[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Think I've nailed it - folk want Labour to be a nice version of the Tories.

Yeah...?

[Mr Mercury]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 07 May 2021 - 08:19 PM, said:

Think I've nailed it - folk want Labour to be a nice version of the Tories.

Yeah...?

They want them to be a party of the ordinary everyday man in the street.
Khalid Mahmood nailed it. What do you think of his comments?
Bearing in mind he was the Shadow Defence Secretary. He’s the first senior Labour politician to have the minerals to say what the millions of ex Labour voters think, do you agree with him?
It would appear that Labour figures are starting to agree with the masses rather than deride them. It would be a start.

This post has been edited by Mr Mercury: 07 May 2021 - 08:32 PM

[Goku]

stevie_b, on 07 May 2021 - 05:15 PM, said:

She isn't deluded. And for the record CPS, I've never been anything but polite to you.

I don't read the Daily Mail and I'm banned from Twitter for taking the view that men cannot become women.

ETA This is not a lone cry in the dark. If I'm deluded, then many women are deluded. Lots of female Labour voters have put their X somewhere else this time around.

You're not a fan of women, are you?

You’ll enjoy this; I’m banned from Twitter for the same reason. It’s good though, life is better sans Twitter.

[Mr Mercury]

Goku, on 07 May 2021 - 09:19 PM, said:

You’ll enjoy this; I’m banned from Twitter for the same reason. It’s good though, life is better sans Twitter.

Help me out here.
If you’re banned from Twitter for championing women’s rights over transgender rights, is that a good thing re social media monitoring or a bad thing?

[isleaiw1]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 07 May 2021 - 05:08 PM, said:

Yup, the tories have traditionally been far, well, for want of a better word 'slicker' than Labour. We hear it every day during every interview from every stooge. Infact all last week it was a never ending mantra of "the public aren't interested in sleaze, they're only interested in vaccines'.

But that's probably because they have millions upon millions more than any other party to spend on such stuff.

And why is that, Ian? Why do wealthy individuals and companies spend fortunes funding the tories? For the benefit of ordinary folk or favours for themselves? Why do billionaires buy loss making media platforms. Why do they spend massive amounts manipulating public opinion? Why did Bozo place much more importance on bullying the BBC than addressing the pandemic?

Could it possibly be because it pays off?

The electorate aren't stupid, pal. However advertising works...

So if they arent stupid but they voted for Brexit and they voted against Labour several times, what are you saying...

Yes, be slicker. Its not a crime, marketing works. We might not like to admit it but when we buy Heinz, or maybe even Tesco, or perhaps BMW or Ford, we are won over by the message of the brand. Tony understood it. New Labour was a brand. Go for it. Play the game. Win and have effect rather than ignore and have none...

[isleaiw1]

calvin plummers socks, on 07 May 2021 - 04:52 PM, said:

She’s deluded if she believes that’s though!

Too much Daily Mail or Twitter I reckon.

for someone who thinks (rightly) that the UK should be accepting of other views on religion, you are very blinkered about people who have different views on other matters. For me, if we are accepting of all views on one subject we have to be accepting on all views on all things. Whether you agree or not.

We could go back to the old days, one religion,one view on sexuality, one view on class and one view on colour. Not my way, and I presume not yours. Being open means being open all ways, not just your way.....

[isleaiw1]

azul, on 07 May 2021 - 04:48 PM, said:

Are saying dumb down the message so the electorate can understand? Sounds like something the metropolitan elite would come up with

You clearly have time and inclination to read alot. My guess is the majority of the electorate dont.... so saying sound bites and easy understanding is not decrying their intelligence, just their interest.. The metropolitan elite think we are all stupid not uninterested in their storytelling...

So yes, sell a simple message. keep it clear and simple. Make it a soundbite if needed. Be Blair not Corbyn.

[isleaiw1]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 07 May 2021 - 05:08 PM, said:

Yup, the tories have traditionally been far, well, for want of a better word 'slicker' than Labour. We hear it every day during every interview from every stooge. Infact all last week it was a never ending mantra of "the public aren't interested in sleaze, they're only interested in vaccines'.

But that's probably because they have millions upon millions more than any other party to spend on such stuff.

