[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Been saying for years that if the Russki's, Chinese, North Koreans or some leftist South American state did what Israel do the cacophony of condemnation would be deafening.

And yet?

The Palestinians are disorganised and lightly armed rebels compared to the Israeli state. So like any David v Goliath (and yeah, I get the irony...) they've little choice but to resort to terrorism.

Or another man's freedom fighting, to slightly misquote the old adage.

The Isreali's don't want rockets landing in their back yards?

Well here's an idea - stop bulldozing centuries old communities to build Jewish settlements, storming mosques - especially during Ramadan and oppressing Arabs in their back yards...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 13 May 2021 - 04:51 PM

[Wooden Spoon]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 13 May 2021 - 04:48 PM, said:

Been saying for years that if the Russki's, Chinese, North Koreans or some leftist South American state did what Israel do the cacophony of condemnation would be deafening.

And yet?

The Palestinians are disorganised and lightly armed rebels compared to the Israeli state. So like any David v Goliath (and yeah, I get the irony...) they've little choice but to resort to terrorism.

Or another man's freedom fighting, to slightly misquote the old adage.

The Isreali's don't want rockets landing in their back yards?

Well here's an idea - stop bulldozing centuries old communities to build Jewish settlements, storming mosques - especially during Ramadan and oppressing Arabs in their back yards...

Do you think either side are genuinely interested in ending the conflict?

[Johnnyspireite7]

Goku, on 13 May 2021 - 03:36 PM, said:

I didn't say you said that, I asked you how you think they should react to the treatment they've received. Read properly next time please

Your turn.....see my next sentence!

[Goku]

Johnnyspireite7, on 13 May 2021 - 05:23 PM, said:

Your turn.....see my next sentence!

I asked you a question and you responded as if I had made an accusation or suggested you had made a claim.

[Middle East]

Goku, on 13 May 2021 - 06:17 PM, said:

I asked you a question and you responded as if I had made an accusation or suggested you had made a claim.

Goku,

I generally avoid posting in political debates as everyone passionately believes they are right and invariably no one changes their opinion in the end!

But as everyone is getting extremely stirred up on this I thought I'd throw my ten penneth in!

I have worked in Israel in the past and been to Gaza, Jerusalem and Tel Aviv all of which in peace time are some of the most amazing places on this planet. However peace is the key and whilst ever Hamas, ISIS etc. remain a huge threat to Israel's existence as a nation then that will never happen I assure you!

Are Israel right to kill these threats to their state in my opinion yes! The same I would hope we would do (again) if we were required defend our borders! I know Gaza is different and are Israel right to indiscriminately bomb? No absolutely not. But it is a terrorist hotbed and Hamas are cute enough to plant their people all over Gaza knowing that Israel will bomb and take civilians out which they will then use to their political advantage.

Your post saying Israel is entirely to blame and needs reigning in for me needs to be balanced against the wider issues and history of the region......which hasn't been resolved for a thousand years and in my view won't until all forms of religious extremism have!

Make love not war as a wise man once said....

This post has been edited by Middle East: 13 May 2021 - 09:09 PM

[Middle East]

DEATH, on 13 May 2021 - 05:12 PM, said:

Do you think either side are genuinely interested in ending the conflict?

90% of the beleaguered population on both sides would probably say yes! Unfortunately it's the other 10% who influence everything....

[Wooden Spoon]

Middle East said:

1620939554[/url]' post='1581848']
90% of the beleaguered population on both sides would probably say yes! Unfortunately it's the other 10% who influence everything....

And the leadership make up that 10%

[Middle East]

DEATH, on 13 May 2021 - 09:09 PM, said:

And the leadership make up that 10%

On both sides regrettably!

[Wooden Spoon]

Middle East said:

1620938708[/url]' post='1581843']
Goku,

I generally avoid posting in political debates as everyone passionately believes they are right and invariably no one changes their opinion in the end!

But as everyone is getting extremely stirred up on this I thought I'd throw my ten penneth in!

I have worked in Israel in the past and been to Gaza, Jerusalem and Tel Aviv all of which in peace time are some of the most amazing places on this planet. However peace is the key and whilst ever Hamas, ISIS etc. remain a huge threat to Israel's existence as a nation then that will never happen I assure you!

Are Israel right to kill these threats to their state in my opinion yes! The same I would hope we would do (again) if we were required defend our borders! I know Gaza is different and are Israel right to indiscriminately bomb? No absolutely not. But it is a terrorist hotbed and Hamas are cute enough to plant their people all over Gaza knowing that Israel will bomb and take civilians out which they will then use to their political advantage.

Your post saying Israel is entirely to blame and needs reigning in for me needs to be balanced against the wider issues and history of the region......which hasn't been resolved for a thousand years and in my view won't until all forms of religious extremism have!

Make love not war as a wise man once said....

A friend of mine who also worked in these places said....”if Israel laid down their arms it would be a blood bath. If the Arabs laid down their arms it would be peace”



Simplistic and takes no account of Israel’s excess, expansion of settlement and intolerance you can understand the sentiment.

[Middle East]

DEATH, on 13 May 2021 - 09:13 PM, said:

A friend of mine who also worked in these places said....”if Israel laid down their arms it would be a blood bath. If the Arabs laid down their arms it would be peace”



Simplistic and takes no account of Israel’s excess, expansion of settlement and intolerance you can understand the sentiment.

