[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Ever since it's formation the tories and their propaganda peddlers in the media have accused the Labour movement of links to Russia.

However what we're currently witnessing is a tory party essentially in hock to Kremlin cronies. Refusing to return rubles. Refusing to sanction all but a tiny handful of oligarchs already sanctioned by the US. Refusing to join the EU in widespread financial penalties.

And led by a man who celebrated his election victory at the residence of the son of a 'former' KGB agent.

Leaving the leader of the Labour party, supported by many tory MP's, cutting a far more patriotic figure in Parliament.

What have people voted for...

[Mr Mercury]

I was wondering how long it’d be before this was the Tories and Boris’ fault. Tbh I thought it would have been quicker!

[azul]

Mr Mercury, on 23 February 2022 - 10:55 AM, said:

I was wondering how long it’d be before this was the Tories and Boris’ fault. Tbh I thought it would have been quicker!

So were you impressed with the sanctions levied against Russia especially as he has been so vocal. Given your obsession with Putin I’d have though you would be gutted

[azul]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 23 February 2022 - 10:33 AM, said:

Ever since it's formation the tories and their propaganda peddlers in the media have accused the Labour movement of links to Russia.

However what we're currently witnessing is a tory party essentially in hock to Kremlin cronies. Refusing to return rubles. Refusing to sanction all but a tiny handful of oligarchs already sanctioned by the US. Refusing to join the EU in widespread financial penalties.

And led by a man who celebrated his election victory at the residence of the son of a 'former' KGB agent.

Leaving the leader of the Labour party, supported by many tory MP's, cutting a far more patriotic figure in Parliament.

What have people voted for...

I can see why Bozo has been so cautious. He must be concerned Putin’s cronies will gut off his party’s blood supply

[Siberian Spireite]

Anyhow, away from NI and domestic UK politics, meanwhile in Russia, Navalny has made some very interesting tweets:
https://mobile.twitt...098720076767236
Not sure how he has managed to put this out from behind bars in Russia, but a lot of it seems sensible to me.

[Mr Mercury]

azul, on 23 February 2022 - 11:03 AM, said:

So were you impressed with the sanctions levied against Russia especially as he has been so vocal. Given your obsession with Putin I’d have though you would be gutted

Keep your power dry.

[Bobby Darling]

Wooden Spoon, on 22 February 2022 - 09:13 PM, said:

If you really believe that N.I and putins aggression against Ukraine are comparable you need help

Depends how long you consider history to be? You’ve compared Putin to Hitler. So 80 years. If you want to slice history as 500 years then the English invasion of Ireland was pretty similar to Putin and Ukraine in terms of intent, methods and delivery. We implanted English and Scottish settlers to maintain control after a military conquest. Doesn’t in any way justify Putin but provides a comparable example. That blueprint exported worldwide obviously went far beyond even the biggest of Putin’s ambitions. He needs to be stopped no doubt but don’t deny our past.

[Mr Mercury]

Siberian Spireite, on 23 February 2022 - 11:09 AM, said:

Anyhow, away from NI and domestic UK politics, meanwhile in Russia, Navalny has made some very interesting tweets:
https://mobile.twitt...098720076767236
Not sure how he has managed to put this out from behind bars in Russia, but a lot of it seems sensible to me.

Not a deal of blame on the west there is there!
But why listen to the chap who’s in jail in Russia when it’s easier to blame Boris!

[Mr Mercury]

Bobby Darling, on 23 February 2022 - 01:07 PM, said:

Depends how long you consider history to be? You’ve compared Putin to Hitler. So 80 years. If you want to slice history as 500 years then the English invasion of Ireland was pretty similar to Putin and Ukraine in terms of intent, methods and delivery. We implanted English and Scottish settlers to maintain control after a military conquest. Doesn’t in any way justify Putin but provides a comparable example. That blueprint exported worldwide obviously went far beyond even the biggest of Putin’s ambitions. He needs to be stopped no doubt but don’t deny our past.

All of which ignores the supposed civilisation of peoples and cultures.
I don’t think anyone wishes to deny our past, unless they want it airbrushed from history of course but comparing now to even 80 years ago let alone hundreds of years ago is unbalanced

[turrhall]

Mr Mercury, on 23 February 2022 - 01:41 PM, said:

All of which ignores the supposed civilisation of peoples and cultures.
I don’t think anyone wishes to deny our past, unless they want it airbrushed from history of course but comparing now to even 80 years ago let alone hundreds of years ago is unbalanced

If we are assuming that Putin's ultimate aim is to fully take back control of Ukraine, and he is successful in doing so, what is he then going to do with Ukraine, in your opinion?

