[ELTON 2020]

"Ok, we're here to stay..." Quote from Planet of the Apes. What I see as key in this debate is having a manager who can do something on a shoestring. Since Paul Cook we've had neither. Saunders was a big time Charlie who blew the budget on crocks. Wilson , in his managerial career has had big budgets.. Sheffield Clubs, Bristol, Swindon, Barnsley etc.... I'm afraid it wouldn't surprise me if he walked away. The way things are going we are going to have to do another Cook, or better. The Accrington, Burton, Rochdale model and maybe even Bury etc... (I can't see their manager having a big pile of cash) and no doubt certain Scottish Prem, league 1 clubs base it on hungry young players, fit players, athletic and physical.I'm not sure we have many of these. The fact that Accy have a far lower budget than ours and turned up with a team could and should have had 6 goals lays this out on the footballing carpet. I think we have to forget Turner etc... when finding out the fundamentals of where we are. What we have to do now is weigh up whether a non-league manager with a proven record at a lower level. i.e. Cook at best, is the route to go down. I fear it is.

[brockwell-spireite]

It's like those old adages about a good goalkeeper being worth 12 points a season to a team..the same goes for managers, I watched Bournemouth last night on match of the day scoring 6 and playing so well and recounted turning them over 2-0 at saltergate..... no matter what the budget .... a good manager gets more than the sum of the parts from his teams by picking up players on the cheap who turn out to be gems, tweaking formations, getting his team fitter than most of their rivals, organisation, strong at set pieces at both end of the fields and instilling belief in the players... all of that is easier written on a message board than done in real life... but when I look at similar size clubs to us that have gone up to the championship it is very frustrating that we seemed to be close to that model and now seem a long way off.

This post has been edited by brockwell-spireite: 16 October 2016 - 09:49 AM

[Guest_freelander2_*]

Elton John 1866, on 16 October 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

"Ok, we're here to stay..." Quote from Planet of the Apes. What I see as key in this debate is having a manager who can do something on a shoestring. Since Paul Cook we've had neither. Saunders was a big time Charlie who blew the budget on crocks. Wilson , in his managerial career has had big budgets.. Sheffield Clubs, Bristol, Swindon, Barnsley etc.... I'm afraid it wouldn't surprise me if he walked away. The way things are going we are going to have to do another Cook, or better. The Accrington, Burton, Rochdale model and maybe even Bury etc... (I can't see their manager having a big pile of cash) and no doubt certain Scottish Prem, league 1 clubs base it on hungry young players, fit players, athletic and physical.I'm not sure we have many of these. The fact that Accy have a far lower budget than ours and turned up with a team could and should have had 6 goals lays this out on the footballing carpet. I think we have to forget Turner etc... when finding out the fundamentals of where we are. What we have to do now is weigh up whether a non-league manager with a proven record at a lower level. i.e. Cook at best, is the route to go down. I fear it is.

1) Cook was backed financially like no other manager in our history. For a club of our size, it was unsustainable and could not continue.

2) Bury are a car crash waiting to happen.

[Westbars Spireite]

freelander2, on 16 October 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

1) Cook was backed financially like no other manager in our history. For a club of our size, it was unsustainable and could not continue.

2) Bury are a car crash waiting to happen.

Too many pieces of bread being dipped into the soup.

[Paragon of Virtue]

Have you seen the kind of players Bury are signing? They're spending plenty

[DIFH]

Elton John 1866, on 16 October 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

"Ok, we're here to stay..." Quote from Planet of the Apes. What I see as key in this debate is having a manager who can do something on a shoestring. Since Paul Cook we've had neither. Saunders was a big time Charlie who blew the budget on crocks. Wilson , in his managerial career has had big budgets.. Sheffield Clubs, Bristol, Swindon, Barnsley etc.... I'm afraid it wouldn't surprise me if he walked away. The way things are going we are going to have to do another Cook, or better. The Accrington, Burton, Rochdale model and maybe even Bury etc... (I can't see their manager having a big pile of cash) and no doubt certain Scottish Prem, league 1 clubs base it on hungry young players, fit players, athletic and physical.I'm not sure we have many of these. The fact that Accy have a far lower budget than ours and turned up with a team could and should have had 6 goals lays this out on the footballing carpet. I think we have to forget Turner etc... when finding out the fundamentals of where we are. What we have to do now is weigh up whether a non-league manager with a proven record at a lower level. i.e. Cook at best, is the route to go down. I fear it is.

