[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dtp, on 06 June 2020 - 08:53 AM, said:

Baby steps, I know, but several questions to be answered before moving into further detail.

But as he says, the NL have to decide whether or not the new season will start in August as currently planned. If it does start then do Clubs agree that matches might have to be played behind closed doors? Do Clubs want the new season to start with spectators? If it doesn't start in August what should be the targeted start date?

Haythornthwaite is suggesting starting in January but, as the Government's furlough scheme is set to be slowly wound down and finished by 31st October, I would have thought that a number of Clubs will struggle to survive that long so, possibly, 1st November might become a new targeted start date.

So you're saying folks' safety might be secondary to clubs shutting down?

Seriously?

Dave, come on, we all love our football but let's keep things in perspective. My wife's just lost her job 'cos of Covid, yet I still say let 'em fold for the greater good.

By the way, with 'R' rates rising above '1' in some areas it raises the question of teams from there playing at all.

[dtp]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 06 June 2020 - 10:25 AM, said:

So you're saying folks' safety might be secondary to clubs shutting down?

Seriously?

Dave, come on, we all love our football but let's keep things in perspective. My wife's just lost her job 'cos of Covid, yet I still say let 'em fold for the greater good.

By the way, with 'R' rates rising above '1' in some areas it raises the question of teams from there playing at all.

[dtp]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 06 June 2020 - 10:25 AM, said:

So you're saying folks' safety might be secondary to clubs shutting down?

Seriously?

Dave, come on, we all love our football but let's keep things in perspective. My wife's just lost her job 'cos of Covid, yet I still say let 'em fold for the greater good.

By the way, with 'R' rates rising above '1' in some areas it raises the question of teams from there playing at all.

No, I didn't say that at all.

I was saying the new season is scheduled to start in August and I was agreeing with David Haythornthwaite that the NL and it's member Clubs need to be making decisions as to whether or not they wish to still do this and if they so are they prepared to play behind closed doors. The current start date is about 2 months away and imho that is too soon. As such, consultations need to be entered into to determine what Clubs want to do. Whilst I made a suggestion of a new target date in November, with reasons, this would not be etched in stone and should be a moveable target just like the August date currently set should be.

Are you suggesting they do nowt so that the August start date stands and Clubs have to prepare for it, thus stretching their budgets further, only be told at the last minute that it isn't going to happen then anyway?

[clarevoyant.]

We're forgetting one thing here, a majority of players are part time (as was mentioned on numerous occasions following defeat to them last season)and have other full time employment, which is also the case with the match officials.

The PL and EFL are demanding that to be part of the 100 or so allowed into the ground they require a "passport" showing a clear covivid test etc. How does Jonny at right back do this when working in a take away the previous night or Fred the physio having spent the previous week massaging government statistics?

Maybe none league don't have to follow the same precautions as their upper echelon peers!!

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dtp, on 06 June 2020 - 10:53 AM, said:

No, I didn't say that at all.

I was saying the new season is scheduled to start in August and I was agreeing with David Haythornthwaite that the NL and it's member Clubs need to be making decisions as to whether or not they wish to still do this and if they so are they prepared to play behind closed doors. The current start date is about 2 months away and imho that is too soon. As such, consultations need to be entered into to determine what Clubs want to do. Whilst I made a suggestion of a new target date in November, with reasons, this would not be etched in stone and should be a moveable target just like the August date currently set should be.

Are you suggesting they do nowt so that the August start date stands and Clubs have to prepare for it, thus stretching their budgets further, only be told at the last minute that it isn't going to happen then anyway?

You said: 'Haythornthwaite is suggesting starting in January but, as the Government's furlough scheme is set to be slowly wound down and finished by 31st October, I would have thought that a number of Clubs will struggle to survive that long so, possibly, 1st November might become a new targeted start date.'

Clearly suggesting clubs going t*ts-up is a factor.

And it isn't me quoting an utterly absurd August start-up, either.

Infact I'm struggling to understand why some are torturing themselves with increasingly convoluted ideas of returning to their seats at all. Of course outfits and officials should discuss options, but with 'R' rates rising again and hundreds still dying daily it's like discussing if it'll snow on Xmas day or not.

You used the term 'baby steps'. I agree. But let's not try to get that 'baby' running' before it can even stand...

[dim view]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 06 June 2020 - 11:27 AM, said:

Of course outfits and officials should discuss options....

....I'm trying to think of a fit and proper person to represent CFC in talks. Can you think of one?

