[Close but no prawn sarnies]

I have read many posts stating or implying that Dave Allen wants the ground.
Why on earth would he ?
My understanding is that the land was gifted with a restriction on there being only a sports stadium on it.
If this is the case ( depending on the actual wording and strenght of the covenant ) surely the stadium despite its cost, only has a restricted value it indeed without a team playing on it, it could end up a liability not an asset.

Some stadiums are valuable because of their alternative use potential ie redevelopment value , the proact on face value cannot be redeveloped.

I assume what the major investor wants and now may have, is total control ,not a stadium ?

If there are any board members with knowledge of valuing stadiums it would be very interesting to get a take on it

This post has been edited by Close but no prawn sarnies: 12 December 2016 - 04:13 PM

[essexspireman]

he could rent it back to the club for loads of money per year?

[Mr Mercury]

When Mansfield were in non league they were paying Haslam about 200k a year, in 2015 Oxford were paying Kassam 440k a year. Very lucrative for the landlord, not so for the tennant.

[S43_Spireite]

Not sure here but..........would he not still be able to operate the Corporate Facilities?

[The Black Triangle]

Close but no prawn sarnies, on 12 December 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

I have read many posts stating or implying that Dave Allen wants the ground.
Why on earth would he ?
My understanding is that the land was gifted with a restriction on there being only a sports stadium on it.
If this is the case ( depending on the actual wording and strenght of the covenant ) surely the stadium despite its cost, only has a restricted value it indeed without a team playing on it, it could end up a liability not an asset.

Some stadiums are valuable because of their alternative use potential ie redevelopment value , the proact on face value cannot be redeveloped.

I assume what the major investor wants and now may have, is total control ,not a stadium ?

If there are any board members with knowledge of valuing stadiums it would be very interesting to get a take on it

He takes all profits from C+B, concourse sales and then charges rent to the football club. He could even take the sponsorship money for each stand. It might make him £500k a year profit.
The football club lives off turnstile monies

[60s 70s Spireite]

The Gimp, on 12 December 2016 - 05:08 PM, said:

He takes all profits from C+B, concourse sales and then charges rent to the football club. He could even take the sponsorship money for each stand. It might make him £500k a year profit.
The football club lives off turnstile monies

Which he rids himself of, so the new owners have the headache of paying the rent, with little to no income.

[moondog]

and the fans will boycott spending on the concourses and corporate events

[The Black Triangle]

60s 70s Spireite, on 12 December 2016 - 05:11 PM, said:

Which he rids himself of, so the new owners have the headache of paying the rent, with little to no income.

This is the sort of opportunity a chancer like Bingham or Brown would love, buy it for a nominal fee, pay rent but nothing else, sign players who your the agent for and make a quick buck before putting the club into administration having made a few ££££ and move on.
Ownership under these circumstances might be the thing for CFSS 2.

[Spireite-Karl]

Great thread btw.

[60s 70s Spireite]

The Gimp, on 12 December 2016 - 05:33 PM, said:

This is the sort of opportunity a chancer like Bingham or Brown would love, buy it for a nominal fee, pay rent but nothing else, sign players who your the agent for and make a quick buck before putting the club into administration having made a few ££££ and move on.
Ownership under these circumstances might be the thing for CFSS 2.

Agree, at all costs if it does happen; but I just can't see how any viable financial model could meet the rent likely to be charged.

[boot]

60s 70s Spireite, on 12 December 2016 - 06:50 PM, said:

Agree, at all costs if it does happen; but I just can't see how any viable financial model could meet the rent likely to be charged.

If the rent isn't viable the club folds and he gets nowt.

[Guest_freelander2_*]

Close but no prawn sarnies, on 12 December 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

I have read many posts stating or implying that Dave Allen wants the ground.
Why on earth would he ?
My understanding is that the land was gifted with a restriction on there being only a sports stadium on it.
If this is the case ( depending on the actual wording and strenght of the covenant ) surely the stadium despite its cost, only has a restricted value it indeed without a team playing on it, it could end up a liability not an asset.

Some stadiums are valuable because of their alternative use potential ie redevelopment value , the proact on face value cannot be redeveloped.

I assume what the major investor wants and now may have, is total control ,not a stadium ?

If there are any board members with knowledge of valuing stadiums it would be very interesting to get a take on it

Taking the situation at face value, general observations:

1) His £4M investment (shareholding) has declined significantly in value.

2) When the business can afford to pay the interest on his loans, they attract 45% tax, deductible at source.

3) I suspect commercial rent could be charged in the region of 7% to 8% of the facilities value.

4) If the stadium is held in a ltd company, expenses can be offset against income and corporation tax is charged at 20% on profits (17% by 2020).

