[Mr Mercury]

Not usually a massive F1 fan but this race is utterly engrossing.

[Johnnyspireite7]

You should see all the Max fans crying on Facebook!

[Mr Mercury]

Johnnyspireite7, on 12 December 2021 - 02:05 PM, said:

You should see all the Max fans crying on Facebook!

Not anymore!
Seems really unfair on Hamilton the changing of the decision for overtaking. Wow

[Johnnyspireite7]

Mr Mercury, on 12 December 2021 - 02:36 PM, said:

Not anymore!
Seems really unfair on Hamilton the changing of the decision for overtaking. Wow

That decision smacks of Helmut Marko standing over Michael Massi.....

[Mr Mercury]

Johnnyspireite7, on 12 December 2021 - 03:31 PM, said:

That decision smacks of Helmut Marko standing over Michael Massi.....

It would seem the rules have been broken by the race director, ie either no lapped cars overtake or they all do. If none could overtake then Verstappen would have had to overtake 5 cars on the last lap before getting to Lewis in effect too much of an ask, or all the lapped cars, not just the ones in between Verstappen and Hamilton, should be allowed to overtake thus taking the safety car onto the last lap therefore making the last lap a non overtaking lap meaning Lewis could cruise to the win.
Also when lapped cars have overtaken there as to be a further lap before racing resumes, thus ending the race before overtaking could take place.
But can the race director over rule the rules?
Anyway I think that’s what it’s all about!
Seemingly Mercedes have been done but it’s the FIA who’ve effed up not Verstappen so how do you sort it out?

This post has been edited by Mr Mercury: 12 December 2021 - 04:01 PM

[Mr Mercury]

Mercedes also contesting now that Verstappen, for a split second, went in front of Hamilton while the safety car was on the track, which counts as overtaking and asking for a 5 second penalty which would relegate him to second place.
Talk about drama.

[Markham94Cfc]

A lot of sour grapes and inconsistencies throughout the season, but it can not be argued it’s been very exciting. Think the result just needs to be accepted

[Mr Mercury]

Markham94Cfc, on 12 December 2021 - 05:25 PM, said:

A lot of sour grapes and inconsistencies throughout the season, but it can not be argued it’s been very exciting. Think the result just needs to be accepted

Not watched a lot of F1 for years, thinking it had become just a procession but that was electric.

[JonB]

So it seems the FIA have investigated themselves and decided that the rule saying the race director can do what he wants overrules all the other rules and they’ve covered their own backsides.

[Siberian Spireite]

Grew up watching F1 in an era where it was great (Mansell, Piquet, Prost, Senna etc), lost interest when Schumacher turned it into a boring procession by fair means or foul, got back into it when Hamilton shook things up...... but came to realise that it's a sport with no morals where dictators can turf out farmers to build tracks too narrow to overtake, and F1 will race wherever makes the the most cash, regardless of what the regime inviting them does. Environmentally, it's a disaster.
Still, the title race this season did draw me back in - I had loved Hamilton but wanted to see Verstappen win the title as I love the gutsy, fearless way he races. Incredible drama today- the outcome of the race was decided by the race director when he was forced to make a call one way or the other, under intense pressure from both sides. I suppose maximum drama was in the best interests of F1 and its ability to generate viewers, interest and cash, so that's the way it went. Well done Max and great to see Lewis react magnanimously, even if his team principal did not.

[CFC91]

It was a bit of a shambles but can't deny it wasn't exciting. Hamilton had got his rub of the green with the rules a few times this season, including earlier on in the race where he cut the corner to stay ahead of Max so you could argue that Max deserved a bit of luck. Red Bull gambled with the 3 stops to keep Max on fresh tyres, on another day it backfires and Lewis wins but it paid off. I was suprised they didn't match Red Bull and bring Hamilton in so they were both on fresh tyres to try and stop the exact scenario playing out as it did.

I quite like Totto Wolff but some of his radio comms to the FIA encouraging them to break the rules and keep the lapped cars behind the safety car were embarrassing, I know it was desperation to win but the rules do dictate they let the unlapped cars through. Imagine the damp squib if after the season we had it was all decided behind the safety car, no way they were going to allow that to happen as well.

[JonB]

CFC91, on 13 December 2021 - 09:13 AM, said:

It was a bit of a shambles but can't deny it wasn't exciting. Hamilton had got his rub of the green with the rules a few times this season, including earlier on in the race where he cut the corner to stay ahead of Max so you could argue that Max deserved a bit of luck. Red Bull gambled with the 3 stops to keep Max on fresh tyres, on another day it backfires and Lewis wins but it paid off. I was suprised they didn't match Red Bull and bring Hamilton in so they were both on fresh tyres to try and stop the exact scenario playing out as it did.

