[Wooden Spoon]

 Mr Mercury, on 15 June 2024 - 05:24 PM, said:

So those who voted for Brexit were ?conned and hoodwinked??
Those who voted for Boris were ?duped by get ?Brexit done? and the Mailesque media.
Those who vote Tory this time are possibly ?morally bankrupt? and happy to support liars and Charlatans?
And those who vote Reform this time, well ?clownish doesn?t come close to describing those who?d vote for it?? I?d imagine your buzz words of bigot, barely concealed racist etc would be your way of describing them? Apologies if wrong..
Then you had the audacity to claim in a previous post that the list of posters who won?t debate with you grows ever longer! I wonder why?

Like Skinner, Crow and Benn.


Anti Euro xenophobic Tory Scammers.

[isleaiw1]

 Mr Mercury, on 15 June 2024 - 05:24 PM, said:

So those who voted for Brexit were ?conned and hoodwinked??
Those who voted for Boris were ?duped by get ?Brexit done? and the Mailesque media.
Those who vote Tory this time are possibly ?morally bankrupt? and happy to support liars and Charlatans?
And those who vote Reform this time, well ?clownish doesn?t come close to describing those who?d vote for it?? I?d imagine your buzz words of bigot, barely concealed racist etc would be your way of describing them? Apologies if wrong..
Then you had the audacity to claim in a previous post that the list of posters who won?t debate with you grows ever longer! I wonder why?

It's an interesting concept of debate where bits that you don't like don't get responded to and instead a new post is made....

The result is a foregone conclusion this time but like with Boris,do the public really know what they are letting themselves in for..

2m new NHS appointments - isn't that less than 1%.... and we don't have any staff to man them...

6500 new teachers - but what are they doing to attract them?

A growing NHS funding problem that will only get worse - not mentioned....

And no acceptance of the position we are really in except some magical growth from somewhere that will pay for everything!

[Wooden Spoon]

 isleaiw1, on 15 June 2024 - 09:00 PM, said:

It's an interesting concept of debate where bits that you don't like don't get responded to and instead a new post is made....

The result is a foregone conclusion this time but like with Boris,do the public really know what they are letting themselves in for..

2m new NHS appointments - isn't that less than 1%.... and we don't have any staff to man them...

6500 new teachers - but what are they doing to attract them?

A growing NHS funding problem that will only get worse - not mentioned....

And no acceptance of the position we are really in except some magical growth from somewhere that will pay for everything!

The UK GB green power is a great idea. Fairly low outlay, 0 return for the first 5 years or so, but the next 20 is just a win. No cost for them in terms of network because UK power networks maintain the grid. That future income can be used to mortgage investment in other devices, and of course year by year each new wind farm will increase this.


The report from 10 years ago into the railways (independant government funded report) concluded nationalisation of the railways would centralise ticket prices, reduce cost to the passengers. Would reduce running costs due to things like HR coming under 1 umbrella instead of many. So of course the tories ignored that

AgIn zero cost. Let the Francis?s expire and just take in house.


2 policies that have benefits to the nation and the treasury and the environment


What?s not to like about that?

[fishini]

 Wooden Spoon, on 15 June 2024 - 09:29 PM, said:

The UK GB green power is a great idea. Fairly low outlay, 0 return for the first 5 years or so, but the next 20 is just a win. No cost for them in terms of network because UK power networks maintain the grid. That future income can be used to mortgage investment in other devices, and of course year by year each new wind farm will increase this.


The report from 10 years ago into the railways (independant government funded report) concluded nationalisation of the railways would centralise ticket prices, reduce cost to the passengers. Would reduce running costs due to things like HR coming under 1 umbrella instead of many. So of course the tories ignored that

AgIn zero cost. Let the Francis?s expire and just take in house.


2 policies that have benefits to the nation and the treasury and the environment


What?s not to like about that?

You know about his dislike of labour I assume. He says they can't be trusted and that's coming from an accountant

[isleaiw1]

 fishini, on 16 June 2024 - 05:08 AM, said:

You know about his dislike of labour I assume. He says they can't be trusted and that's coming from an accountant

Another positive contribution. Have you read the manifestos yet? How would you solve the looming NHS crisis? Where are the extra staff coming from? How is the growth coming from not much extra investment? Where are the extra teachers coming from given there seems to be no incentive to join?

I don't particularly object to nationalising the railways, do I expect them to get any better or cheaper? No, but as its only 2 or 3 days a week I will live with it... on the power company, how will that play alongside the existing power generators, is it in addition to or are we nationalising them to? And if its alongside, how is it little investment if it secures our energy needs?

I don't dislike Labour - I just read things and ask questions. Can you answer them or do you not care as its Labour...

Maybe you think nationalising stuff makes it more efficient too 🤔

This post has been edited by isleaiw1: Today, 07:32 AM

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

 Wooden Spoon, on 15 June 2024 - 08:36 PM, said:

Like Skinner, Crow and Benn.


