[Wooden Spoon]

azul, on 22 February 2022 - 11:11 AM, said:

It has been going on for years already. It is hard to believe that it has been the best part of 8 years since Russia annexed Crimea and invaded the east of Ukraine. Nothing much was done at the time but this latest crisis is quite convenient for number of national leaders. We will wait and how these sanctions bite: hopefully we’ll stop accepting cash from Putin’s enablers. That would be a start.

Still leaning towards the theory it is all a game Putin is playing, one minute angry words, next minute talk of a Biden/Putin summit, next minute angry actions. Hard to believe that the timing of this crisis coinciding with fuel price crisis is just an unfortunate coincidence.

The weather also makes a difference. The spring thaw makes traversing ground with heavy armour more difficult- unless he wanted to wait for summer.


Rather like chamberlain in the 1930s we’re facing a despot who’s gambling on the wests desire to avoid conflict to restore his nation to what he sees as its rightful place in the world.

[Wooden Spoon]

turrhall, on 22 February 2022 - 01:49 PM, said:

lol, I assume you mean he's being expansionist rather than trying to hit the big red "Communism" button.

Yes. That’s what I mean.



Many Russians and Putin most certainly sees the collapse of the Soviet Union and loss of satellite states as a disaster- not that gangsters like Putin and his chums raped the state of its asserts to benefit themselves of course. North Ossetia, Crimea, now this. He’s been doing it for a long time.

Mr Mercury, on 22 February 2022 - 01:54 PM, said:

I would assume he’s doing both

He’s created a dictatorship but not necessarily a red one.

[azul]

Wooden Spoon, on 22 February 2022 - 04:54 PM, said:

He’s created a dictatorship but not necessarily a red one.

Correct, he is a rightwing authoritarian, creating a totalitarian state facilitated by sycophantic oligarchs who stole the Russian peoples wealth and trousered it.

Just have to look at his chums around the world, Orban, Bolsonaro, Trump........

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Had to emit dryly ironic laughter upon hearing ministers talk of a leader with an attitide towards lying as casual as his attitude towards breaking international law.

Members of a party which recieves multi-millions from Kremlin cronies then votes against laundromat London coming under scrutiny.

And led by a bloke who regularly rubs shoulders with oligarchs.

But let's be clear, here - Boris Johnson's moral bankruptcies are merely those of a mischievous schoolboy compared to a monster like Putin.

A man evil by any measure of the term and proving how misplaced use of the word 'despot' against democratically elected politicians really is.

Then whilst there might be intellectual discussions to be had over the hypocrisy of former imperial powers such as ourselves lecturing him about his own ambitions of empire, it's Putin and Putin alone responsible for the current crisis.

Has he been emboldened by the thought of a Trump destabilised NATO? By the chaotic retreat from Kabul? By the West's increasing reliance on his fossil fuels? By Brexit weakening the EU (which rubles convinced some folk was the patriotic thing to do)? By a new German chancellor, Macron facing an election and an global laughing stock in Number Ten?

I'd certainly say so.

But Berlin has led the way in cancelling Nord Stream 2. That'll hurt, but it'll hurt Putin too. The Ukranians have also been as stoic in resisting Russian attempts to goad them, thereby legitimising an invasion, as they have in facing down overwhelming odds.

On the other hand the UK government ought to learn actions speak louder than words. Oh yeah, Bozo's no doubt relishing the opportunity to play Churchill again (not to mention the distraction from police investigations), yet as SKS alluded to what he announced today was the least possible he could've done.

Infact even backbench tories are dubbing then feeble: https://www.msn.com/...ocid=uxbndlbing

https://bylinetimes....rvative-donors/

https://www.msn.com/...down/ar-AAUajeJ

https://www.theguard...KeyEvents=false

[dim view]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 22 February 2022 - 05:33 PM, said:

Infact even backbench tories are dubbing then feeble: https://www.msn.com/...ocid=uxbndlbing

https://bylinetimes....rvative-donors/

https://www.msn.com/...down/ar-AAUajeJ

https://www.theguard...KeyEvents=false

I wonder how much time Rees_Mogg has spent today playing truant from the Commons to move the cash of his Russian baddy customers somewhere where it can't be frozen?

[isleaiw1]

Misnomer, on 22 February 2022 - 04:10 PM, said:

And even more hypocritical to talk about Ukraine as 'democratic' country (as the West is doing); which is the current bs rhetoric. Ukraine is run by authoritarian regime.

So I guess you and @turrhall think its OK then and what are the west whingeing about?

