[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

bonnyman, on Aug 10 2008, 07:59 PM, said:

when was the last time that happened at saltergate ,we have an outstanding groundsmen who keeps the pitch in a1 condition and winters are hardly harsh nowadays,they dont even come off with muddy knees

have we had an fa dispensation to play the rest of our games at home then or are we sending Ant out every week prior to away games

[Bonnyman]

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on Aug 10 2008, 08:26 PM, said:

have we had an fa dispensation to play the rest of our games at home then or are we sending Ant out every week prior to away games

how many pitches last season away from home was it impossible to play attractive passing football?....i went away to as many as i have in a few years and i cannot remember thinking we were beat by the pitch,wycombe was a bit sandy if i can remember but we lost because we were awful,infact the worst conditions we played in was at home against hereford on a night where it lashed it down,they had a team full of great big donkeys like trevor benjamin...(probably the kind of player you admire ) and we played the ball around them

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

bonnyman, on Aug 10 2008, 09:12 PM, said:

how many pitches last season away from home was it impossible to play attractive passing football?....i went away to as many as i have in a few years and i cannot remember thinking we were beat by the pitch,wycombe was a bit sandy if i can remember but we lost because we were awful,infact the worst conditions we played in was at home against hereford on a night where it lashed it down,they had a team full of great big donkeys like trevor benjamin...(probably the kind of player you admire ) and we played the ball around them

If we have a game we aren't winning and all the options on the bench are the same as the ones on the pitch and have proved to be totally ineffective how would you change the game?

I'd snatch your hands off for a young Tevor Benjamin there weren't many lower league defenders that could handle him in his prime were there?

This post has been edited by Ernie Ernie Ernie: 10 August 2008 - 08:17 PM

[Bonnyman]

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on Aug 10 2008, 09:16 PM, said:

If we have a game we aren't winning and all the options on the bench are the same as the ones on the pitch and have proved to be totally ineffective how would you change the game?

I'd snatch your hands off for a young Tevor Benjamin there weren't many lower league defenders that could handle him in his prime were there?

then i would change the system,id rather favour pace over height in this division,most of the centre halves are slow or not as gifted tecnically with the ball,it suits them to get drawn into an aerial battle.....we have a forward in jack that is probably the best we will ever have ,he dosent want to be chasing flicks and scraping for pieces he wants it too his feet and he needs a partner like ward who will pull defences all over creating space for him ,we need a young lad who is quick and who dosent mind coming off the bench if the front 2 are knackered,make the oppositions centre backs work,its good movement and intelligent passes that will win this league easily not route 1 crap....lets set our standards a bit higher

[marlons curtains]

bonnyman, on Aug 10 2008, 11:32 PM, said:

then i would change the system,id rather favour pace over height in this division,most of the centre halves are slow or not as gifted tecnically with the ball,it suits them to get drawn into an aerial battle.....we have a forward in jack that is probably the best we will ever have ,he dosent want to be chasing flicks and scraping for pieces he wants it too his feet and he needs a partner like ward who will pull defences all over creating space for him ,we need a young lad who is quick and who dosent mind coming off the bench if the front 2 are knackered,make the oppositions centre backs work,its good movement and intelligent passes that will win this league easily not route 1 crap....lets set our standards a bit higher

Were going to have to agree to disagree on this one.... And ill continue to be a muppet... as long as i can be Animal,,always fancied playing the drums.

[Doughnut]

bonnyman, on Aug 10 2008, 07:55 PM, said:

you are right i dont agree,i never rated fletcher as ithought he looked past it and i never thought he formed a good partnership with jack,the best footbal was when ward and lester played together ...milton keynes away a prime example,footballs changed,the old fashioned lump upfront is and should be a thing of the past,we need players who are comfortable with the ball at their feet,we can pass our way out of this division and that is how it should be

I'm not sure its realistic to expect a Div 2 team to have 10 outfield players who are all comfortable on the ball and good passers of the ball. There's a reason these guys are playing Div 2 level football, ie there is something missing from their game, Niven is a perfect example of this. Lets look at the CFC squad we have right now, are they all comfortable with the ball at their feet and are they all good passers of the ball? Even if you do believe we have such a squad that could pass their way out of this division, what about when our opponents close us down so quickly and/or play a system where our passing game isn't working? What then?

[Doughnut]

Spireite-Karl, on Aug 10 2008, 08:25 PM, said:

MK away we didn't need a plan 'B' so that's irrelevant! I hear what your saying and for me JW and JL EVERY time, but their is going to be plenty of times this season were our midfield is not creating and JW & JL are struggling so, then what? Yes we could make a midfield change but if no impact then what?? We need another option and I'm all for a big guy, just one a little more mobile than The Chief and Guns

Muppets is a bit strong though, people have different views!

