[PontePete]

 dtp, on 22 November 2020 - 09:39 AM, said:

I'm constantly told that one of the attributes Tom Denton brings to the team is when he's defending in our penalty area dead ball situations.

Just wondering how many goals have we conceded this season from dead ball situations though.

About a third the amount we would have done if Denton wasn’t back there helping out all the time

[clarevoyant.]

 Stokespireite, on 21 November 2020 - 05:28 PM, said:

I'm starting to thing that an overseas betting syndicate is getting very rich betting on us to concede goals in the last 5 minutes :-(

I've been thinking that for 5/6 years. If only I could find a connection

[dtp]

 boot, on 22 November 2020 - 11:03 AM, said:

You are implying that Denton should be capable of marking every attacker in the penalty area from a dead ball situation ? Stupid !

I'm implying that when he is defending he is part of our defence and should be equally responsible for marking one of the opposition's players. He's also one of our experienced senior professionals and should be capable of opening his mouth like any other senior pro.

In some of the lowlights of goals conceded from dead ball situations he marks nobody

[sophocles]

 boot, on 22 November 2020 - 11:03 AM, said:

You are implying that Denton should be capable of marking every attacker in the penalty area from a dead ball situation ? Stupid !

You know by now what some of our 'fans' are like when they take an instant dislike to a player. No matter what Tom does, some will never give him credit. He scores more goals than nearly every other player in this league (in one of the worst teams), and clears cross after cross from opposition corners and free kicks, and they still run him down. Mind you, I suppose, if he pulled his finger out, he could take our corners as well as heading them in, and he ought to go in goal as well in his spare time.

[clarevoyant.]

 dtp, on 22 November 2020 - 12:18 PM, said:

I'm implying that when he is defending he is part of our defence and should be equally responsible for marking one of the opposition's players. He's also one of our experienced senior professionals and should be capable of opening his mouth like any other senior pro.

In some of the lowlights of goals conceded from dead ball situations he marks nobody

With is height you would think marking someone wasn't his duty, but to go and win the header was.

Didn't a recent opposition manager say recently that they tried to mark Denton to stop him winning the ball. When they were attacking.

[boot]

 dtp, on 22 November 2020 - 12:18 PM, said:

I'm implying that when he is defending he is part of our defence and should be equally responsible for marking one of the opposition's players. He's also one of our experienced senior professionals and should be capable of opening his mouth like any other senior pro.

In some of the lowlights of goals conceded from dead ball situations he marks nobody

He cleared more balls into his own area yesterday than any other player and was continually praised for that by a highly respected ex-player Phil Walker. He actually contributed more defensively than any other player and scored what should have been the winning goal if the other ten and provided half his contribution. MOM according to Phil Walker.He has his limitations as a player but they don't appear to be as great as yours in recognising what he does do as opposed to what he doesn't do. Did you actually watch the game yesterday ?

[Siberian Spireite]

 boot, on 22 November 2020 - 01:04 PM, said:

He cleared more balls into his own area yesterday than any other player and was continually praised for that by a highly respected ex-player Phil Walker. He actually contributed more defensively than any other player and scored what should have been the winning goal if the other ten and provided half his contribution. MOM according to Phil Walker.He has his limitations as a player but they don't appear to be as great as yours in recognising what he does do as opposed to what he doesn't do. Did you actually watch the game yesterday ?

Heading balls into your own penalty area is a bad idea.

[boot]

 Siberian Spireite, on 22 November 2020 - 01:17 PM, said:

Heading balls into your own penalty area is a bad idea.

Entirely agree mate - a bit wound up when I was typing that - he says laughing.

[dtp]

 boot, on 22 November 2020 - 01:04 PM, said:

He cleared more balls into his own area yesterday than any other player and was continually praised for that by a highly respected ex-player Phil Walker. He actually contributed more defensively than any other player and scored what should have been the winning goal if the other ten and provided half his contribution. MOM according to Phil Walker.He has his limitations as a player but they don't appear to be as great as yours in recognising what he does do as opposed to what he doesn't do. Did you actually watch the game yesterday ?

I accept what Denton is and what Denton does but I don't accept that he can be forgiven for those things he doesn't do. And if we want improvement in this team of ours we have to improve on the faults of every single player.

At present, Tom Denton would always be in my match day squad, as I do not see what we have which is any better. But, hasn't that been the problem for a few seasons now in that we have chosen to accept what we've got rather than try and improve on it?

However, the same problems continue and I look at the constants. We constantly leak goals from dead ball situations, fact. Along with others, Denton is a constant in the defence which fails to deal with dead ball situations, fact. Yesterday, Dungworth said Denton lost his man for one of their goals which suggests he is given a man to mark. In other games In which we have conceded from dead ball situations I have noticed Denton stood in space and that's why I queried it. If this problem is to be resolved every player's part has to be analysed and nobody exonerated from blame because more times than not they do ok.

That's a bit like saying we should continue with Smith & Weston because they played better against County even though they were terrible against Altrincham and their partnership has been less than average as a constant part of the team over the last three seasons. I say we should look for and expect better and part of the reason JP is no longer in charge is that he didn't look to improve on what he'd got when last season ended. That's why we are where we are now.

[Westbars Spireite]

 SpireiteFitzy, on 22 November 2020 - 12:00 PM, said:

Let's maybe ease up on the critique of the new GK. He's a young guy who has just been thrown into a garbage side at literally a moments notice. He can't trust his centre backs and from a huge proportion of set pieces he has guys just running in full steam ahead getting free shots on target, it's not the easiest situation for a rookie to be thrown in.

I’ve not seen him but people have pointed out he seems not to try and save the ball. Odd for multiple observers to make the same point.

