[turrhall]

dtp, on 24 April 2024 - 07:59 AM, said:

Without counting up the answer is “not necessarily”.

Goalkeepers don’t count and neither do players under 21 on 01/01/24 such as Brown & Freckleton. The young CB at Rochdale would fit into this category too.

Believe that U21s on loan DO count towards the squad limit.

As you say GKs do not, and any U21s that are under contract with us also do not.

[Fit as a Nelson]

dtp, on 24 April 2024 - 09:54 AM, said:

Didn’t we also have Jones at LB who I remember as being like a greyhound going forward but a tortoise getting back. Also, well remembered for his theatrics against the blunts.

Yes, but that was league 1. Had that fight with Izale Mcleod as well and seemed to fall down the pecking order a bit.

[Osborne again]

We'll not be playing with our full backs standing on the heels of our attacking wide players next season, because it's already been said, so we'll be defending with a four instead of a two. We do need pace at the back, but we're going to struggle finding a ready to roll centre back who has pace, can time a tackle to perfection, has anticipation and can head a ball like a premiership player unless we're going to spend big time.
We have had Freckleton on loan for this season but, because Grimes has been virtually ever present he's hardly featured in his chosen position, so we don't know if he could be the right man for the job. If Freckleton comes back next season I'd be happy because there's a decent centre back in there and according to someone who's in the know (I know, I think the same) he's not getting another contract from United, so if the info is right, I'd go for Freckleton.
We also need a back-up to Mandeville, because no one can effectively play in his position on the right. We have plenty who can play centre mid and wide left, but no one has looked good on the right.

[Fit as a Nelson]

Osborne again, on 24 April 2024 - 12:10 PM, said:

We'll not be playing with our full backs standing on the heels of our attacking wide players next season, because it's already been said, so we'll be defending with a four instead of a two. We do need pace at the back, but we're going to struggle finding a ready to roll centre back who has pace, can time a tackle to perfection, has anticipation and can head a ball like a premiership player unless we're going to spend big time.
We have had Freckleton on loan for this season but, because Grimes has been virtually ever present he's hardly featured in his chosen position, so we don't know if he could be the right man for the job. If Freckleton comes back next season I'd be happy because there's a decent centre back in there and according to someone who's in the know (I know, I think the same) he's not getting another contract from United, so if the info is right, I'd go for Freckleton.
We also need a back-up to Mandeville, because no one can effectively play in his position on the right. We have plenty who can play centre mid and wide left, but no one has looked good on the right.

I think our full backs will still be attacking, they was last time. I heard Cook on a Wigan podcast talking about how his teams always have a defensive ‘box’ of four players, his two centre half’s and two defensive midfielders. I think Naylor will be staying back a lot more next season. Also, the defender you’re describing there sounds very much like Chey Dunkley to me. Completely agree about competition for Mandeville.

This post has been edited by Fit as a Nelson: 24 April 2024 - 12:25 PM

[Osborne again]

Fit as a Nelson, on 24 April 2024 - 12:23 PM, said:

I think our full backs will still be attacking, they was last time. I heard Cook on a Wigan podcast talking about how his teams always have a defensive ‘box’ of four players, his two centre half’s and two defensive midfielders. I think Naylor will be staying back a lot more next season. Also, the defender you’re describing there sounds very much like Chey Dunkley to me. Completely agree about competition for Mandeville.

Dunkley, if available, at the right price, would definitely be the man, but how many others will be after his signature? The full backs we have now, are much slower than the ones Cook had to call on last time and we have two of them contracted for next season, so either one will be stopping back or the two holding midfielders won't be going further forward than the halfway line unless we have an unsurmountable lead.

[JonB]

Fit as a Nelson, on 24 April 2024 - 12:23 PM, said:

I think our full backs will still be attacking, they was last time. I heard Cook on a Wigan podcast talking about how his teams always have a defensive ‘box’ of four players, his two centre half’s and two defensive midfielders. I think Naylor will be staying back a lot more next season. Also, the defender you’re describing there sounds very much like Chey Dunkley to me. Completely agree about competition for Mandeville.