Its just down right rude, mate and so un-necessary. Particularly as the topic is totally subjective.

[marlons curtains]

Doughnut, on Aug 10 2008, 11:37 PM, said:

I'm not sure its realistic to expect a Div 2 team to have 10 outfield players who are all comfortable on the ball and good passers of the ball. There's a reason these guys are playing Div 2 level football, ie there is something missing from their game, Niven is a perfect example of this. Lets look at the CFC squad we have right now, are they all comfortable with the ball at their feet and are they all good passers of the ball? Even if you do believe we have such a squad that could pass their way out of this division, what about when our opponents close us down so quickly and/or play a system where our passing game isn't working? What then?

I think we also do the big man a slight disservice by inferring that all they are good for is hitting on the bonce. best two goals i saw Bruno score began with dribbles from outside the box...Hartlepool and his hat trick goal against Cardiff.. granted Fletch and Chief were more one dimensional..... Folan?

[Doughnut]

marlons curtains, on Aug 10 2008, 11:42 PM, said:

I think we also do the big man a slight disservice by inferring that all they are good for is hitting on the bonce. best two goals i saw Bruno score began with dribbles from outside the box...Hartlepool and his hat trick goal against Cardiff.. granted Fletch and Chief were more one dimensional..... Folan?

Yeah, you're right. He may be good with the ball at his feet too, (at a much higher level I think Peter Crouch is seen as a big gangly target man and his skills with the ball at his feet are often overlooked). We'll have to see who we do sign.

I'd love Bonnyman to be proved right and we play a wonderful passing game that gets us out of this division. I just think there will be times were the Fletch-type is needed, we've all mentioned the reasons why.

[Bonnyman]

Doughnut, on Aug 11 2008, 12:04 AM, said:

Yeah, you're right. He may be good with the ball at his feet too, (at a much higher level I think Peter Crouch is seen as a big gangly target man and his skills with the ball at his feet are often overlooked). We'll have to see who we do sign.

I'd love Bonnyman to be proved right and we play a wonderful passing game that gets us out of this division. I just think there will be times were the Fletch-type is needed, we've all mentioned the reasons why.

i just can see the type of player we will get lumbered with and he will be an imobile donkey,i can see everyones point in saying what happens if we need a plan b ,but surely there is more too football than just throwing a big lad on upfront,lets face it we evidently had about 10 goalscoring chances against barnet,i can see that happening in every game,id rather have a player like dowson personally,last year we had too many forwards imo,every one was different which i thought was a problem,id much rather change like for like,i actually think ricco is trying to build a passing team,he must surely have analysed our best performances of last season and realised when it was on the deck we looked decent

[Andy Spireite]

bonnyman, on Aug 11 2008, 08:31 AM, said:

i just can see the type of player we will get lumbered with and he will be an imobile donkey,i can see everyones point in saying what happens if we need a plan b ,but surely there is more too football than just throwing a big lad on upfront,lets face it we evidently had about 10 goalscoring chances against barnet,i can see that happening in every game,id rather have a player like dowson personally,last year we had too many forwards imo,every one was different which i thought was a problem,id much rather change like for like,i actually think ricco is trying to build a passing team,he must surely have analysed our best performances of last season and realised when it was on the deck we looked decent

Bonnyman, the reason that Rico seems to be biding his time with regards to a big man appears to be so that he can get a decent player and not just the 'donkey' you spoke of.

Again, I don't think anyone is saying that they don't prefer town to play passing football and score some great goals off the deck but there are times when a bigger man can help out:

1. Attacking/defending set pieces
2. Helping when the pitch does not lend itself to flowing passing football
3. Helping when the opposing centre backs are dominating our front two
4. Being a plan B if our preferred plan (Ward and Lester) isn't working
5. Cover for injuries/suspensions - granted this could be done with a 'little un' but we would be unlikely to be able to bring in another option in this mould that is as good as Jamie and Jack.

I think we all want the same thing, town to score goals and win.

If the goals are all masterpieces then great but, to be honest, as long as we get the ball in the net more times than the opposition, I don't really mind how they come.

[fishini]

marlons curtains, on Aug 10 2008, 11:36 PM, said:

Were going to have to agree to disagree on this one.... And ill continue to be a muppet... as long as i can be Animal,,always fancied playing the drums.

More like Miss Piggy

[Wooden Spoon]

bonnyman, on Aug 10 2008, 11:32 PM, said:

then i would change the system,id rather favour pace over height in this division,most of the centre halves are slow or not as gifted tecnically with the ball,it suits them to get drawn into an aerial battle.....we have a forward in jack that is probably the best we will ever have ,he dosent want to be chasing flicks and scraping for pieces he wants it too his feet and he needs a partner like ward who will pull defences all over creating space for him ,we need a young lad who is quick and who dosent mind coming off the bench if the front 2 are knackered,make the oppositions centre backs work,its good movement and intelligent passes that will win this league easily not route 1 crap....lets set our standards a bit higher

What if a team plays with 5 in the middle, and a deep back 4?