[azul]

 Westbars Spireite, on 22 November 2020 - 02:21 PM, said:

I’ve not seen him but people have pointed out he seems not to try and save the ball. Odd for multiple observers to make the same point.

Not sure that is completely true but for a giant bloke he has an incredibly short reach

He’s got good ball control so I’d try him at CB and possibly put Evans in goal

And contrary to popular myth he made two saves yesterday, both were parried straight back into play, one was knocked in and the other broke more favourably

And that is a positive review

This post has been edited by azul: 22 November 2020 - 03:36 PM

[60s 70s Spireite]

Goals (nothing else, not even the fouls leading to the free kicks that created their last 2 goals) here

https://www.thenatio...entre/1-6405315

[Waller is my hero]

 60s 70s Spireite, on 22 November 2020 - 04:30 PM, said:

Goals (nothing else, not even the fouls leading to the free kicks that created their last 2 goals) here

https://www.thenatio...entre/1-6405315

Having watched those goals again, it doesn’t take an idiot to see that our central defenders were nowhere to be seen...completely out of position, no desire & flatfooted to deal with any second ball.

[Siberian Spireite]

 60s 70s Spireite, on 22 November 2020 - 04:30 PM, said:

Goals (nothing else, not even the fouls leading to the free kicks that created their last 2 goals) here

https://www.thenatio...entre/1-6405315

Absolutely, tragically, comically poor. The lack of challenge or reaction from both Evans and Maguire for the first goal is amazing, as is Addai’s decision to let the second float past him. Nobody challenged properly for the last goal either.
I could do Maguire’s job, which seems to consist mainly of waving his arms around in frustration, protest or possibly some sort of odd nervous reaction having just let yet another opponent have an easy goal.

[dim view]

 60s 70s Spireite, on 22 November 2020 - 04:30 PM, said:

Goals (nothing else, not even the fouls leading to the free kicks that created their last 2 goals) here

https://www.thenatio...entre/1-6405315

Not easy to decipher, but the first goal is scored by a player who starts at the near post and runs in a semi circle for a free header at the back post. Meanwhile, Evans and Denton are standing close to each other in the centre of the six yard box and are pinned by attackers. Don't know where our other 'big' guys, Maguire and Yarney are.

Second goal, Denton and Evans are again standing together marking a very small area and Denton misdirects his header back into our danger area.
Third goal, the ball is delivered to a place where Denton and Evans arn't.

Seems to me we've only got two big and two half big players, which we will have to live with as this team made a good impression on most people for 90 minutes.

So the tactics were wrong. Should be zonal. Denton near post, Evans middle, Maguire or preferably Hollis far post.

[60s 70s Spireite]

 60s 70s Spireite, on 22 November 2020 - 04:30 PM, said:

Goals (nothing else, not even the fouls leading to the free kicks that created their last 2 goals) here

https://www.thenatio...entre/1-6405315

Maybe me, but for anybody who paid for the live match stream, wasn’t the camera in the East Stand not the West as per the highlights? You need binoculars to watch the highlights.

[60s 70s Spireite]

Fuller highlights, with same camera angle as the original live stream. Apologies to Buchanan, it was Tyler Denton who gave away the final free kick.
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=oZuEQAw8PYE

[hilly81]

 60s 70s Spireite, on 23 November 2020 - 07:10 AM, said:

Fuller highlights, with same camera angle as the original live stream. Apologies to Buchanan, it was Tyler Denton who gave away the final free kick.
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=oZuEQAw8PYE

That was never a freekick to be fair. One thing that stands out from those highlights, Maguire and Evans are so far off the pace. Absolutely woefull.

[dtp]

 dim view, on 22 November 2020 - 06:06 PM, said:

Not easy to decipher, but the first goal is scored by a player who starts at the near post and runs in a semi circle for a free header at the back post. Meanwhile, Evans and Denton are standing close to each other in the centre of the six yard box and are pinned by attackers. Don't know where our other 'big' guys, Maguire and Yarney are.

Second goal, Denton and Evans are again standing together marking a very small area and Denton misdirects his header back into our danger area.
Third goal, the ball is delivered to a place where Denton and Evans arn't.

Seems to me we've only got two big and two half big players, which we will have to live with as this team made a good impression on most people for 90 minutes.

So the tactics were wrong. Should be zonal. Denton near post, Evans middle, Maguire or preferably Hollis far post.

Mmmmm. Thank you for that analysis.

Quite clear, to me then, as there's a choice between laying the blame at either Denton's or Evans's feet (or should that be head) the choice unanimously is those of Evans.

And, I've not yet seen it yet!!!!

This post has been edited by dtp: 23 November 2020 - 09:27 AM

[dim view]

 60s 70s Spireite, on 23 November 2020 - 07:10 AM, said:

Fuller highlights, with same camera angle as the original live stream. Apologies to Buchanan, it was Tyler Denton who gave away the final free kick.
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=oZuEQAw8PYE

Ta. Heartbreaking.
Well, if the general style of play is accurately reflected in the highlights then there's light at the end of the tunnel and perhaps the visceral clamour for change is not what's needed.
Churlish to mention it perhaps, but that comment excludes Maguire who looked like a fish out of water on all the defensive highlights. He's a CH and yet on one of the goals conceded he's standing on the goal line effectively doing nowt except impede his own goalie. Also, Yarney is a big unit but handles himself like a midget.
Opponents will devise set pieces that pin Denton and Evans out of the game and get runners to attack the ball. The freedom they found was startling.

Weston looked like a proper midfielder.
Whether or not to reinstate Letheran is a huge decision.