I quite like Totto Wolff but some of his radio comms to the FIA encouraging them to break the rules and keep the lapped cars behind the safety car were embarrassing, I know it was desperation to win but the rules do dictate they let the unlapped cars through. Imagine the damp squib if after the season we had it was all decided behind the safety car, no way they were going to allow that to happen as well.

I think part of the one letting Hamilton stay out in front was because Verstappen pretty much forced him to go there otherwise it would have been a crash as Verstappen made another massive late lunge up the inside with no way of really making the corner without forcing Hamilton to avoid a collision, the last overtake was similar and Hamilton had to avoid another collision. There have been a few similar in the last few races as well almost as if Verstappen was panicking and had to try anything to get past.

The rules do say they let lapped cars through but they didnt do it properly, they only let the ones that were between Hamilton and Verstappen through to try and engineer a finish which effectively gifted Verstappen 12 seconds back. Had they done it properly and let all the lapped cars through then there wasnt time to get a full lap of racing in and Hamilton would have won. They didnt want to see it end under a safety car even though it was what should have happened because it wouldnt have looked good on TV or on their netflix series. Manufacturing a result and then hiding behind the race director can do what he wants wasnt the right thing to do either.

[hilly81]

I'm no F1 fan so don't have a horse in the race in Hamilton v Verstappen but the way that safety car restart was handled was an absolute mess and a complete stich up. The sport loses any credibility it has left if it just makes the rules up as it goes along just to generate some last lap excitement. An absolute shambles.

[JonB]

hilly81, on 13 December 2021 - 09:52 AM, said:

I'm no F1 fan so don't have a horse in the race in Hamilton v Verstappen but the way that safety car restart was handled was an absolute mess and a complete stich up. The sport loses any credibility it has left if it just makes the rules up as it goes along just to generate some last lap excitement. An absolute shambles.

I think it looks worse in that a sport that has so many rules to govern it, and probably needs them due to the nature of the sport off and on track, just ignores a chunk of them at the most vital point and just says its fine because there is one rule that says the folk in charge can just ignore them all and do what they want to engineer a finish that they want.

[Tylerdurdencfc]

Only just seen this, what I can't understand is that they let the 5 cars between Hamilton and Max through but kept the one inbetween Max and Leclerc and the one between him and Bottas. This surely denies Leclerc and Bottas from finishing any higher. It also means the Max wasn't under any pressure from Leclerc at the restart.

If you are going to let them race you let them all race and not just two participants. Imagine if all the cars had gone through and Leclerc had been tight up behind the other two on the straight as well.

I also think you would have legal grounds to make a claim if you had a bet on who had won. Imagine you were due a huge windfall if Hamilton had won. I would argue that on the grounds that the rules were not fully followed correctly that are written down at the start of the season you would have a case against the race director.

It aching to match fixing and engineering a result for tv viewing.

[JonB]

Tylerdurdencfc, on 17 December 2021 - 02:22 PM, said:

Only just seen this, what I can't understand is that they let the 5 cars between Hamilton and Max through but kept the one inbetween Max and Leclerc and the one between him and Bottas. This surely denies Leclerc and Bottas from finishing any higher. It also means the Max wasn't under any pressure from Leclerc at the restart.

If you are going to let them race you let them all race and not just two participants. Imagine if all the cars had gone through and Leclerc had been tight up behind the other two on the straight as well.

What i heard was that had they let them all through, as they should, due to the distance needed to make up there wouldnt have been time to get the safety car out of the way and have the last lap of racing or something like that. For the others to go through would have meant another lap under the safety car which would have been the last lap of the race. Hence they let through the ones between Hamilton and Verstappen, got the safety car out of the way and engineered a finish even though the rules werent followed.

The rules say everyone unlaps themselves or nobody. Both those options meant it was difficult to engineer the one lap shootout where Hamilton was a sitting duck so they let a few through and then hid behind a rule that says no matter what other rules say the race director can do what he wants.

Mercedes have dropped the appeal so Verstappen is confirmed but there is a whole heap of pressure on the FIA now who have apparently agreed in return to investigate and overhaul how it came to happen. Its quite telling that pretty much all the other drivers on the grid say what happened wasnt right.