Unless the Ukraine have invited him in to split their country, or have some terrible humanitarian record that means we might prefer someone, anyone else to be in charge, I'd say the elected government is better than one taking over by force, however crap the election may have been...

And as for NI, isnt the reason its still British because trying to integrate it with the Republic would cause more problems than it solved? But apart from the govt we dont really put many restrictions in place to stop that being practically the case..?

But good effort in trying to make Russia look not so bad. Maybe that is another reason why Labour cant win an election as from time to time, communist supporting Labour types ruin their reputation in the eyes of the electorate....

[Wooden Spoon]

turrhall, on 22 February 2022 - 03:27 PM, said:

Obviously I'm not in favour of Russian aggression towards Ukraine, but it seems mighty hypocritical of 'the West' to have it's stance be that invading other countries is bad. Especially in the case of Britain being against Russia holding an enclave within a different country on the grounds of ethnic similarity whilst doing exactly that in NI...

If you really believe that N.I and putins aggression against Ukraine are comparable you need help

This post has been edited by Wooden Spoon: 22 February 2022 - 09:17 PM

[Wooden Spoon]

dim view, on 22 February 2022 - 06:18 PM, said:

I wonder how much time Rees_Mogg has spent today playing truant from the Commons to move the cash of his Russian baddy customers somewhere where it can't be frozen?

He’d have done that last week

[Wooden Spoon]

isleaiw1, on 22 February 2022 - 08:46 PM, said:

So I guess you and @turrhall think its OK then and what are the west whingeing about?

Unless the Ukraine have invited him in to split their country, or have some terrible humanitarian record that means we might prefer someone, anyone else to be in charge, I'd say the elected government is better than one taking over by force, however crap the election may have been...

And as for NI, isnt the reason its still British because trying to integrate it with the Republic would cause more problems than it solved? But apart from the govt we dont really put many restrictions in place to stop that being practically the case..?

But good effort in trying to make Russia look not so bad. Maybe that is another reason why Labour cant win an election as from time to time, communist supporting Labour types ruin their reputation in the eyes of the electorate....

Not sure you can say putins a communist. If anything he’s a nationalist

[isleaiw1]

Wooden Spoon, on 22 February 2022 - 09:20 PM, said:

Not sure you can say putins a communist. If anything he’s a nationalist

I think he represents the communist party, that is enough for me. We all know that the far left and the far right meet somewhere at the extremes, just use different words for same effect....

[Siberian Spireite]

isleaiw1, on 22 February 2022 - 09:48 PM, said:

I think he represents the communist party, that is enough for me. We all know that the far left and the far right meet somewhere at the extremes, just use different words for same effect....

Putin’s party is United Russia. They are not communist- though Putin clearly wants to restore the Soviet Union at least partially, he wouldn’t go as far as claiming to pursue economic equality for all and certainly wouldn’t restore the command economy.

There is still a Communist Party in Russia, which has some seats and is mainly supported by the elderly- it is (like the official opposition) tolerated as part of the facade of democratic choice.
When I was teaching English in Russia, the most selfishly ambitious students would join United Russia as a means of getting their noses into the trough. I suppose you would define United Russia’s ideology as drawing together Russia’s disparate regions into a centralised structure, underlined by myriad patriotic myths (Putin yesterday decried ‘nationalism’ in the Ukraine though Russian nationalism underpins his domestic support).
Also, how you tried to bring Labour into the debate here is ridiculous.

This post has been edited by Siberian Spireite: 22 February 2022 - 10:08 PM

[turrhall]

isleaiw1, on 22 February 2022 - 08:46 PM, said:

So I guess you and @turrhall think its OK then and what are the west whingeing about?

Unless the Ukraine have invited him in to split their country, or have some terrible humanitarian record that means we might prefer someone, anyone else to be in charge, I'd say the elected government is better than one taking over by force, however crap the election may have been...

And as for NI, isnt the reason its still British because trying to integrate it with the Republic would cause more problems than it solved? But apart from the govt we dont really put many restrictions in place to stop that being practically the case..?

But good effort in trying to make Russia look not so bad. Maybe that is another reason why Labour cant win an election as from time to time, communist supporting Labour types ruin their reputation in the eyes of the electorate....

I literally said I was against the Russian aggression, what more do you want from me? Can you not see how other nations would view what Britain says vs what it does as hypocritical though? Imperialism is bad when Russia does it, but "too complex" to sort out when it's NI. Maybe we're just doing the Irish a favour by keeping what is rightfully their land, get a grip please.

This post has been edited by turrhall: 23 February 2022 - 12:06 AM

[turrhall]

isleaiw1, on 22 February 2022 - 09:48 PM, said:

I think he represents the communist party, that is enough for me. We all know that the far left and the far right meet somewhere at the extremes, just use different words for same effect....