They come to completely stiffle the game and get a draw.

In that situation a big guy can get on the end of high/long balls and open up the game, or hold it up and bring others into play.

[Zeus]

bonnyman, on Aug 10 2008, 07:55 PM, said:

you are right i dont agree,i never rated fletcher as ithought he looked past it and i never thought he formed a good partnership with jack,the best footbal was when ward and lester played together ...milton keynes away a prime example,footballs changed,the old fashioned lump upfront is and should be a thing of the past,we need players who are comfortable with the ball at their feet,we can pass our way out of this division and that is how it should be

Are you serious? Steve Fletcher was quality last season. Holding the ball up, nodding it on. His contribution must have won us many points last season and as long as we don't have an option similar to his, then we could suffer from a lack of alternatives. We need a target man, as others have said before me, to give us an alternative and to help us win points perhaps when we don't deserve to. That's how you win promotion.

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

bonnyman, on Aug 11 2008, 08:31 AM, said:

i just can see the type of player we will get lumbered with and he will be an imobile donkey,i can see everyones point in saying what happens if we need a plan b ,but surely there is more too football than just throwing a big lad on upfront,lets face it we evidently had about 10 goalscoring chances against barnet,i can see that happening in every game,id rather have a player like dowson personally,last year we had too many forwards imo,every one was different which i thought was a problem,id much rather change like for like,i actually think ricco is trying to build a passing team,he must surely have analysed our best performances of last season and realised when it was on the deck we looked decent

My arguement is if pace and guile isn't working why will it work by bringing on the same type of player? If pace hasn't caused the opposition any problems in a game why would it does so by bringingon a similalry fast player?

I love pace in a team as it scares the opposition but sometimes you just need a different option even if in an ideal world you don't like to see it used.

[Bonnyman]

D Loizou, on Aug 11 2008, 10:46 AM, said:

Are you serious? Steve Fletcher was quality last season. Holding the ball up, nodding it on. His contribution must have won us many points last season and as long as we don't have an option similar to his, then we could suffer from a lack of alternatives. We need a target man, as others have said before me, to give us an alternative and to help us win points perhaps when we don't deserve to. That's how you win promotion.

steve fletcher is an honest pro and an allround good bloke,but he certainly wasnt quality,he was past it,his legs had gone and he hardly scored any goals,he was absolutely useless if we broke fast from a set piece,slower than a bransons bus and playing him meant ward played out left in some games when he is an out and out striker,id like to know how many of lesters goals were from fletchs assists,id guess it would be a small percentage

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on Aug 11 2008, 05:14 PM, said:

My arguement is if pace and guile isn't working why will it work by bringing on the same type of player? If pace hasn't caused the opposition any problems in a game why would it does so by bringingon a similalry fast player?

I love pace in a team as it scares the opposition but sometimes you just need a different option even if in an ideal world you don't like to see it used.

if pace and guile isnt working you are probably getting beat by a better side

[Wooden Spoon]

bonnyman, on Aug 11 2008, 09:08 PM, said:

if pace and guile isnt working you are probably getting beat by a better side

Not always.

A side can play 5 accross the middle,ith a deep back 4. As the `special one` said, they parked the bus in front of the goal.

Sometimes you might need a big fella to upset the defenders and make some space for the others.

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

if pace and guile isnt working you are probably getting beat by a better side
[/quote]

That's a bit of a one dimensional approach which basically says if what we have isn't working then accept it, we've lost

[h again]

bonnyman, on Aug 11 2008, 09:08 PM, said:

steve fletcher is an honest pro and an allround good bloke,but he certainly wasnt quality,he was past it,his legs had gone and he hardly scored any goals,he was absolutely useless if we broke fast from a set piece,slower than a bransons bus and playing him meant ward played out left in some games when he is an out and out striker,id like to know how many of lesters goals were from fletchs assists,id guess it would be a small percentage


if pace and guile isnt working you are probably getting beat by a better side

I have to agree with death on this one. Any team can negate the threat of two small strikers by basically shutting up shop. They probably won't present anything much in the way of goal threat themselves, but they'll take a draw with the chance of a lucky breakaway - how many times did we see it at Saltergate last sesason?
If the defence is packed with bodies, then the only route left is over the top to a big striker. It's an option we desperately need, otherwise I can see a repeat of last season where we play teams off the park away from home but fail to break deep defences down at Saltergate. And we MUST win more at home to get the crowds and the money in.