And why is that, Ian? Why do wealthy individuals and companies spend fortunes funding the tories? For the benefit of ordinary folk or favours for themselves? Why do billionaires buy loss making media platforms. Why do they spend massive amounts manipulating public opinion? Why did Bozo place much more importance on bullying the BBC than addressing the pandemic?

Could it possibly be because it pays off?

The electorate aren't stupid, pal. However advertising works...

PS businesses support Tory for same reason Union support Labour. Self Interest. No different on both sides. Raising it is a bad idea. As being tied to union votes and radical ideas is probably one of Labour's parachutes holding them back.

And that isnt a dig about Union members but Union leaders playing politicians who have forgotten that the important bit is to win and retain power, not moan...

[Wooden Spoon]

isleaiw1 said:

1620431429[/url]' post='1580332']
You clearly have time and inclination to read alot. My guess is the majority of the electorate dont.... so saying sound bites and easy understanding is not decrying their intelligence, just their interest.. The metropolitan elite think we are all stupid not uninterested in their storytelling...

So yes, sell a simple message. keep it clear and simple. Make it a soundbite if needed. Be Blair not Corbyn.

More like most people don’t follow politics everyday, just catch headlines on the news, maybe reading the paper in their lunch break, and only really take notice during election times.....and even then, local elections often don’t get the voters motivated enough to even bother voting.




So yes, clear, simple concise positive messages that people will take notice of, and grab their attention.

[Wooden Spoon]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 07 May 2021 - 08:19 PM, said:

Think I've nailed it - folk want Labour to be a nice version of the Tories.

Yeah...?

No mate.


I’m sick to death of Labour handing election victory after election victory to the tories because they won’t listen and stuck to a dogma that the voters don’t want.



We’ve got the worst government led by the most dishonest prime minister in my life. And I’m angry - not with the tories, but with Labour because they handed it to them on a plate.

[dart in the crossbar]

As DEATH has said, 'Beyond the Red Wall' says it all really.

Comparisons between the footy super league and the Jersey fishing protest show how Labour don't seem to have learned much in recent years.

Labour

Opportunity to spin Jersey fishing protests as Johnson's fault due to a lack of Brexit planning and new Brexit red tape - two clear and potentially attractive messages for voters given how many businesses have been hit by both. Photoshoots of Starmer smoothing out some business deal for a big company. 'Labour helps businesses to tackle red tape' = Missed

Opportunity to spin Super League as Johnson's fault due to his alleged meeting with Glazer in the run up to the announcement. Opportunity to align with protest groups and then claim victory once plans scrapped. Photoshoots of Starmer with his Arsenal shirt on with Arsenal fans outside the ground, meeting with club officials looking stern. 'Labour saves football' = Missed

What we got was a photo of Starmer looing sheepish in his mask with some wallpaper.

Tories


'Boris sends in the gunboats' - tick

Whilst they were fairly quiet on the super league until after the elections - they are now adding its demise to a list of tory successes - tick

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dart in the crossbar, on 08 May 2021 - 06:40 AM, said:

As DEATH has said, 'Beyond the Red Wall' says it all really.

Comparisons between the footy super league and the Jersey fishing protest show how Labour don't seem to have learned much in recent years.

Labour

Opportunity to spin Jersey fishing protests as Johnson's fault due to a lack of Brexit planning and new Brexit red tape - two clear and potentially attractive messages for voters given how many businesses have been hit by both. Photoshoots of Starmer smoothing out some business deal for a big company. 'Labour helps businesses to tackle red tape' = Missed

Opportunity to spin Super League as Johnson's fault due to his alleged meeting with Glazer in the run up to the announcement. Opportunity to align with protest groups and then claim victory once plans scrapped. Photoshoots of Starmer with his Arsenal shirt on with Arsenal fans outside the ground, meeting with club officials looking stern. 'Labour saves football' = Missed

What we got was a photo of Starmer looing sheepish in his mask with some wallpaper.

Tories


'Boris sends in the gunboats' - tick

Whilst they were fairly quiet on the super league until after the elections - they are now adding its demise to a list of tory successes - tick

Good post.

Spot on.

Meanwhile a more nuanced picture emerges this morning, with all the ruling regimes getting support from voters thinking they've done a decent job facing the pandemic.

Labour in Wales, the Tories in England and the SNP in Scotland.

SKS has to up his game considerably, however maybe, just perhaps, all's still to be played for...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 08 May 2021 - 07:26 AM

[Wooden Spoon]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 08 May 2021 - 07:20 AM, said:

Good post.