An incredibly stupid take yet again - Putin has spent his entire political career since the end of the USSR being a right wing autocrat but apparently that means communism to you because you believe in Horse Shoe Theory - absolute nonsense.

[Wooden Spoon]

turrhall, on 23 February 2022 - 12:06 AM, said:

I literally said I was against the Russian aggression, what more do you want from me? Can you not see how other nations would view what Britain says vs what it does as hypocritical though? Imperialism is bad when Russia does it, but "too complex" to sort out when it's NI. Maybe we're just doing the Irish a favour by keeping what is rightfully their land, get a grip please.

I’m certainly not going to defend what “the British empire” has done in the past - decades and even centuries ago. This is now though.


And it’s not as simple as British occupation doing the Irish a favour is it. What a ridiculous thing to post. You have a unionist community in NI who would resort to violence if stormont was to report to Dublin and not London. It’s a balancing act and one that will take generations to solve




In the last 2 decades we’ve seen the British army mainly removed from NI, check points and watch towers removed, The RUC disbanded and reformed in a much different manner it’s now PSNI.




We have removed all border checks between NI and ROI thanks to the GFA.




And your comparing that to putins aggression against Ukraine? Give your head a wobble mate.

[Wooden Spoon]

Meanwhile back on topic, I see that the BBC is reporting that Donald Trump says putins move is “genius”


“How smart is that” “you gotta say that’s savvy and the response Biden there was no response”



He’s just as insane and dangerous as Putin

[Wooden Spoon]

dim view, on 22 February 2022 - 06:18 PM, said:

I wonder how much time Rees_Mogg has spent today playing truant from the Commons to move the cash of his Russian baddy customers somewhere where it can't be frozen?

I bet loads of dodgy Russian money has been put into crypto currencies, impossible to sanction and can be retrieved any time

[turrhall]

Wooden Spoon, on 23 February 2022 - 12:42 AM, said:

I’m certainly not going to defend what “the British empire” has done in the past - decades and even centuries ago. This is now though.


And it’s not as simple as British occupation doing the Irish a favour is it. What a ridiculous thing to post. You have a unionist community in NI who would resort to violence if stormont was to report to Dublin and not London. It’s a balancing act and one that will take generations to solve




In the last 2 decades we’ve seen the British army mainly removed from NI, check points and watch towers removed, The RUC disbanded and reformed in a much different manner it’s now PSNI.




We have removed all border checks between NI and ROI thanks to the GFA.




And your comparing that to putins aggression against Ukraine? Give your head a wobble mate.

I never said NI was simple to resolve, it is patently an extremely complex situation - your dismissal of *trying* to is hypocritical is my point - also "decades and even centuries ago" - it's happening now! It's ongoing!

Russia and Ukraine have extremely intertwined histories, much like GB and Eire, many Russians have Ukraine relatives and vice versa, much like GB and Eire, a large proportion of Ukrainians are ethically Russian, much like GB and Eire, Russia has ruled over Ukraine, partially or fully, directly or indirectly, at several points in recent history, much like GB and Eire - how exactly are the two situations not comparable? At different stages maybe, but the similarities are there clearly.

This post has been edited by turrhall: 23 February 2022 - 08:09 AM

[Wooden Spoon]

turrhall, on 23 February 2022 - 08:04 AM, said:

I never said NI was simple to resolve, it is patently an extremely complex situation - your dismissal of *trying* to is hypocritical is my point - also "decades and even centuries ago" - it's happening now! It's ongoing!

Russia and Ukraine have extremely intertwined histories, much like GB and Eire, many Russians have Ukraine relatives and vice versa, much like GB and Eire, a large proportion of Ukrainians are ethically Russian, much like GB and Eire, Russia has ruled over Ukraine, partially or fully, directly or indirectly, at several points in recent history, much like GB and Eire - how exactly are the two situations not comparable? At different stages maybe, but the similarities are there clearly.

It’s happening now? What an invasion of NI by British forces?



Mate seriously, have a word with yourself.

[turrhall]

Wooden Spoon, on 23 February 2022 - 08:16 AM, said:

It’s happening now? What an invasion of NI by British forces?



Mate seriously, have a word with yourself.

GB is occupying 6 counties of Ireland - that is happening now. Occupation is not some sort of neutral action.

[azul]

isleaiw1, on 22 February 2022 - 09:48 PM, said:

I think he represents the communist party, that is enough for me. We all know that the far left and the far right meet somewhere at the extremes, just use different words for same effect....

That's just bonkers. That bluddy Trump is a commie too