[Mr Mercury]

Anyone who saw his address to the Russian people must realise he’s totally unhinged.
Very real threat to world peace and a starter of WW3.

This post has been edited by Mr Mercury: 21 February 2022 - 10:07 PM

[azul]

Hasn’t got the West on a string - very dangerous game though

[Siberian Spireite]

Listened to parts of it in Russian and then read the digest afterwards. I’ve been following the whole situation very closely due to family situation and a desire to avoid serious warfare.
I’ve hoped all along that this is brinkmanship aimed at getting concessions from the West around NATO expansion - concerns which I understand, though I loathe the primitive bully-boy tactics of the Kremlin. Putin this evening looked like a man whose demands have been spurned, and who was trying to take it to the next level.
Ultimately , I can’t see that an occupation of the Ukraine could work for him, but who knows what lengths such a an individual with such a worldview might go to? He’s an old man who wants to leave a mark on the world, and cares nothing for the human cost that would incur.

[Wooden Spoon]

He wants to recreate the Soviet Union, and reinstate Russia as a world super power.

[azul]

Siberian Spireite, on 22 February 2022 - 12:30 AM, said:

Listened to parts of it in Russian and then read the digest afterwards. I’ve been following the whole situation very closely due to family situation and a desire to avoid serious warfare.
I’ve hoped all along that this is brinkmanship aimed at getting concessions from the West around NATO expansion - concerns which I understand, though I loathe the primitive bully-boy tactics of the Kremlin. Putin this evening looked like a man whose demands have been spurned, and who was trying to take it to the next level.
Ultimately , I can’t see that an occupation of the Ukraine could work for him, but who knows what lengths such a an individual with such a worldview might go to? He’s an old man who wants to leave a mark on the world, and cares nothing for the human cost that would incur.

duplicate

This post has been edited by azul: 22 February 2022 - 02:04 AM

[azul]

Siberian Spireite, on 22 February 2022 - 12:30 AM, said:

Listened to parts of it in Russian and then read the digest afterwards. I’ve been following the whole situation very closely due to family situation and a desire to avoid serious warfare.
I’ve hoped all along that this is brinkmanship aimed at getting concessions from the West around NATO expansion - concerns which I understand, though I loathe the primitive bully-boy tactics of the Kremlin. Putin this evening looked like a man whose demands have been spurned, and who was trying to take it to the next level.
Ultimately , I can’t see that an occupation of the Ukraine could work for him, but who knows what lengths such a an individual with such a worldview might go to? He’s an old man who wants to leave a mark on the world, and cares nothing for the human cost that would incur.

I thought exactly as you and probably still do for the reasons you stated.

Now starting to wonder whether a buffer zone through influence is enough for him and he's opted for occupation.

Very hard for a strongman with an ego like his to appear to backdown

[Wooden Spoon]

Mr Mercury, on 21 February 2022 - 10:05 PM, said:

Anyone who saw his address to the Russian people must realise he’s totally unhinged.
Very real threat to world peace and a starter of WW3.

Sudatenland

[Siberian Spireite]

azul, on 22 February 2022 - 02:03 AM, said:

I thought exactly as you and probably still do for the reasons you stated.

Now starting to wonder whether a buffer zone through influence is enough for him and he's opted for occupation.

Very hard for a strongman with an ego like his to appear to backdown

I thought Putin would keep Donetsk and Luhansk as part of Ukraine in order to keep Ukraine destabilised- perhaps he still will, but with his troops stationed there on a bogus ‘peacekeeping’ pretext believed by nobody but the most gullible. I can see this encirclement of Russian forces around Ukraine going on for months, and I feel for the young conscripts wasting the best years of their lives in such appalling conditions.

[azul]

Siberian Spireite, on 22 February 2022 - 10:34 AM, said:

I thought Putin would keep Donetsk and Luhansk as part of Ukraine in order to keep Ukraine destabilised- perhaps he still will, but with his troops stationed there on a bogus ‘peacekeeping’ pretext believed by nobody but the most gullible. I can see this encirclement of Russian forces around Ukraine going on for months, and I feel for the young conscripts wasting the best years of their lives in such appalling conditions.

It has been going on for years already. It is hard to believe that it has been the best part of 8 years since Russia annexed Crimea and invaded the east of Ukraine. Nothing much was done at the time but this latest crisis is quite convenient for number of national leaders. We will wait and how these sanctions bite: hopefully we’ll stop accepting cash from Putin’s enablers. That would be a start.

Still leaning towards the theory it is all a game Putin is playing, one minute angry words, next minute talk of a Biden/Putin summit, next minute angry actions. Hard to believe that the timing of this crisis coinciding with fuel price crisis is just an unfortunate coincidence.

