[Search & Destroy]

Goku, on 17 May 2021 - 08:24 AM, said:

Zzzzz

Impressive 👍

[Goku]

Search and Destroy, on 17 May 2021 - 08:59 AM, said:

Impressive 👍

You’d only disappear like you usually do if I’d responded properly 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Search & Destroy]

Goku, on 17 May 2021 - 09:01 AM, said:

You’d only disappear like you usually do if I’d responded properly 🤷🏼‍♂️

Would you be firing rockets into civilian areas?

Or pop on a suicide vest?

This post has been edited by Search and Destroy: 17 May 2021 - 10:34 AM

[fishini]

Search and Destroy, on 17 May 2021 - 10:33 AM, said:

Would you be firing rockets into civilian areas?

Or pop on a suicide vest?

Israel innocent in all these troubles iyo? Or are the Palestine's the only guilty ones?

[Wooden Spoon]

Goku said:

1621239884[/url]' post='1582671']
Zzzzz

Serious question here HB.



We’re you in the same position, and “took up arms” who would you target? Israeli police? Israeli military? Sniping at Israeli border patrols?.......or fire rockets indiscriminately into civilian areas?




BTW, this is in no way an attempt to defend the OTT military response by Israel.

[Search & Destroy]

fishini, on 17 May 2021 - 10:46 AM, said:

Israel innocent in all these troubles iyo? Or are the Palestine's the only guilty ones?

Of course not, but I don’t follow the it’s not a fair fight talk

[Goku]

Search and Destroy, on 17 May 2021 - 10:33 AM, said:

Would you be firing rockets into civilian areas?

Or pop on a suicide vest?

DEATH, on 17 May 2021 - 11:07 AM, said:

Serious question here HB.

We’re you in the same position, and “took up arms” who would you target? Israeli police? Israeli military? Sniping at Israeli border patrols?.......or fire rockets indiscriminately into civilian areas?

BTW, this is in no way an attempt to defend the OTT military response by Israel.

Response to both: there's no way of truly knowing what I or anybody else would do if we've not been in that situation. I can only give my stance as Josh, born in the UK who has lived here all his life, suffering no military turmoil. If I'd seen my family and friends killed, I'd been forcibly moved out of my home and I had no recognised rights combined with potentially a worse education surrounded by people ready to kill and be killed then I've no idea what I'd do or be capable of. All I know is that I'd have to take up arms, as anything else would seem like accepting the situation. That's the most honest answer I can give.

Search and Destroy, on 17 May 2021 - 11:42 AM, said:

Of course not, but I don’t follow the it’s not a fair fight talk

Israel have a fully funded military, Palestine has a militia. Chalk and cheese, surely that's obvious?

[Search & Destroy]

So it means they should be allowed to keep firing missiles with the sole intent of killing as many civilians as possible?

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Search and Destroy, on 17 May 2021 - 07:34 AM, said:

See ISIS (Bradford branch) were out in force in North London yesterday

Calling for the rape of Jewish women on loud hailers

And the usual suspects (Sarah Everard?) “marching for Palestine” (rioting with the police) on Saturday

Yeah, what kinda crank holds every member of a religion responsible for the atrocities of a few.

Errr, hold on a minute...

[fishini]

Search and Destroy, on 17 May 2021 - 02:48 PM, said:

So it means they should be allowed to keep firing missiles with the sole intent of killing as many civilians as possible?

Did you think all the Irish were terrorists as you do with Muslims?

[Wooden Spoon]

Goku, on 17 May 2021 - 02:41 PM, said:

Response to both: there's no way of truly knowing what I or anybody else would do if we've not been in that situation. I can only give my stance as Josh, born in the UK who has lived here all his life, suffering no military turmoil. If I'd seen my family and friends killed, I'd been forcibly moved out of my home and I had no recognised rights combined with potentially a worse education surrounded by people ready to kill and be killed then I've no idea what I'd do or be capable of. All I know is that I'd have to take up arms, as anything else would seem like accepting the situation. That's the most honest answer I can give.



Israel have a fully funded military, Palestine has a militia. Chalk and cheese, surely that's obvious?

Thanks, reasonably well thought out.


Israel are out of order, big time. But so are the Palestinian militia. People get killed in conflicts and that’s a sad fact. I guess the big difference for me is civilians.


By and large military forces try to avoid civilian casualties. Crikey even the PIRA often used to give coded warnings so civilian loss of life was minimised. Not every time for sure and sometimes, I’m thinking Eniskillen, that they also went over and above to ensure civilian deaths.


I don’t see any attempt, and haven’t seen any attempt from hamas since it was founded in 1987 to avoid any civilian casualties.



I get that one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist - but militia don’t have to target civilians - militia can shoot border guards. Do car bombs against military bases. IED against motorised security patrols. And they would still be freedom fighters wouldn’t they.

[Search & Destroy]

fishini, on 17 May 2021 - 04:49 PM, said:

Did you think all the Irish were terrorists as you do with Muslims?

I don’t think all Palestinians are terrorists, I didn’t say they were, Hammas hide in civilian tower blocks, it suits the propaganda when civilians are killed.

