[Bonnyman]

seeing as they notched about 40 last year and both had spells out of action ward at the start and jack over christmas,i would say that 50 is certainly a possible target for the season for the pair,i really dont think this is unachievable on last years figures and if the defence improves which it should do with page and austin,i belive a high finishing position is highly likely,i dont think jack will get sussed this season he is just too intelligent a player,most defenders in this league arent capable of living with him and they cant handle wards pace which is quick for this level also.......lets face it there is only 47 left to get

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

bonnyman, on Aug 10 2008, 05:06 PM, said:

seeing as they notched about 40 last year and both had spells out of action ward at the start and jack over christmas,i would say that 50 is certainly a possible target for the season for the pair,i really dont think this is unachievable on last years figures and if the defence improves which it should do with page and austin,i belive a high finishing position is highly likely,i dont think jack will get sussed this season he is just too intelligent a player,most defenders in this league arent capable of living with him and they cant handle wards pace which is quick for this level also.......lets face it there is only 47 left to get

Depends how many games they play, if they play the majority then 50 is achievable. Ward doesn't seem to have so mny hamstring problems now but can Jack stay on the pitch?

[Bonnyman]

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on Aug 10 2008, 05:12 PM, said:

Depends how many games they play, if they play the majority then 50 is achievable. Ward doesn't seem to have so mny hamstring problems now but can Jack stay on the pitch?

if these two can keep fit then the muppets who think we need a big front man will go very quiet

[Wooden Spoon]

bonnyman, on Aug 10 2008, 05:14 PM, said:

if these two can keep fit then the muppets who think we need a big front man will go very quiet

A big man gives us other options though, and its not always possible to play the game on the floor for 90 mins.

Ward worked his socks off yesterday. When the ball was cleared out of defence, I felt a bit sorry for him, trying to win the ball in the air against the bigger CB. His feet must have been 2 feet clear of the ground, and it still went over him.

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

bonnyman, on Aug 10 2008, 05:14 PM, said:

if these two can keep fit then the muppets who think we need a big front man will go very quiet

put me in the muppet category as come january when the pitches are like a bog and the wind is swirling and the rain is lashing down I'd like to think we have a battering ram to come on and mix it

[marlons curtains]

bonnyman, on Aug 10 2008, 05:14 PM, said:

if these two can keep fit then the muppets who think we need a big front man will go very quiet

Thats pleasant. I am one of those who think a tall striker in the squad will be of benefit. Thanks.

[Goku]

bonnyman, on Aug 10 2008, 05:14 PM, said:

if these two can keep fit then the muppets who think we need a big front man will go very quiet

And if they don't, then you'll look a bit of a tail.

[Andy Spireite]

bonnyman, on Aug 10 2008, 05:14 PM, said:

if these two can keep fit then the muppets who think we need a big front man will go very quiet

It's horses for courses, some times Ward and Lester will prosper if we can keep the ball on the floor and pass it around a bit but sometimes we will need the aerial presence when we either can't work it across the floor or we reach the point in a game where we need a bit of variety

[BigBlue]

bonnyman, on Aug 10 2008, 05:14 PM, said:

if these two can keep fit then the muppets who think we need a big front man will go very quiet

Bet you will have to put Rico on that list, as i bet before the end of the month we will have a big un in the squad, Shove me in there as well, a big un will be essentail to get out of this division.
It doesn't mean he has to be a starter, the different option of changing a game from the bench is the main reason.

[Doughnut]

bonnyman, on Aug 10 2008, 05:14 PM, said:

if these two can keep fit then the muppets who think we need a big front man will go very quiet

You really can be an arrogant pratt! So now I'm a muppet because I believe we could do with a big target man type to offer us an alternative option/outlet up front? I'll go and join the ranks of those you labelled 'morons' because they picked a non-blue coloured away shirt for us to wear, which doesn't match the songs we sing.

Given your post I suspect you'll disagree with this but I believe Fletch did a good job for us last season. His goals:games ratio was not impressive; but his contribution during the season was. The number of headers he won, the flick ons which went to our own players, the fact he often had to be double marked in a number of aerial battles (which mean't the opponents would be momentarily light at the back elsewhere). He was also invaluable at set pieces (attacking and defensive) due to his height and strength. A number of posters on this forum commented on how he formed a good partnership with Jack. If you believe we don't need these attributes from a striker fair enough. I disagree but that doesn't make you a muppet.

I can't speak for the rest of my mates from the Jim Henson factory but I would like to see someone of this stature to join the Club because of the fact he gives us an alternative option up front. Rico was heavilly criticised for not having a Plan B or C last season. What happens during a game if the opponents utterly shut down our passing game, or the pitch is not conducive to a passing game and Jamie and Jack become ineffective? Would a target man not be an alternative option or do we just stick to the failing original plan of keeping the ball on the deck when the opponents have sussed us and nullified the threat?