This post has been edited by azul: 22 February 2022 - 11:31 AM

[Misnomer]

azul, on 22 February 2022 - 11:11 AM, said:

It has been going on for years already. It is hard to believe that it has been the best part of 8 years since Russia annexed Crimea and invaded the east of Ukraine. Nothing much was done at the time but this latest crisis is quite convenient for number of national leaders. We will wait and how these sanctions bite: hopefully we’ll stop accepting cash from Putin’s enablers. That would be a start.

Still leaning towards the theory it is all a game Putin is playing, one minute angry words, next minute talk of a Biden/Putin summit, next minute angry actions. Hard to believe that the timing of this crisis coinciding with fuel price crisis is just an unfortunate coincidence.

You mean like a conspiracy? 🤔

[azul]

Doubt Putin counted on Germany pulling the agreement on the gas pipeline

[Mr Mercury]

azul, on 22 February 2022 - 12:25 PM, said:

Doubt Putin counted on Germany pulling the agreement on the gas pipeline

Certainly not without a full invasion. It may have been one of the things holding him back?

[turrhall]

Wooden Spoon, on 22 February 2022 - 01:00 AM, said:

He wants to recreate the Soviet Union, and reinstate Russia as a world super power.

lol, I assume you mean he's being expansionist rather than trying to hit the big red "Communism" button.

[Mr Mercury]

turrhall, on 22 February 2022 - 01:49 PM, said:

lol, I assume you mean he's being expansionist rather than trying to hit the big red "Communism" button.

I would assume he’s doing both

[turrhall]

Mr Mercury, on 22 February 2022 - 01:54 PM, said:

I would assume he’s doing both

Finally, after a mere 20 years in power, Mr Putin has outed himself as left wing.

It's finally time: https://frinkiac.com...L8PvaRRea0=.gif

This post has been edited by turrhall: 22 February 2022 - 02:07 PM

[isleaiw1]

I think this that I have borrowed from elsewhere sums up my thoughts on the subject....

As many have observed, this isn't just about Putin and Ukraine, or even what further steps he might ultimately feel emboldened take beyond Belarus into Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland. It's about sending a signal to aggressive, authoritarian regimes around the world - China in particular in relation to Taiwan - that it's not OK to use bully-boy tactics and brute force to get what you want, because the West/Democratic nations are too divided & indecisive to apply the sort of retaliatory economic or military measures that are required, and we need to react in a decisive and joined up way.

In some respects it's no more advanced than the actions of the playground bully - unless and until someone stands up to them, they get away with it, and keep on doing it. Which is exactly what Putin has done in South Ossetia and the Crimea in the recent past.

As JFK once said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

[turrhall]

isleaiw1, on 22 February 2022 - 03:00 PM, said:

I think this that I have borrowed from elsewhere sums up my thoughts on the subject....

As many have observed, this isn't just about Putin and Ukraine, or even what further steps he might ultimately feel emboldened take beyond Belarus into Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland. It's about sending a signal to aggressive, authoritarian regimes around the world - China in particular in relation to Taiwan - that it's not OK to use bully-boy tactics and brute force to get what you want, because the West/Democratic nations are too divided & indecisive to apply the sort of retaliatory economic or military measures that are required, and we need to react in a decisive and joined up way.

In some respects it's no more advanced than the actions of the playground bully - unless and until someone stands up to them, they get away with it, and keep on doing it. Which is exactly what Putin has done in South Ossetia and the Crimea in the recent past.

As JFK once said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

Obviously I'm not in favour of Russian aggression towards Ukraine, but it seems mighty hypocritical of 'the West' to have it's stance be that invading other countries is bad. Especially in the case of Britain being against Russia holding an enclave within a different country on the grounds of ethnic similarity whilst doing exactly that in NI...

[azul]

Mr Mercury, on 22 February 2022 - 01:02 PM, said:

Certainly not without a full invasion. It may have been one of the things holding him back?

Well after all that bluster from both sides of th Atlantic, it certainly wouldn't be the threat of the UK government sanctions or indeed the US who so far can't make up its mind if it is an invasion or not [Washington Post]

[Siberian Spireite]

Rumour has it that Putin’s health is failing. This combined with his age may lead to a ‘now or never’ mentality, no matter the cost. I’m still hoping it’s a bluff but there are no genuine checks and balances upon the dictator’s actions within the rotten Kremlin system.

[Misnomer]

turrhall, on 22 February 2022 - 03:27 PM, said:

Obviously I'm not in favour of Russian aggression towards Ukraine, but it seems mighty hypocritical of 'the West' to have it's stance be that invading other countries is bad. Especially in the case of Britain being against Russia holding an enclave within a different country on the grounds of ethnic similarity whilst doing exactly that in NI...

And even more hypocritical to talk about Ukraine as 'democratic' country (as the West is doing); which is the current bs rhetoric. Ukraine is run by authoritarian regime.