Anti Euro xenophobic Tory Scammers.

You're better than such victimhood, Rob.

You, like those named (not to mention a certain Jezza Corbs, of course) offered legitimate and measurable reasons to leave. Ones not revolving around perverted patriotism or a race to the bottom in terms of workers', consumer or environmental protections.

Folk still championing those that did, or saying Johnson's 'oven ready deal' isn't the economy hammering failure it's turned out (yeah, who cudda predicted a pathological liar and buffoon would deliver that. Oh, wait...), must explain why for themselves.

Or not, perhaps.

But my current point is about the 'Reform' manifesto. I repeat: how many of those saying they'll vote that way are across their health policy? Their plans to introduce private insurance? The impact of their environmental policy? Allowing those making billions from fossil fuels - or flushing raw sewage into our waters - greater freedoms to do so? Their impact on schools or public services or workers rights...or...or...

Or is it all about immigration. Countless voters who've never met or been effected by an asylum seeker convinced by Farage's racist rhetoric.

This thread offers a golden opportunity to discuss that question...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: Today, 08:36 AM

[Mr Mercury]

As the wise Goku once said on these very pages. You don?t have to be affected by something to be concerned or worried about it.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

After my initial giggling at Nadine Dorries' face on my teevee, I was left genuinely laughing at her repeat 'I love Boris' routine.

At which point I turned over to see Nadim 'five million tax dodge' Zahawi re-writing reality in the Liar's favour himself.

So my suspicious and cynical mind wonders - a return for the most corrupt politician of modern times claiming 'I'm the only one who can save the Tories from Farage', perhaps....?

[fishini]

 isleaiw1, on 16 June 2024 - 07:31 AM, said:

Another positive contribution. Have you read the manifestos yet? How would you solve the looming NHS crisis? Where are the extra staff coming from? How is the growth coming from not much extra investment? Where are the extra teachers coming from given there seems to be no incentive to join?

I don't particularly object to nationalising the railways, do I expect them to get any better or cheaper? No, but as its only 2 or 3 days a week I will live with it... on the power company, how will that play alongside the existing power generators, is it in addition to or are we nationalising them to? And if its alongside, how is it little investment if it secures our energy needs?

I don't dislike Labour - I just read things and ask questions. Can you answer them or do you not care as its Labour...

Maybe you think nationalising stuff makes it more efficient too 🤔

No problem at all but you have little to nothing to say about the Tory manifesto. They will have exactly the same problems as labour

[Mr Mercury]

 The Earl of Chesterfield, on 16 June 2024 - 09:03 AM, said:

After my initial giggling at Nadine Dorries' face on my teevee, I was left genuinely laughing at her repeat 'I love Boris' routine.

At which point I turned over to see Nadim 'five million tax dodge' Zahawi re-writing reality in the Liar's favour himself.

So my suspicious and cynical mind wonders - a return for the most corrupt politician of modern times claiming 'I'm the only one who can save the Tories from Farage', perhaps....?

Surely Blair isn?t going to join the Tories?

[isleaiw1]

 fishini, on 16 June 2024 - 09:20 AM, said:

No problem at all but you have little to nothing to say about the Tory manifesto. They will have exactly the same problems as labour

They will and their manifesto is lacking ideas too. I do think the idea of making child allowance and other benefits based on household income not individual highest earner is good, I think scrapping NIC is good - stick it on normal income tax if needed but be honest about the rates. Most of the rest of it is dull and hardly newsworthy...

I like the reform ideas on NHS - you won't but we have to do something and some of the best health systems in the world have mixed provision.

Someone proposed a minimum wage for care workers above the current nmw, that might be good to improve provision and get people out of hospital quicker.

But by and large most of it is like kids squabbling and I don't see any of it moving the dial much... all too safe and dull.

That better?

[isleaiw1]

 The Earl of Chesterfield, on 16 June 2024 - 08:33 AM, said:

You're better than such victimhood, Rob.

You, like those named (not to mention a certain Jezza Corbs, of course) offered legitimate and measurable reasons to leave. Ones not revolving around perverted patriotism or a race to the bottom in terms of workers', consumer or environmental protections.

Folk still championing those that did, or saying Johnson's 'oven ready deal' isn't the economy hammering failure it's turned out (yeah, who cudda predicted a pathological liar and buffoon would deliver that. Oh, wait...), must explain why for themselves.

Or not, perhaps.

But my current point is about the 'Reform' manifesto. I repeat: how many of those saying they'll vote that way are across their health policy? Their plans to introduce private insurance? The impact of their environmental policy? Allowing those making billions from fossil fuels - or flushing raw sewage into our waters - greater freedoms to do so? Their impact on schools or public services or workers rights...or...or...

Or is it all about immigration. Countless voters who've never met or been effected by an asylum seeker convinced by Farage's racist rhetoric.

This thread offers a golden opportunity to discuss that question...