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dim view, on 06 June 2020 - 11:36 AM, said:

....I'm trying to think of a fit and proper person to represent CFC in talks. Can you think of one?

Jim Brown.

[dtp]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 06 June 2020 - 11:27 AM, said:

You said: 'Haythornthwaite is suggesting starting in January but, as the Government's furlough scheme is set to be slowly wound down and finished by 31st October, I would have thought that a number of Clubs will struggle to survive that long so, possibly, 1st November might become a new targeted start date.'

Clearly suggesting clubs going t*ts-up is a factor.

And it isn't me quoting an utterly absurd August start-up, either.

Infact I'm struggling to understand why some are torturing themselves with increasingly convoluted ideas of returning to their seats at all. Of course outfits and officials should discuss options, but with 'R' rates rising again and hundreds still dying daily it's like discussing if it'll snow on Xmas day or not.

You used the term 'baby steps'. I agree. But let's not try to get that 'baby' running' before it can even stand...

Even the expert scientists can't agree on the level of the R rate other than it is higher in the South and North West. The WHO has just changed it's mind about the wearing of masks. Similarly, different countries are following expert scientific advice by adapting different self distancing rules. So, I'd hate to be the one who has got to make decisions based on differing views.

Yes, you are right about what I said, but we seem to both accept August is out of the question so the NL and it's member Clubs need to make that decision in the appropriate way very soon so that everyone knows what to do. They don't need to be signing players and return to pre-season training very soon like they would be doing if August remains the date. Then they will need to come up with a new suggested date and November, to me seems relatively sensible as a half way point between August and January. Obviously, a close eye will have to be kept on the situation and if the new target date becomes questionable a further process woulld be necessary to determine another date. The baby doesn't have to run yet but the parents have to monitor the situation with a view to determining what's feasible and when.

[Spitfire]

howardb, on 02 June 2020 - 02:03 PM, said:

Who knows when the season will start but I really believe the National League should be actively talking to the FA about our season starting with fans

We could almost be the guinea pig for how football can emerge from this mess

Sent this note to their Twitter messaging:
]b]Just wondered if The National League were in discussions for the start of the season with fans in attendance. At many clubs attendances were such that social distancing could work (ten clubs averaged under 1500) especially if it was suggested that away fans didn't travel for the first few months to see how it worked. All four sides (OK three in some cases) could be used by home fans, family (one household) allowed to sit or stand together and I would suggest most clubs could easily manage their average home crowds (minus away fans).

The great spin-off is that the National League could become the only League with fans initially which would appeal to TV and to other local football fans that normally support the bigger clubs. Tickets would be restricted to a set capacity and be in demand. A great opportunity and I would, suggest, if you aren't talking about this now, You should be ![/b][/b]
[[b

Some controversial stuff there, notably the suggestion re away fans but in the current situation it's an olive branch to enable all parts of the stadium to be used. We should be able to fit in 3-4,000 easily

Thoughts welcome

Not a bad idea tbf,baby steps an all.i know some will say it will not work,but you have to start somewhere.

[dim view]

dtp, on 06 June 2020 - 12:50 PM, said:

Even the expert scientists can't agree on the level of the R rate other than it is higher in the South and North West. The WHO has just changed it's mind about the wearing of masks. Similarly, different countries are following expert scientific advice by adapting different self distancing rules. So, I'd hate to be the one who has got to make decisions based on differing views.

Yes, you are right about what I said, but we seem to both accept August is out of the question so the NL and it's member Clubs need to make that decision in the appropriate way very soon so that everyone knows what to do. They don't need to be signing players and return to pre-season training very soon like they would be doing if August remains the date. Then they will need to come up with a new suggested date and November, to me seems relatively sensible as a half way point between August and January. Obviously, a close eye will have to be kept on the situation and if the new target date becomes questionable a further process woulld be necessary to determine another date. The baby doesn't have to run yet but the parents have to monitor the situation with a view to determining what's feasible and when.

So, if you were the one making policy and decisions at CFC, what would you be doing now?

So many unknowns that you'd be doing nowt much more than filling in a worst case scenario spreadsheet I would suggest, and that would make very sorry reading.

End of furlough looks like a firm date for the spreadsheet. 173 non players and 10 players who can't be made redundant to pay or terminate.
Spire Lotto needs a total revamp.
Major infrastructure costs to incur.

No income streams operating and no indications from football policy makers or Government that facilitate planning. Only C & B holds a ray of hope. Unlike most NL clubs, we might be able to generate some income from July as we have a great product and ample space for social distancing.