Thats how we played under him last time around in League 2 and League 1....Morsy and Ryan protecting the back four a bit more giving licence to Darikwa at right back and whoever played left back that i cant remember to get forward.

[Voiceofjoe]

Osborne again, on 24 April 2024 - 12:10 PM, said:

We'll not be playing with our full backs standing on the heels of our attacking wide players next season, because it's already been said, so we'll be defending with a four instead of a two. We do need pace at the back, but we're going to struggle finding a ready to roll centre back who has pace, can time a tackle to perfection, has anticipation and can head a ball like a premiership player unless we're going to spend big time.
We have had Freckleton on loan for this season but, because Grimes has been virtually ever present he's hardly featured in his chosen position, so we don't know if he could be the right man for the job. If Freckleton comes back next season I'd be happy because there's a decent centre back in there and according to someone who's in the know (I know, I think the same) he's not getting another contract from United, so if the info is right, I'd go for Freckleton.
We also need a back-up to Mandeville, because no one can effectively play in his position on the right. We have plenty who can play centre mid and wide left, but no one has looked good on the right.

It’s the overlapping defender's that provide the width.
A good portion of the forward wide players have only got one decent foot and tend to drift inside more than provide crosses from wide.
So pretty sure the defenders will be bombing on as this year.
A lot of the issues have been losing the ball in central areas, as the previous poster said I’ve also heard Cook talk of a box of four in the middle, so think that may be the way we go.

[MrTall]

sophocles, on 24 April 2024 - 08:33 AM, said:

Progress isn't necessarily achieved by a lot of chopping and changing, in fact that could have the opposite effect. The skills required of a good manager include introducing enough change to produce improved performance, without disrupting the cohesion of the squad, or impeding the development of players already in the squad. PC is a vastly experienced and successful manager, and I have every confidence that he will preserve the tangible unity of his group of players whilst improving the depth and quality of the whole squad.

Agreed. The point I was making is there's got to come a point where we need to 'upgrade' some players. We simply can't keep all of them (particularly the defence) if we want to improve year on year. I suspect we've now already seen the best of some of them. Sadly, King is one example.

[Phil V 72]

MrTall, on 24 April 2024 - 01:55 PM, said:

Agreed. The point I was making is there's got to come a point where we need to 'upgrade' some players. We simply can't keep all of them (particularly the defence) if we want to improve year on year. I suspect we've now already seen the best of some of them. Sadly, King is one example.

I suspect we’ll see a few (maybe 2/3) changes per transfer window and the squad will evolve over a couple of seasons.

[Osborne again]

Voiceofjoe, on 24 April 2024 - 01:28 PM, said:

It’s the overlapping defender's that provide the width.
A good portion of the forward wide players have only got one decent foot and tend to drift inside more than provide crosses from wide.
So pretty sure the defenders will be bombing on as this year.
A lot of the issues have been losing the ball in central areas, as the previous poster said I’ve also heard Cook talk of a box of four in the middle, so think that may be the way we go.

I fully agree with the overlap but we do have wide players who can cross a ball with Mandeville, Colclough, Jacobs and Berry springing to mind. The problem we have is, that our full backs have no real pace to get them back into a defensive position and we need a proper stand-in for Mike Jones because Oldaker isn't one, as yet.

[Trigger]

Someone's posting pictures of rumored targets on twitter. I only recognise Drummond and Cooper. Some bloke in a Hull kit (that looks a bit like Billy sharpe, did he play for hull) and some youth signing a contract somewhere in the past. I'm pretty much out of touch with efl players cos I lost interest when we went down

[Johnnyspireite7]

JonB, on 24 April 2024 - 01:09 PM, said:

Thats how we played under him last time around in League 2 and League 1....Morsy and Ryan protecting the back four a bit more giving licence to Darikwa at right back and whoever played left back that i cant remember to get forward.