The middle east was a conundrum before the state of Israel existed my friend and it will remain that long after the 2 of us are pushing up daisies....

This post has been edited by Middle East: 13 May 2021 - 09:28 PM

[Goku]

Middle East, on 13 May 2021 - 08:45 PM, said:

However peace is the key and whilst ever Hamas, ISIS etc. remain a huge threat to Israel's existence as a nation then that will never happen I assure you!

Are Israel right to kill these threats to their state in my opinion yes! The same I would hope we would do (again) if we were required defend our borders!

Israel is a huge threat to Palestine and Palestinian’s existence, so in response I’d say Palestinians are right to slaughter Israelis then 🤷🏼‍♂️ Israel have killed roughly 10x more Arabs than Arabs have killed Israelis, who is the threat to whose nation again?

The way I see it, they have no choice. It’s sit calmly and watch your communities be destroyed or fight back. If I put myself in their shoes I’d be taking up arms.

This post has been edited by Goku: 14 May 2021 - 05:32 AM

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

DEATH, on 13 May 2021 - 05:12 PM, said:

Do you think either side are genuinely interested in ending the conflict?

I think there're parallels with NI.

I think the ordinary people who live side by side just want to get on with their lives.

But sadly, I also think there're those on both sides with vested interests on maintaining conflict.

Politicians creating an enemy to keep folk distracted?

Same all over the world...

[Wooden Spoon]

The Earl of Chesterfield said:

1620970906[/url]' post='1581869']
I think there're parallels with NI.

I think the ordinary people who live side by side just want to get on with their lives.

But sadly, I also think there're those on both sides with vested interests on maintaining conflict.

Politicians creating an enemy to keep folk distracted?

Same all over the world...

As you and HB above said, Israel could do a lot to de escalate the conflict - provocative expansion of settlements is just going to keep the fires burning. And while they get huge amounts of financial and military support what reason do they have for change?

[azul]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 14 May 2021 - 05:41 AM, said:

I think there're parallels with NI.

I think the ordinary people who live side by side just want to get on with their lives.

But sadly, I also think there're those on both sides with vested interests on maintaining conflict.

Politicians creating an enemy to keep folk distracted?

Same all over the world...

Every time Netanyahu is in trouble politically, there is trouble somewhere on their border or within.

This post has been edited by azul: 14 May 2021 - 08:50 PM

[Wooden Spoon]

azul, on 14 May 2021 - 08:50 PM, said:

Every time Netanyahu is in trouble politically, there is trouble somewhere on their border or within.

bull.


Olmert, Sharon,Barack and Peres - spanning 20 odd years the policy has been the same. Don’t try to blame it on some sort of short term populist thing.

[azul]

DEATH, on 15 May 2021 - 01:58 AM, said:

bull.

Olmert, Sharon,Barack and Peres - spanning 20 odd years the policy has been the same. Don’t try to blame it on some sort of short term populist thing.

Like to point out than Netanyahu has been influential during those 20 odd years: in fact Prime Minister for 15 out of 25 years much of it under domestic investigation, continual elections and government coalitions.

But I take your point that provoking confrontation for short term and long term goals is not his and his alone. Sometimes a few simple assassinations is all that's required.

This post has been edited by azul: 16 May 2021 - 10:11 AM

[Wooden Spoon]

azul said:

1621159832[/url]' post='1582526']
Like to point out than Netanyahu has been influential during those 20 odd years: in fact Prime Minister for 15 out of 25 years much of it under domestic investigation, continual elections and government coalitions.

But I take your point that provoking confrontation for short term and long term goals is not his and his alone. Sometimes a few simple assassinations is all that's required.

Long term it has suited Israel to have “troubles” o rather it has not suited Israel to have a serious attempt at peace....until pressure from the USA forced the Oslo talks.....and when Yasser turned down a deal that was 90% of what they wanted......we tried, we didn’t walk away, the PLO walked away....they are the bad guys......





Since the 1967 victory and Occupation they have been the dominant power. They have consolidated the land grab. Peace would mean losing some, if not most of that land grab. It doesn’t appeal to them to walk out of Jerusalem.. It doesn’t suit them to pull down the wall The status quo suits them while they get the financial and military support for them to remain the dominant military power.

[Search & Destroy]

See ISIS (Bradford branch) were out in force in North London yesterday

Calling for the rape of Jewish women on loud hailers

And the usual suspects (Sarah Everard?) “marching for Palestine” (rioting with the police) on Saturday

[Search & Destroy]

Goku, on 14 May 2021 - 05:30 AM, said:

Israel is a huge threat to Palestine and Palestinian’s existence, so in response I’d say Palestinians are right to slaughter Israelis then 🤷🏼‍♂️ Israel have killed roughly 10x more Arabs than Arabs have killed Israelis, who is the threat to whose nation again?

The way I see it, they have no choice. It’s sit calmly and watch your communities be destroyed or fight back. If I put myself in their shoes I’d be taking up arms.

Taking up arms?

Where? In residential buildings hiding with women and children, inviting attack to then use deaths as political propaganda?

[Goku]

Search and Destroy, on 17 May 2021 - 07:40 AM, said:

Taking up arms?

Where? In residential buildings hiding with women and children, inviting attack to then use deaths as political propaganda?

Zzzzz