If we engage your thread win you respond to our comments.

[ELTON 2020]

Dave In Footie Heaven, on 16 October 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:

If we engage your thread win you respond to our comments.

anytime

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

freelander2, on 16 October 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

1) Cook was backed financially like no other manager in our history. For a club of our size, it was unsustainable and could not continue.

2) Bury are a car crash waiting to happen.

The over spending of cook and the subsequent fire sale
The on going gravy train
Poor financial management
Dean Saunders
An injury list few teams would cope with
Players that aren't good enough
Players that aren't ready
Negativity of everything in and around the club

Danny is the least of our worries he's just the easy target

[ELTON 2020]

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on 16 October 2016 - 10:17 AM, said:

The over spending of cook and the subsequent fire sale
The on going gravy train
Poor financial management
Dean Saunders
An injury list few teams would cope with
Players that aren't good enough
Players that aren't ready
Negativity of everything in and around the club

Danny is the least of our worries he's just the easy target

Who signed them? Just asking

[BlueRover52]

Elton John 1866, on 16 October 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

"Ok, we're here to stay..." Quote from Planet of the Apes. What I see as key in this debate is having a manager who can do something on a shoestring. Since Paul Cook we've had neither. Saunders was a big time Charlie who blew the budget on crocks. Wilson , in his managerial career has had big budgets.. Sheffield Clubs, Bristol, Swindon, Barnsley etc.... I'm afraid it wouldn't surprise me if he walked away. The way things are going we are going to have to do another Cook, or better. The Accrington, Burton, Rochdale model and maybe even Bury etc... (I can't see their manager having a big pile of cash) and no doubt certain Scottish Prem, league 1 clubs base it on hungry young players, fit players, athletic and physical.I'm not sure we have many of these. The fact that Accy have a far lower budget than ours and turned up with a team could and should have had 6 goals lays this out on the footballing carpet. I think we have to forget Turner etc... when finding out the fundamentals of where we are. What we have to do now is weigh up whether a non-league manager with a proven record at a lower level. i.e. Cook at best, is the route to go down. I fear it is.

Unless there is a fundamental way our club is run we're only heading one way.Hopefully we can regroup and recover before we disappear into oblivion.That is the reality of it all.

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

brockwell-spireite, on 16 October 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

It's like those old adages about a good goalkeeper being worth 12 points a season to a team..the same goes for managers, I watched Bournemouth last night on match of the day scoring 6 and playing so well and recounted turning them over 2-0 at saltergate..... no matter what the budget .... a good manager gets more than the sum of the parts from his teams by picking up players on the cheap who turn out to be gems, tweaking formations, getting his team fitter than most of their rivals, organisation, strong at set pieces at both end of the fields and instilling belief in the players... all of that is easier written on a message board than done in real life... but when I look at similar size clubs to us that have gone up to the championship it is very frustrating that we seemed to be close to that model and now seem a long way off.

We were closer than we have been but never close enough to think it might happen. Preston were miles ahead of us. We had a good side but the sides that go up out this league have strength, physicality and power throughout the majority of the team.

[dim view]

Elton John 1866, on 16 October 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

"Ok, we're here to stay..." Quote from Planet of the Apes. What I see as key in this debate is having a manager who can do something on a shoestring. Since Paul Cook we've had neither. Saunders was a big time Charlie who blew the budget on crocks. Wilson , in his managerial career has had big budgets.. Sheffield Clubs, Bristol, Swindon, Barnsley etc.... I'm afraid it wouldn't surprise me if he walked away. The way things are going we are going to have to do another Cook, or better. The Accrington, Burton, Rochdale model and maybe even Bury etc... (I can't see their manager having a big pile of cash) and no doubt certain Scottish Prem, league 1 clubs base it on hungry young players, fit players, athletic and physical.I'm not sure we have many of these. The fact that Accy have a far lower budget than ours and turned up with a team could and should have had 6 goals lays this out on the footballing carpet. I think we have to forget Turner etc... when finding out the fundamentals of where we are. What we have to do now is weigh up whether a non-league manager with a proven record at a lower level. i.e. Cook at best, is the route to go down. I fear it is.

The first thing that's needed is an analysis of the quality of the CEO's at Accrington/Burton/Rochdale.

Some clubs seem to be able to thrive without descending into the murky world of shady agents, dodgy dealings, cover ups, fraud. I suspect they have honesty and hard work at the top of their job spec.