Our full backs in 13/14 were Nathan Smith, Drew Talbot, Richie Humphreys, Tendayi Darikwa and Ryan Edwards,

[spireitecraig]

Trigger, on 24 April 2024 - 02:58 PM, said:

Someone's posting pictures of rumored targets on twitter. I only recognise Drummond and Cooper. Some bloke in a Hull kit (that looks a bit like Billy sharpe, did he play for hull) and some youth signing a contract somewhere in the past. I'm pretty much out of touch with efl players cos I lost interest when we went down

He plays for Hull now, 10 league appearances since signing in January

[metallilad]

Fit as a Nelson, on 24 April 2024 - 09:27 AM, said:

I was thinking the other day about Cooks last league 2 squad, the difference in defence is massive. Talbot, Darikwa, Hird, Evatt, Cooper, Smith, Humphrey’s.. do any of our current defenders get anywhere near that? I don’t think so. They was probably helped by having a better keeper in net and Ryan and Morsy in front of them however. Notts county’s defenders are a good example, they conceded 42 goals in their promotion season they’ve already conceded 85 so far in league 2 and there’s still another game to go. We conceded 65 this season for comparison. I’m not worried in the slightest I have full trust in Cook doing what needs to be done. I would let go any defender that isn’t currently under contract and possibly even try and move a few on who are.

If you listen to KD interview he clearly said that they sacrificed the defending to go all out attack. Maybe if the current defenders had some better protection in front of them (in the form of tactics) then the defence wont be so exposed to counter attacks.
Cooky obviously signed them onto new contracts with the confidence that a more balanced tactic would work with the current squad.

[SpireRam]

spireitecraig, on 24 April 2024 - 03:06 PM, said:

He plays for Hull now, 10 league appearances since signing in January

Not a single 90 minutes played in over a year and will be 39 next season. About as far away from a Paul Cook signing as you can get, I'd have thought.

[Fit as a Nelson]

metallilad, on 24 April 2024 - 03:21 PM, said:

If you listen to KD interview he clearly said that they sacrificed the defending to go all out attack. Maybe if the current defenders had some better protection in front of them (in the form of tactics) then the defence wont be so exposed to counter attacks.
Cooky obviously signed them onto new contracts with the confidence that a more balanced tactic would work with the current squad.

Yes I listened to it, a brilliant listen. I was just pointing out our full backs will still be really attacking, as they have been in all Paul Cook teams, it’ll be our defensive midfielders that have less license to attack, creating the ‘Box’.

[Trigger]

spireitecraig, on 24 April 2024 - 03:06 PM, said:

He plays for Hull now, 10 league appearances since signing in January

Really? That's how out of touch I am😂

[Fit as a Nelson]

JonB, on 24 April 2024 - 01:09 PM, said:

Thats how we played under him last time around in League 2 and League 1....Morsy and Ryan protecting the back four a bit more giving licence to Darikwa at right back and whoever played left back that i cant remember to get forward.

Dan Jones I think you mean. Have you also noticed that Morsy and Ryan used to always look for each other with the ball? We’ve hardly seen any of that either it’s rare our holding midfield players whoever that may be have played the ball between each other but I think we will do next season. This season has been more about getting the ball to the attacking players ASAP to try and blow teams away, next season we will require more patience. I can see the posts from the usual suspects about three games in already, gerrit forrad.

[Goku]

Fit as a Nelson, on 24 April 2024 - 03:35 PM, said:

Dan Jones I think you mean. Have you also noticed that Morsy and Ryan used to always look for each other with the ball? We’ve hardly seen any of that either it’s rare our holding midfield players whoever that may be have played the ball between each other but I think we will do next season. This season has been more about getting the ball to the attacking players ASAP to try and blow teams away, next season we will require more patience. I can see the posts from the usual suspects about three games in already, gerrit forrad.

"We need to play with two strikers Cookie!"

[Fit as a Nelson]

Goku, on 24 April 2024 - 03:36 PM, said:

"We need to play with two strikers Cookie!"

Four four effin two