Other than he may genuinely believe he has a chance of recouping more money doing things his way rather than cutting and running or he really does believe he doesnt do failure and will fail tyring to prove it !

I dont subscribe to the view he is siting on a fortune in terms of land value or the corperate side makes him rich ( I understand the revenues cover the ground costs not much more)

It could be that he REALLY loves CFC but just cant bring himself to admit it publically

I do not believe for one minute that David gets any entertainment or emotional benefit from his involvement and if this was about turning the ship around and getting as good a price as he can, you would expect coming from the sector that he does, he would be best placed to know when to stop chasing the roulette wheel.

Could the best spin-doctor offer any explanation as to the reasons why the club has been run as it has?

[Westbars Spireite]

Skywalker, on 08 January 2019 - 05:57 PM, said:

Out of interest, would you have kept Martin Allen as manager?

Credibility out the window if so!

[Doughnut]

Town_Fan, on 08 January 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

I would like to announce that I'm unlikely to sleep with Beyonce. I'd been courting Beyonce for some time but her husband seems unable / unwilling to facilitate my request. My interest will remain but I am saddened to say that at this point I will be unable to smash her backdoors in.

I also am chagrined to announce that my quest for the Iron Throne has also come up short.

I had to give this a green un. Although I disagree with your summary, this is outweighed by the phrase 'smash her backdoors in'

[dim view]

Phil V 72, on 08 January 2019 - 05:43 PM, said:

Maybe he has faith that Pemberton can deliver a production line of home grown talent who can move the club forward on the playing side

Hee hee.
You realise that if that happens it will mean that our IT man will go down in history as the man who saved CFC?

Chris would go apoplectic.

[metallilad]

dim view, on 08 January 2019 - 05:28 PM, said:

Perhaps the only logical conclusion one can come to is that DA has a much better secret offer on the table if he regains league status - so much better than Z's that it tempts him to risk throwing more money at the current crisis.

One thing that occurs to me is that might be possible to buy Carson out now that Allen has got Bean in. What's his price?

Just thinking the same thing, but he would aAnt his loan money back aswell.

[starsky72]

Zorro, on 07 January 2019 - 06:53 PM, said:

To bring everyone up to speed regarding a buyout, I have today unfortunately withdrawn our offer of buying the club. It is not the end of our interest but the circumstances have changed since my initial offer. MA & Co have departed, Graham Bean has been appointed and a new manager is imminent. These circumstances have changed the cash flow for this season to a point where it is not viable for us to be prepared to fund the shortfalls and waste money.

I have had explained to me the reasons behind a manager appointment rather than waiting and allowing Pemberton to continue in his current role and assurances that DA will continue to fund and support the new manager.

The door is not closed to us but the timescale for both parties to conduct satisfactory due diligence is key with time running out this season.

However, I can state that the monies was not an issue and thank everyone for both contacting me and assisting me in the background. We had gone as far as securing good income for the next 5 years from an outside group of companies who were willing to buy shares within CFC through the help of another fan who has been working behind the scenes.

The two bob millionaires as someone described them were far from two bob ones and could have bought the club outright, but no-one wants to take the responsibility of being the major shareholder. The new CFC would have had limits on the number of shares that could have been purchased which would not have put 1 person in the major shareholders category. The board would have been made up of major investors (or an appointed person within their organisation, such as accountants) and fans with the correct business credentials and replaced through rotations and voting after a specified timescale.

The crowdfunding idea would have been adopted where fans could have each bought new shares in CFC once the buyout had taken place which in turn would have secured more funds for the pot at CFC.

I look forward to the next chapter and hopefully we will review the situation again in the closed season. Sorry it’s not the news you were wanting to hear, but rest assured, I am not going anywhere.

Z

Well, I owe you an apology... I simply assumed that a fan takeover was nothing more than a pipedream, I did you a disservice and I apologise. I hope that once the dust settles and we avoid relegation you can resume your interest.. good luck

Stuart

[Skywalker]

Westbars Spireite, on 08 January 2019 - 06:23 PM, said:

Credibility out the window if so!

Certainly give supporters an excuse not to attend.

[Sammy Spireite]

dim view, on 08 January 2019 - 07:08 PM, said:

Hee hee.
You realise that if that happens it will mean that our IT man will go down in history as the man who saved CFC?

Chris would go apoplectic.

He needs to concentrate on saving the IT system, first!

[Close but no prawn sarnies]

Blue5, on 08 January 2019 - 06:06 PM, said:

I do not believe for one minute that David gets any entertainment or emotional benefit from his involvement and if this was about turning the ship around and getting as good a price as he can, you would expect coming from the sector that he does, he would be best placed to know when to stop chasing the roulette wheel.

Could the best spin-doctor offer any explanation as to the reasons why the club has been run as it has?

Beyond even Alistair Cambell !!!

[hewittfan]

Sammy Spireite, on 08 January 2019 - 01:45 PM, said:

The 3.5 year deal bit is pure speculation.

The local journo has already tweeted that his source (who first revealed JS to him) has told him that it was a 2 year deal.

Announcement today says a three year contract.

[azul]

After all this DA has said he’ll never sell until we’re back in the league

So has all this been a waste of time Zorro