Spot on.

Meanwhile a more nuanced picture emerges this morning, with all the ruling regimes getting support from voters thinking they've done a decent job facing the pandemic.

Labour in Wales, the Tories in England and the SNP in Scotland.

SKS has to up his game considerably, however maybe, just perhaps, all's still to be played for...

There the best part of three years to go so there is time for the PLP to sit down and have a rethink. To re engage with voters, to come up with some policies that will enthuse voters that will be positive and upbeat, and that those who went blue for the first time can identify with.

[spireitetoo]

Until Labour apoint a charismatic leader, someone who connects with the public, says what they want to hear, and gives Boris a good kicking every now and again, they are going nowhere,best thing SKS can do is resign, he doesn't have the backing of the public, it needs a northern leader, someone who knows the country doesn't end at Northampton.

[dart in the crossbar]

The missing question on BBC breakfast this morning when it went back to the studio this morning was ' So, Chris, why didn't you ask them what that has got anything whatsoever to do with labour?'. It wasn't asked.

The back story

Chris Mason on a ship in Hartlepool interviewing a vicar and and father and son earlier this morning.

After the Labour supporting vicar expressed concerns about poverty and foodbanks, without comment Mason quickly turned to the son (businessman).

Son said that he was pleased that the Tories won.

His father then talked nervously about following heritage and voting labour. His father then got a bit angry and said that Labour have let the area down so he's pleased that the Tories won. His son started nodding in agreement. Without prompting (I think) the dad said that Labour have let down the local hospitals. The son then came up with saying that the local hospital has so few doctors that he was worried that his recent child would need to be transferred to another hospital. And that it was Labours fault. The father nodded his agreement

and so, given the opportunity to ask these two guys how the hell it is Labour's fault that their local hospitals have insufficient doctors, Mason opted to go down the route of asking the son about him having had two kids during lockdown. Mason got a bit 'ooh err missus, you've been a bit 'busy' eh eh! phwwaaar!' He then cut back to the studio.

At least I think that it was Chris Mason, it could have been Alan Partridge to be honest.

[azul]

dart in the crossbar, on 08 May 2021 - 08:22 AM, said:

The missing question on BBC breakfast this morning when it went back to the studio this morning was ' So, Chris, why didn't you ask them what that has got anything whatsoever to do with labour?'. It wasn't asked.

The back story

Chris Mason on a ship in Hartlepool interviewing a vicar and and father and son earlier this morning.

After the Labour supporting vicar expressed concerns about poverty and foodbanks, without comment Mason quickly turned to the son (businessman).

Son said that he was pleased that the Tories won.

His father then talked nervously about following heritage and voting labour. His father then got a bit angry and said that Labour have let the area down so he's pleased that the Tories won. His son started nodding in agreement. Without prompting (I think) the dad said that Labour have let down the local hospitals. The son then came up with saying that the local hospital has so few doctors that he was worried that his recent child would need to be transferred to another hospital. And that it was Labours fault. The father nodded his agreement

and so, given the opportunity to ask these two guys how the hell it is Labour's fault that their local hospitals have insufficient doctors, Mason opted to go down the route of asking the son about him having had two kids during lockdown. Mason got a bit 'ooh err missus, you've been a bit 'busy' eh eh! phwwaaar!' He then cut back to the studio.

At least I think that it was Chris Mason, it could have been Alan Partridge to be honest.

That certainly illustrates what Labour are up against

[dart in the crossbar]

Quaker, on 08 May 2021 - 09:05 AM, said:

The biggest challenge Labour face are themselves. Because they refuse to understand what the general public want to hear.

It would seem that the BBC think that the general public want to hear a bit of banter about lockdown babies rather than politics on the morning after a significant set of results - even when a member of the public says something political that is patently nonsense.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Quaker, on 08 May 2021 - 09:05 AM, said:

The biggest challenge Labour face are themselves. Because they refuse to understand what the general public want to hear.

So, again, why don't you spell it out?

[azul]

dart in the crossbar, on 08 May 2021 - 09:34 AM, said:

It would seem that the BBC think that the general public want to hear a bit of banter about lockdown babies rather than politics on the morning after a significant set of results - even when a member of the public says something political that is patently nonsense.

Sad you have to spell it out