Are sponsors willing to cough up when there's no footie?
Going forward, do we get any payments at all from the football authorities?

No cash reserves.

It's a very grim picture in my opinion. The spreadsheet needs a key milestone line which indicates when income streams might return. Over to you......

[dtp]

dim view, on 07 June 2020 - 08:32 AM, said:

So, if you were the one making policy and decisions at CFC, what would you be doing now?

So many unknowns that you'd be doing nowt much more than filling in a worst case scenario spreadsheet I would suggest, and that would make very sorry reading.

End of furlough looks like a firm date for the spreadsheet. 173 non players and 10 players who can't be made redundant to pay or terminate.
Spire Lotto needs a total revamp.
Major infrastructure costs to incur.

No income streams operating and no indications from football policy makers or Government that facilitate planning. Only C & B holds a ray of hope. Unlike most NL clubs, we might be able to generate some income from July as we have a great product and ample space for social distancing.

Are sponsors willing to cough up when there's no footie?
Going forward, do we get any payments at all from the football authorities?

No cash reserves.

It's a very grim picture in my opinion. The spreadsheet needs a key milestone line which indicates when income streams might return. Over to you......

Difficult one, isn't it?

The obvious issue to me at present is to be communicating with the NL and it's member Clubs regarding postponing the start of the season. Early August is the current date for the start of the season but I don't think it is feasible with attendances nor do I think it is feasible without attendances. Equally, if the season is to start in August which is only 8 or 9 weeks away plans for pre-season training and squad building need to be put in place very soon. Clearly decisions need to be taken very soon now as to whether or not the Season is to start on time or be delayed.

Once the very necessary decision has been confirmed about delaying the start of the season a number of matters can remain on the back-burner whilst attention is given to any Income streams which are allowed and are possible to run at a profit.

As you say, not a pretty picture for the spreadsheet but there are possibly two key milestones. One when decisions have to be taken regarding all staff currently furloughed and the other is when it might be feasible to start the new season. Hence, my suggested targeted new season start date being in November.

Bear in mind the issue will be further complicated if play-offs for the current season are to take place between NL Clubs not yet returned to training but having issued retained lists which might leave them with much reduced squads. And, of course, in our case will we have new owners in the Trust, other new owners, or DA all of whom might have different agendas and financial capabilities.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dtp, on 07 June 2020 - 11:01 AM, said:

Difficult one, isn't it?

The obvious issue to me at present is to be communicating with the NL and it's member Clubs regarding postponing the start of the season. Early August is the current date for the start of the season but I don't think it is feasible with attendances nor do I think it is feasible without attendances. Equally, if the season is to start in August which is only 8 or 9 weeks away plans for pre-season training and squad building need to be put in place very soon. Clearly decisions need to be taken very soon now as to whether or not the Season is to start on time or be delayed.

Once the very necessary decision has been confirmed about delaying the start of the season a number of matters can remain on the back-burner whilst attention is given to any Income streams which are allowed and are possible to run at a profit.

As you say, not a pretty picture for the spreadsheet but there are possibly two key milestones. One when decisions have to be taken regarding all staff currently furloughed and the other is when it might be feasible to start the new season. Hence, my suggested targeted new season start date being in November.

Bear in mind the issue will be further complicated if play-offs for the current season are to take place between NL Clubs not yet returned to training but having issued retained lists which might leave them with much reduced squads. And, of course, in our case will we have new owners in the Trust, other new owners, or DA all of whom might have different agendas and financial capabilities.

So very much like the government's paper on BAME Covid numbers, Dave.

Stating what we know but no specific answers. Other than talking to other clubs, of course. Which is surely happening anyway...

..in't it?

Our friend 'Dim' does at least offer a glimpse of light, mind - the non matchday stuff. Looks like Bozo's bunch are slowly and cautiously/rushing into (delete depending on opinion) opening up hospitality. So maybe, just perhaps, there'll be a few bob made at the bars. Meaning a few staff might keep their jobs.

The football side, though? Dunno if anyone can clarify exactly how contracted players stand, but it seems the owner - whoever that might be - has a simple choice. Keep paying 'em or pay 'em off. Essentially mothballing the entire club until, well, whenever.

My guess is the entire industry is facing the same choice which could, quite possibly, lead to a total re-vamp of the whole structure below the Championship. Many will fold and many will start again.

We can't even begin to predict how or when that's gonna happen - but either way it's exactly the kinda thing that keeps forums like this buzzing!