I don't think anyone has suggested we sign a big striker to replace Jack or Jamie. And by signing such a player I'm not suggesting we resort to hoofball the minute he walks onto the pitch. It just gives us an alternative for when our original plan isn't working.

This post has been edited by Doughnut: 10 August 2008 - 05:39 PM

[boratcfc]

Doughnut, on Aug 10 2008, 06:37 PM, said:

You really can be an arrogant pratt! So now I'm a muppet because I believe we could do with a big target man type to offer us an alternative option/outlet up front? I'll go and join the ranks of those you labelled 'morons' because they picked a non-blue coloured away shirt for us to wear, which doesn't match the songs we sing.

Given your post I suspect you'll disagree with this but I believe Fletch did a good job for us last season. His goals:games ratio was not impressive; but his contribution during the season was. The number of headers he won, the flick ons which went to our own players, the fact he often had to be double marked in a number of aerial battles (which mean't the opponents would be momentarily light at the back elsewhere). He was also invaluable at set pieces (attacking and defensive) due to his height and strength. A number of posters on this forum commented on how he formed a good partnership with Jack. If you believe we don't need these attributes from a striker fair enough. I disagree but that doesn't make you a muppet.

I can't speak for the rest of my mates from the Jim Henson factory but I would like to see someone of this stature to join the Club because of the fact he gives us an alternative option up front. Rico was heavilly criticised for not having a Plan B or C last season. What happens during a game if the opponents utterly shut down our passing game, or the pitch is not conducive to a passing game and Jamie and Jack become ineffective? Would a target man not be an alternative option or do we just stick to the failing original plan of keeping the ball on the deck when the opponents have sussed us and nullified the threat?

I don't think anyone has suggested we sign a big striker to replace Jack or Jamie. And by signing such a player I'm not suggesting we resort to hoofball the minute he walks onto the pitch. It just gives us an alternative for when our original plan isn't working.

just cant undersatnd why people think that lumping the ball up front helps in anyway 9 times out of 10 if u lauch the ball up front its straight back in ur half. i lost count how many times roache just booted it aimlessly only for us to be back under pressure. do man u have a target man?? do brazil? did spain in the euros

This post has been edited by boratcfc: 10 August 2008 - 05:45 PM

[Doughnut]

boratcfc, on Aug 10 2008, 06:41 PM, said:

just cant undersatnd why people think that lumping the ball up front helps in anyway 9 times out of 10 if u lauch the ball up front its straight back in ur half. i lost count how many times roache just booted it aimlessly only for us to be back under pressure. do man u have a target man?? do brazil? did spain in the euros

As I explained in my post I'm not advocating we lump it forward at every opportunity but a bigger striker offers an alternative if the passing game isn't working. The teams you have mentioned Man Utd, Brazil and Spain are all technically very good footballing teams who have the players to play a great passing game. We're a Div 2 team, and like most/all of the other teams in the lower leagues are not capable of playing sublime passing football on a regular basis.

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

boratcfc, on Aug 10 2008, 06:41 PM, said:

just cant undersatnd why people think that lumping the ball up front helps in anyway 9 times out of 10 if u lauch the ball up front its straight back in ur half. i lost count how many times roache just booted it aimlessly only for us to be back under pressure. do man u have a target man?? do brazil? did spain in the euros

Of more relevance how many of our opponents in the heights of league 2 don't have a target man for us to combat? Sometimes you just need a big lad to counter the opposition at set plays when you are under the cosh.

Sometimes you can't play total football out of defence. If you are under pressure sometimes you just have to clear you lines and go for the safe option.

Do man utd have a target man in the squad, yes Saha although he's never fit but Fergie sees the need for the option. Chelsea have Drogba, Kaka for Brazil is not what you would call a midget at 6'1".

Where would you like to take your arguement now?

This post has been edited by Ernie Ernie Ernie: 10 August 2008 - 06:32 PM

[marlons curtains]

When weve tried to play all the football you can and are still 1-0 down with 15 to go, having an alternative striker to try something different I still see as essential.
One of the best link ups ive seen at town in last couple of seasons, was Chief and Ward. Unfortunately only lasted a few games through Wards injury, but Chiefs flick ons for Ward to run onto, worked very well.

I still go back to Mansfield at home last season..Ward and Lester were being well marshalled... as soon as Big Fletch came on, he took the centre halves way from Jack and Jamie, allowing them the space to score.

Jack and Jamie obviously to start.... but every side needs a plan B.

[Bonnyman]

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on Aug 10 2008, 07:05 PM, said:

Of more relevance how many of our opponents in the heights of league 2 don't have a target man for us to combat? Sometimes you just need a big lad to counter the opposition at set plays when you are under the cosh.

Sometimes you can't play total football out of defence. If you are under pressure sometimes you just have to clear you lines and go for the safe option.

Do man utd have a target man in the squad, yes Saha although he's never fit but Fergie sees the need for the option. Chelsea have Drogba, Kaka for Brazil is not what you would call a midget at 6'1".