[dart in the crossbar]

Surely it's impossible to see wrong on only one side? As with the north of Ireland, the actions of each when they attack strengthen the recruitment prospects and external support of the other as they sufffer. Would it be cynical to suggest that the leadership of both sides are fully aware of this?

I believe that the phrase was something about '...recruiting sargeant...'

[turrhall]

DEATH, on 17 May 2021 - 05:49 PM, said:

Thanks, reasonably well thought out.


Israel are out of order, big time. But so are the Palestinian militia. People get killed in conflicts and that’s a sad fact. I guess the big difference for me is civilians.


By and large military forces try to avoid civilian casualties. Crikey even the PIRA often used to give coded warnings so civilian loss of life was minimised. Not every time for sure and sometimes, I’m thinking Eniskillen, that they also went over and above to ensure civilian deaths.


I don’t see any attempt, and haven’t seen any attempt from hamas since it was founded in 1987 to avoid any civilian casualties.



I get that one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist - but militia don’t have to target civilians - militia can shoot border guards. Do car bombs against military bases. IED against motorised security patrols. And they would still be freedom fighters wouldn’t they.

Stewart Lee has a bit where he describes the IRA as "gentleman bombers" because they gave their warnings, can't believe you are actually saying it to be taken at face value.

On the conflict generally, and Hamas' actions - imagine what an unbelievably desperate situation you'd have to find yourself in to feel the need to fire your shoddy little homemade rockets anywhere in the hope that it would change anything. As a rule, people don't become terrorists/'freedom fighters' for a lark, it's born out of absolute desperation.

[calvin plummers socks]

DEATH, on 17 May 2021 - 05:49 PM, said:

Thanks, reasonably well thought out.


Israel are out of order, big time. But so are the Palestinian militia. People get killed in conflicts and that’s a sad fact. I guess the big difference for me is civilians.


By and large military forces try to avoid civilian casualties. Crikey even the PIRA often used to give coded warnings so civilian loss of life was minimised. Not every time for sure and sometimes, I’m thinking Eniskillen, that they also went over and above to ensure civilian deaths.


I don’t see any attempt, and haven’t seen any attempt from hamas since it was founded in 1987 to avoid any civilian casualties.



I get that one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist - but militia don’t have to target civilians - militia can shoot border guards. Do car bombs against military bases. IED against motorised security patrols. And they would still be freedom fighters wouldn’t they.

The 2. Biggest civilian casualties have been Hiroshima by the US and the bombing of German cities by Bomber Harris -according to my sons history school book!

[Search & Destroy]

turrhall, on 18 May 2021 - 12:43 AM, said:

Stewart Lee has a bit where he describes the IRA as "gentleman bombers" because they gave their warnings, can't believe you are actually saying it to be taken at face value.

On the conflict generally, and Hamas' actions - imagine what an unbelievably desperate situation you'd have to find yourself in to feel the need to fire your shoddy little homemade rockets anywhere in the hope that it would change anything. As a rule, people don't become terrorists/'freedom fighters' for a lark, it's born out of absolute desperation.

Well that’s a stupid , Ill thought out, nonsensical rule then!

This post has been edited by Search and Destroy: 18 May 2021 - 06:03 AM

[fishini]

calvin plummers socks, on 18 May 2021 - 01:12 AM, said:

The 2. Biggest civilian casualties have been Hiroshima by the US and the bombing of German cities by Bomber Harris -according to my sons history school book!

Have you forgotten the estimated 12m civilians murdered by the Germans or the masses murdered by the Japanese in China. Then there was Pol Pot in Cambodia. How many civilians did he kill? Stalin in Russia. Civilians have always paid with their lives wether it is through war, genocide or terrorism etc

[Search & Destroy]

Bomber Harris did well to beat Nagasaki

[fishini]

Search and Destroy, on 18 May 2021 - 08:39 AM, said:

Bomber Harris did well to beat Nagasaki

43000 - 46000 British civilians died in the blitz according to the Imperial War Museum. So the Germans did well to beat Nagasaki

[Wooden Spoon]

turrhall, on 18 May 2021 - 12:43 AM, said:

Stewart Lee has a bit where he describes the IRA as "gentleman bombers" because they gave their warnings, can't believe you are actually saying it to be taken at face value.

On the conflict generally, and Hamas' actions - imagine what an unbelievably desperate situation you'd have to find yourself in to feel the need to fire your shoddy little homemade rockets anywhere in the hope that it would change anything. As a rule, people don't become terrorists/'freedom fighters' for a lark, it's born out of absolute desperation.

That’s not what I said. I’m saying they should be targeting military targets if they want to be freedom fighters/resistance instead of terrorists. Their rockets are based on the old soviet Katyusha.



Nor was I defending Israel - far from it.




As for the the arguments about Harris and Hiroshima - different era, different type of conflict. Try to keep it current. It’s exactly because of the cloud that hangs over events such as Dresden that great efforts are taken to try to avoid targeting and causing civilian casualties. Probably the last war to target civilians was the Yugoslav civil wars. And no thinks positively of those events do they.