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 07 June 2020 - 12:01 PM

[Benno Spire]

You can’t start planning for next season until they close this season down and given many uncertainties it’s pretty difficult to even choose a date for starting next season.When it does start it might be an idea to cancel all cup competitions and just focus on completing a league season in a shorter time frame.I agree it must be nigh on impossible planning cash flow forecasts at the moment with so many unknowns.

[dtp]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 07 June 2020 - 11:58 AM, said:

So very much like the government's paper on BAME Covid numbers, Dave.

Stating what we know but no specific answers. Other than talking to other clubs, of course. Which is surely happening anyway...

..in't it?

Our friend 'Dim' does at least offer a glimpse of light, mind - the non matchday stuff. Looks like Bozo's bunch are slowly and cautiously/rushing into (delete depending on opinion) opening up hospitality. So maybe, just perhaps, there'll be a few bob made at the bars. Meaning a few staff might keep their jobs.

The football side, though? Dunno if anyone can clarify exactly how contracted players stand, but it seems the owner - whoever that might be - has a simple choice. Keep paying 'em or pay 'em off. Essentially mothballing the entire club until, well, whenever.

My guess is the entire industry is facing the same choice which could, quite possibly, lead to a total re-vamp of the whole structure below the Championship. Many will fold and many will start again.

We can't even begin to predict how or when that's gonna happen - but either way it's exactly the kinda thing that keeps forums like this buzzing!

I agree I am generalising whilst trying to sum up the present situation, Chris, but I don't have a crystal ball at my disposal as my normal supplier is classed as being non-essential.

However, the Fylde owner seems to be suggesting the NL needs to get a move on, even our own AC has suggested little info has come out from the NL, we have clubs like Notts County naming a 24 man play-off squad when some play-off competitors might struggle to raise a match day squad and that's if there is going to be any play-offs at all. So, whatever talking is being done it needs to be ramped up so that clubs know exactly what's what.

A restructuring of at least L2 and the NL is a logical move I agree Chris but I do not necessarily see this happening whilst both the EFL and the NL are still in limbo regarding promotions and relegations and August still remains as the start date for the new season.

[Benno Spire]

I would imagine as furlough payments start to end that will be the beginning of the end for many clubs with no income or wealthy benefactor and there is a real risk of any league placings being based on the last clubs standing.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Benno Spire, on 07 June 2020 - 02:21 PM, said:

I would imagine as furlough payments start to end that will be the beginning of the end for many clubs with no income or wealthy benefactor and there is a real risk of any league placings being based on the last clubs standing.

Interesting that the extra £750,000 (ish) subsidies quoted by Carson is rumoured to be what the Trust were paying.

Meaning anything Allen would've made - though more rumours suggest it would've gone straight to addressing former directors' debentures - has now gone.

Seems to me the current owner might as well gift CFC - infact I wouldn't be surprised if that's essentially the case.

[eg-zile]

Benno Spire, on 07 June 2020 - 02:21 PM, said:

I would imagine as furlough payments start to end that will be the beginning of the end for many clubs with no income or wealthy benefactor and there is a real risk of any league placings being based on the last clubs standing.

I see it pretty much the same way.

However: "there is a real risk of any league placings being based on the last clubs standing"
I dunno .... possibly

Alternately, with the amount of EFL clubs at risk ... any survivors from the lower EFL, and National leagues could find themselves shuffling UP, not DOWN.

[Spire-Power]

eg-zile, on 07 June 2020 - 05:00 PM, said:

I see it pretty much the same way.

However: "there is a real risk of any league placings being based on the last clubs standing"
I dunno .... possibly

Alternately, with the amount of EFL clubs at risk ... any survivors from the lower EFL, and National leagues could find themselves shuffling UP, not DOWN.

Believe it when I see it

[dim view]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 07 June 2020 - 11:58 AM, said:

Essentially mothballing the entire club until, well, whenever.

My guess is the entire industry is facing the same choice which could, quite possibly, lead to a total re-vamp of the whole structure below the Championship. Many will fold and many will start again.

We can't even begin to predict how or when that's gonna happen - but either way it's exactly the kinda thing that keeps forums like this buzzing!

indeed. The cost of 'mothballing' CFC should have been calculated by Carson as it could be a very important number, as alluded to by him in his note to Moondog on the other thread.

CFC C & B might just provide sufficient profits to pay for skeleton staff and cover stadium upkeep costs - unlike many other clubs at our level and even above.

[johnd51]

No more positive tests in town today again. None for a week now.
Please open pubs and restaurants.
National League to start with fans as normal 2 weeks after FA Cup Final.