Services exports are up, goods exports are down, our projected growth rate over the next year or two is higher than most EU countries. Historical data is affected by a pandemic, a war in Europe, a transition period and uncertainty..

Are you really going to claim there is a clear view on the impact of Brexit? Maybe that is why there is no debate as some people are trying to assign a certain result to what is still a bit of an unknown...

And in the scheme of things much less important than the funding crisis that will befall the NHS in the next 5 years... and that isn't because of immigration but because of an ageingnpopulation with a falling birth rate and reduced economic activity...

So I guess the short answer to my debate is as a non leave person, brexit isn't in my list of main concerns now. It's a bit "that happened, so what.." to me.

[fishini]

 isleaiw1, on 16 June 2024 - 10:38 AM, said:

They will and their manifesto is lacking ideas too. I do think the idea of making child allowance and other benefits based on household income not individual highest earner is good, I think scrapping NIC is good - stick it on normal income tax if needed but be honest about the rates. Most of the rest of it is dull and hardly newsworthy...

I like the reform ideas on NHS - you won't but we have to do something and some of the best health systems in the world have mixed provision.

Someone proposed a minimum wage for care workers above the current nmw, that might be good to improve provision and get people out of hospital quicker.

But by and large most of it is like kids squabbling and I don't see any of it moving the dial much... all too safe and dull.

That better?

A little. Do you think labour as whole are being far more scrutinized in the media than the Tories?

[Tylerdurdencfc]

Let's be honest, the only real reason Labour are going to get into power is because of the dislike of the Tories since the pandemic and not because of the policies that they have come up with.

If the Tories hadn't have annoyed people with parties in the pandemic and numerous other untrustworthy acts then we would be seeing another Tory government.

The whole choice is woeful and the general public deserve better. It's the worst offering of political choice ever.

And by the way, if they retained teachers with decent salaries and incentives to stay in the profession then the current number of new teachers required wouldn't need to be addressed. Rather than paying students a tax free ?30k as a bursary to then leave at the end of their training year without any finicial payback, they could use that 30k to keep teachers in the profession. A tax free 5k bonus after 5 years, 10k after 10 years and 15k after 20 years.

[mr. smith]

Tylerdurdencfc, on 16 June 2024 - 01:08 PM, said:

Let's be honest, the only real reason Labour are going to get into power is because of the dislike of the Tories since the pandemic and not because of the policies that they have come up with.

If the Tories hadn't have annoyed people with parties in the pandemic and numerous other untrustworthy acts then we would be seeing another Tory government.

The whole choice is woeful and the general public deserve better. It's the worst offering of political choice ever.

And by the way, if they retained teachers with decent salaries and incentives to stay in the profession then the current number of new teachers required wouldn't need to be addressed. Rather than paying students a tax free ?30k as a bursary to then leave at the end of their training year without any finicial payback, they could use that 30k to keep teachers in the profession. A tax free 5k bonus after 5 years, 10k after 10 years and 15k after 20 years.

the country is on its arse after 14yr of tory government thats why theyll lose.
the covid parties & corruption & lies (untrustworthy acts) are why theyll get wiped out.

[isleaiw1]

 fishini, on 16 June 2024 - 11:32 AM, said:

A little. Do you think labour as whole are being far more scrutinized in the media than the Tories?

Well I have just been reading the Mirror 😮

On mainstream TV, no more than you would expect of the odds on winners..

[isleaiw1]

 Tylerdurdencfc, on 16 June 2024 - 01:08 PM, said:

Let's be honest, the only real reason Labour are going to get into power is because of the dislike of the Tories since the pandemic and not because of the policies that they have come up with.

If the Tories hadn't have annoyed people with parties in the pandemic and numerous other untrustworthy acts then we would be seeing another Tory government.

The whole choice is woeful and the general public deserve better. It's the worst offering of political choice ever.

And by the way, if they retained teachers with decent salaries and incentives to stay in the profession then the current number of new teachers required wouldn't need to be addressed. Rather than paying students a tax free ?30k as a bursary to then leave at the end of their training year without any finicial payback, they could use that 30k to keep teachers in the profession. A tax free 5k bonus after 5 years, 10k after 10 years and 15k after 20 years.

I am a school trustee, their biggest problem is teachers taking early retirement, there is a solution to that..

The other problem is they spend too little time teaching and too much dealing with issues of the day - rewriting curriculums to not promote racism or the white view, deciding how to deal with the transgender issue, dealing with the ever increasing number of SEND students.

Ps allowing them.to leave without reimbursement is madness, and would never be sanctioned in the private sector... I had to repay my training costs if I left too soon after taking exams...

This post has been edited by isleaiw1: Today, 01:46 PM

[isleaiw1]

 mr. smith, on 16 June 2024 - 01:27 PM, said:

the country is on its arse after 14yr of tory government thats why theyll lose.
the covid parties & corruption & lies (untrustworthy acts) are why theyll get wiped out.

But to win Labour are essentially copying the tory approach...

But they deserve wiping out for the lies, parties and BoJo shambles...