[Half Full]

I don't really understand why he would want to own the club at all. He's not as far as I'm aware a life long fan, clearly had issues as owner of Wednesday and there doesn't seem much evidence generally that football clubs are a good investment. What was his initial motivation in getting involved? Has that motive now changed?

[Spireite-Karl]

Half Full, on 12 December 2016 - 07:42 PM, said:

I don't really understand why he would want to own the club at all. He's not as far as I'm aware a life long fan, clearly had issues as owner of Wednesday and there doesn't seem much evidence generally that football clubs are a good investment. What was his initial motivation in getting involved? Has that motive now changed?

Who knows, I look back on the Brown era and you can draw strong comparisons. Brown gave us everything we wanted to hear and a made sure we had a good attacking team on the pitch, this enabled his fraud to go undetected for a long as possible. Now for legal reasons I'm not saying this about Allen, though folks can draw their own conclusions.

[Mr Mercury]

Spireite-Karl, on 12 December 2016 - 07:50 PM, said:

Who knows, I look back on the Brown era and you can draw strong comparisons. Brown gave us everything we wanted to hear and a made sure we had a good attacking team on the pitch, this enabled his fraud to go undetected for a long as possible. Now for legal reasons I'm not saying this about Allen, though folks can draw their own conclusions.

TBH Brown was as thick as pig s..hite, his fraud was detectable in weeks.

[Spireite-Karl]

Mr Mercury, on 12 December 2016 - 07:53 PM, said:

TBH Brown was as thick as pig s..hite, his fraud was detectable in weeks.

Haha agreed. Sadly DA is entirely a different proposition altogether.

[boot]

freelander2, on 12 December 2016 - 07:29 PM, said:

Taking the situation at face value, general observations:

1) His £4M investment (shareholding) has declined significantly in value.

2) When the business can afford to pay the interest on his loans, they attract 45% tax, deductible at source.

3) I suspect commercial rent could be charged in the region of 7% to 8% of the facilities value.

4) If the stadium is held in a ltd company, expenses can be offset against income and corporation tax is charged at 20% on profits (17% by 2020).

What would your estimate of that be? The rental route has obvious attractions for him.

freelander2, on 12 December 2016 - 07:29 PM, said:

Taking the situation at face value, general observations:

1) His £4M investment (shareholding) has declined significantly in value.

2) When the business can afford to pay the interest on his loans, they attract 45% tax, deductible at source.

3) I suspect commercial rent could be charged in the region of 7% to 8% of the facilities value.

4) If the stadium is held in a ltd company, expenses can be offset against income and corporation tax is charged at 20% on profits (17% by 2020).

What would your estimate of that be? The rental route has obvious attractions for him.

[The Black Triangle]

freelander2, on 12 December 2016 - 07:29 PM, said:

Taking the situation at face value, general observations:

1) His £4M investment (shareholding) has declined significantly in value.

2) When the business can afford to pay the interest on his loans, they attract 45% tax, deductible at source.

3) I suspect commercial rent could be charged in the region of 7% to 8% of the facilities value.

4) If the stadium is held in a ltd company, expenses can be offset against income and corporation tax is charged at 20% on profits (17% by 2020).

So somewhere in the region of £750k in rent! Bl@@dy hell! Does that include us running the C+B set up, and renting the facility?


Nah, I see something much simpler. He runs the stadium and the facilities, keeps the profits from the lounges etc and just charges the club a fairly nominal fee for use of the stadium on match days.
Someone else has the headache of running the club and all the associated issues/costs

This post has been edited by The Gimp: 12 December 2016 - 08:12 PM

[60s 70s Spireite]

boot, on 12 December 2016 - 08:02 PM, said:

What would your estimate of that be? The rental route has obvious attractions for him

By way of illustration of the difficulty of valuing such facilities; One valuer gave a value of £14M and another £48M for the Ricoh Stadium. Which led the disputing parties to Court.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Spireite-Karl, on 12 December 2016 - 07:50 PM, said:

Who knows, I look back on the Brown era and you can draw strong comparisons. Brown gave us everything we wanted to hear and a made sure we had a good attacking team on the pitch, this enabled his fraud to go undetected for a long as possible. Now for legal reasons I'm not saying this about Allen, though folks can draw their own conclusions.

Dave Allen has invested millions into CFC whilst Brown was nothing more than a two-bob conman.

I don't think we should even begin comparing the two, Karl.

Infact when all's said and done it's Allen's money that's being lost.

The question no one can seem to square is why he continues to tolerate individuals responsible for such apparent incompetence allied to a succession of scandals?