Where would you like to take your arguement now?

chelsea do have drogba but he plays on his own,as for the other 2 you quoted ,well they have never ever been target men as long as they have played football and they like it on the deck,saha cant head for toffee.imo you just need a fresh pair of legs upfront to change things about,preferably with abit of pace,we dont need another steve fletcher as nice a bloke as he was he didnt suit our style of play we are a passing team with plenty of energy and that is how it should be,having a big man changes the mindset of the players and they end up lumping it

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

bonnyman, on Aug 10 2008, 07:48 PM, said:

chelsea do have drogba but he plays on his own,as for the other 2 you quoted ,well they have never ever been target men as long as they have played football and they like it on the deck,saha cant head for toffee.imo you just need a fresh pair of legs upfront to change things about,preferably with abit of pace,we dont need another steve fletcher as nice a bloke as he was he didnt suit our style of play we are a passing team with plenty of energy and that is how it should be,having a big man changes the mindset of the players and they end up lumping it

What happens when their is puddles on the pitch with clumps of mud and the ball won't roll and you are 1 down with ten to play?

[Bonnyman]

Doughnut, on Aug 10 2008, 06:37 PM, said:

You really can be an arrogant pratt! So now I'm a muppet because I believe we could do with a big target man type to offer us an alternative option/outlet up front? I'll go and join the ranks of those you labelled 'morons' because they picked a non-blue coloured away shirt for us to wear, which doesn't match the songs we sing.

Given your post I suspect you'll disagree with this but I believe Fletch did a good job for us last season. His goals:games ratio was not impressive; but his contribution during the season was. The number of headers he won, the flick ons which went to our own players, the fact he often had to be double marked in a number of aerial battles (which mean't the opponents would be momentarily light at the back elsewhere). He was also invaluable at set pieces (attacking and defensive) due to his height and strength. A number of posters on this forum commented on how he formed a good partnership with Jack. If you believe we don't need these attributes from a striker fair enough. I disagree but that doesn't make you a muppet.

I can't speak for the rest of my mates from the Jim Henson factory but I would like to see someone of this stature to join the Club because of the fact he gives us an alternative option up front. Rico was heavilly criticised for not having a Plan B or C last season. What happens during a game if the opponents utterly shut down our passing game, or the pitch is not conducive to a passing game and Jamie and Jack become ineffective? Would a target man not be an alternative option or do we just stick to the failing original plan of keeping the ball on the deck when the opponents have sussed us and nullified the threat?

I don't think anyone has suggested we sign a big striker to replace Jack or Jamie. And by signing such a player I'm not suggesting we resort to hoofball the minute he walks onto the pitch. It just gives us an alternative for when our original plan isn't working.

you are right i dont agree,i never rated fletcher as ithought he looked past it and i never thought he formed a good partnership with jack,the best footbal was when ward and lester played together ...milton keynes away a prime example,footballs changed,the old fashioned lump upfront is and should be a thing of the past,we need players who are comfortable with the ball at their feet,we can pass our way out of this division and that is how it should be

[Bonnyman]

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on Aug 10 2008, 07:51 PM, said:

What happens when their is puddles on the pitch with clumps of mud and the ball won't roll and you are 1 down with ten to play?

when was the last time that happened at saltergate ,we have an outstanding groundsmen who keeps the pitch in a1 condition and winters are hardly harsh nowadays,they dont even come off with muddy knees

[Frank Thacker]

bonnyman, on Aug 10 2008, 07:59 PM, said:

when was the last time that happened at saltergate ,we have an outstanding groundsmen who keeps the pitch in a1 condition and winters are hardly harsh nowadays,they dont even come off with muddy knees

I might be imagining it, but I thought the goalmouths were "cutting up" in pre-season friendlies. Ant is a fine groundsman but even he may struggle this season to repair what was apparently done to create the "Baseball Ground goalmouth" look for that film. As far as the big man goes, I'm happy to play Waldorf to someone else's Statler.

[Spireite-Karl]

bonnyman, on Aug 10 2008, 07:55 PM, said:

you are right i dont agree,i never rated fletcher as ithought he looked past it and i never thought he formed a good partnership with jack,the best footbal was when ward and lester played together ...milton keynes away a prime example,footballs changed,the old fashioned lump upfront is and should be a thing of the past,we need players who are comfortable with the ball at their feet,we can pass our way out of this division and that is how it should be

MK away we didn't need a plan 'B' so that's irrelevant! I hear what your saying and for me JW and JL EVERY time, but their is going to be plenty of times this season were our midfield is not creating and JW & JL are struggling so, then what? Yes we could make a midfield change but if no impact then what?? We need another option and I'm all for a big guy, just one a little more mobile than The Chief and Guns

Muppets is a bit strong though, people have different views!

This post has been edited by Spireite-Karl: 10 August 2008 - 07:26 PM