[ELTON 2020]

Ernie Ernie Ernie, on 16 October 2016 - 10:21 AM, said:

We were closer than we have been but never close enough to think it might happen. Preston were miles ahead of us. We had a good side but the sides that go up out this league have strength, physicality and power throughout the majority of the team.

Wouldn't I just love strength and power in our team atm.We seem lightweight. Every other team at this level seems to have it!

This post has been edited by Elton John 1866: 16 October 2016 - 10:27 AM

[Goku]

Elton John 1866, on 16 October 2016 - 10:23 AM, said:

Wouldn't I just love strength and power in our team. We haven't seen any for 20 years. Every other team at this level seems to have it!

Why do you tell such lies

[ELTON 2020]

Goku, on 16 October 2016 - 10:25 AM, said:

Why do you tell such lies

Hi pal - get over your hangover first before you post

[S43_Spireite]

The way I see it is this..............DA went for broke with Cook, throwing large sums of cash at getting us into the Championship, thinking that we would be getting full houses week in week out.........because this didn't happen (and quite frankly he was a little over optimistic) he decided to claw back his money (or rather show those terrible fans)

We are working within a budget set by DA, he has no interest in Football and I don't think he even wanted to be Chairman here, he was cajoled into it...........what we have now is what we will have until Dave has his money back or until someone with mega cash and who is a Chesterfield Supporter, buys him out...........a shoestring Team who yo yo up and down.

The Cook era spoiled us, showed us what we COULD have with lots of investment and now we expect no less, unfortunately those days are now just a memory. In My Opinion of course

[dim view]

S43_Spireite, on 16 October 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

The way I see it is this..............DA went for broke with Cook, throwing large sums of cash at getting us into the Championship, thinking that we would be getting full houses week in week out.........because this didn't happen (and quite frankly he was a little over optimistic) he decided to claw back his money (or rather show those terrible fans)

We are working within a budget set by DA, he has no interest in Football and I don't think he even wanted to be Chairman here, he was cajoled into it...........what we have now is what we will have until Dave has his money back or until someone with mega cash and who is a Chesterfield Supporter, buys him out...........a shoestring Team who yo yo up and down.

The Cook era spoiled us, showed us what we COULD have with lots of investment and now we expect no less, unfortunately those days are now just a memory. In My Opinion of course

There is a myriad of stories some factual, some myths, some allegations, supporting the notion that if PC had been properly managed including being censored where appropriate at a crucial stage in his rise to prominence, then he might still be here doing a great job having knuckled down. Instead, his antics went unpunished and swept under the table by his 'mate'.

[BlueRover52]

S43_Spireite, on 16 October 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

The way I see it is this..............DA went for broke with Cook, throwing large sums of cash at getting us into the Championship, thinking that we would be getting full houses week in week out.........because this didn't happen (and quite frankly he was a little over optimistic) he decided to claw back his money (or rather show those terrible fans)

We are working within a budget set by DA, he has no interest in Football and I don't think he even wanted to be Chairman here, he was cajoled into it...........what we have now is what we will have until Dave has his money back or until someone with mega cash and who is a Chesterfield Supporter, buys him out...........a shoestring Team who yo yo up and down.

The Cook era spoiled us, showed us what we COULD have with lots of investment and now we expect no less, unfortunately those days are now just a memory. In My Opinion of course

Well DA's revised model aint working!Club mismanaged,poor on and off field performances,falling attendances,falling revenue,one hell of a vicious circle!Re-investing in players from the money made in tranfers might,in hindsight,have been the better option.

[ELTON 2020]

dim view, on 16 October 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

There is a myriad of stories some factual, some myths, some allegations, supporting the notion that if PC had been properly managed including being censored where appropriate at a crucial stage in his rise to prominence, then he might still be here doing a great job having knuckled down. Instead, his antics went unpunished and swept under the table by his 'mate'.

Some of us are still in the dark as to what his antics actually were, likewise Sheridan. French whispers?

BlueRover52, on 16 October 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

Well DA's revised model aint working!Club mismanaged,poor on and off field performances,falling attendances,falling revenue,one hell of a vicious circle!Re-investing in players from the money made in tranfers might,in hindsight,have been the better option.

When it comes to Accrington Stanley, who I admire greatly, being able to offer Taylor Fletcher a deal instead of us, the wheels have really come off!!

[Goku]

Elton John 1866, on 16 October 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

Hi pal - get over your hangover first before you post

Didn't go out.

I'm confused as to why u think we've not had any pace or power in last 20 years. Seems like a silly thing to say.