[Bobby Darling]

Mr Mercury, on 23 February 2022 - 01:41 PM, said:

All of which ignores the supposed civilisation of peoples and cultures.
I don’t think anyone wishes to deny our past, unless they want it airbrushed from history of course but comparing now to even 80 years ago let alone hundreds of years ago is unbalanced

I can’t go there on the supposed civilisation of peoples and cultures. We would end up arguing and I’m off to drinking and football. I certainly don’t want any of the past airbrushing from history. History is pointless as an academic subject if we don’t try to learn from the past even if there are different interpretations of it. I’d argue that the history of Europe from 1914 onwards is especially relevant now to understand contemporary European events.

[Mr Mercury]

turrhall, on 23 February 2022 - 01:48 PM, said:

If we are assuming that Putin's ultimate aim is to fully take back control of Ukraine, and he is successful in doing so, what is he then going to do with Ukraine, in your opinion?

I have absolutely no idea other than reintegrate it into Russia, and judging by the reaction of the Ukraine people that’s something they are prepared to fight to the death to prevent.

[turrhall]

Mr Mercury, on 23 February 2022 - 03:41 PM, said:

I have absolutely no idea other than reintegrate it into Russia, and judging by the reaction of the Ukraine people that’s something they are prepared to fight to the death to prevent.

Wow sounds quite like you reckon he'd occupy Ukraine and absorb it's state apparatus into Russia - not comparable to the situation in NI and UK at all though, of course because... both things didn't happen on the same day or something.

This post has been edited by turrhall: 23 February 2022 - 04:35 PM

[Mr Mercury]

turrhall, on 23 February 2022 - 04:23 PM, said:

Wow sounds quite like you reckon he'd occupy Ukraine and absorb it's state apparatus into Russia - not comparable to the situation in NI and UK at all though, of course because... both things didn't happen on the same day or something.

Do you think that’s comparable to Russia and the Ukraine?

[turrhall]

I personally do, yes, as it almost certainly is in many other cases of imperial power vs smaller neighbour too - but again my original point was not just that, it's that it is hypocritical of Britain to back Ukraine on the basis that trying to land grab other countries' territory is bad when it does it itself, historically and currently.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Mr Mercury, on 23 February 2022 - 10:55 AM, said:

I was wondering how long it’d be before this was the Tories and Boris’ fault. Tbh I thought it would have been quicker!

That's a crass over simplification you're much better than, pal.

Of course it's not Johnson's fault - I made that abundantly clear in my earlier post. However as a patriot you simply can't ignore the tories' undeniable links to Russian money. Bozo's undeniable association with Kremlin cronies. London's undeniable role as a laundromat for rubles. The government's undeniable reluctance to impose anything even approaching serious sanctions.

Criticised by even tory MP's themselves. Not to mention our US allies.

Infact watching today's PMQ's the squirming ex Etonian reminded me of the senator in 'Godfather 2', who realising he was overseeing a trial of mafia members that had him in their pocket gave what might be deemed a Churchillian speech...before ducking out as fast as he could...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 23 February 2022 - 06:05 PM

[Wooden Spoon]

Siberian Spireite, on 23 February 2022 - 11:09 AM, said:

Anyhow, away from NI and domestic UK politics, meanwhile in Russia, Navalny has made some very interesting tweets:
https://mobile.twitt...098720076767236
Not sure how he has managed to put this out from behind bars in Russia, but a lot of it seems sensible to me.

Can’t argue with any of that.



Gangsters who’ve stolen a countries wealth….and now want more and care nothing for the lives it would cost

[Wooden Spoon]

Mr Mercury, on 23 February 2022 - 10:55 AM, said:

I was wondering how long it’d be before this was the Tories and Boris’ fault. Tbh I thought it would have been quicker!

To be fair there has been a flow of money from Russia to London. Some £1,600,000,000 in London property alone is held by Russians

[Wooden Spoon]

turrhall, on 23 February 2022 - 05:19 PM, said:

I personally do, yes, as it almost certainly is in many other cases of imperial power vs smaller neighbour too - but again my original point was not just that, it's that it is hypocritical of Britain to back Ukraine on the basis that trying to land grab other countries' territory is bad when it does it itself, historically and currently.

[Wooden Spoon]

It’s interesting that Ukraine is no longer referred to as “the Ukraine”…….even in Ukraine itself this is significant - it’s a small change in language but like we might say down south, or the south we’re talking about a region of our own country.


Putin still sees it as a soviet territory - the Ukraine. Ukrainians see them selves as Ukrainians - his error might be that he’s underestimated this identity and would Russians at home be happy seeing the Russian military killing Ukrainian militiamen in jeans t shirt carrying shotguns?


He probably won’t give two f@#$¥ but his population might