[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dim view, on 19 October 2019 - 06:57 AM, said:

Irrelevant for the moment and nobody knows the answer anyway.

Johnson should simply stand up today, ask each MP to search their conscience about the distance they have strayed from their very first thought after hearing the result of the referendum, and sit down.

At which point they could easily ask him about the distance he's strayed from the 'Remain' position he held right up until it became politically advantageous to U-turn.

Or the distance he's so often strayed from the truth.

As for families being better off, every forecast and prediction - including this very government's - tell us we'll all be worse off.

Well, apart from those aiming to profit from currency fluctuations, flogging off the NHS, cutting worker's rights or flooding Britain with sub-standard goods.

Y'know, people like Reece-Mogg, Arron Banks and most others championing crashing out.

And who strangely stopped talking about Brexit bonuses, sunny uplands, hundreds of millions to the health service or having cake and eating it a long, long time ago...


EDIT: terrific read: https://www.msn.com/...ocid=spartandhp

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 19 October 2019 - 10:44 AM

[SpireiteFitzy]

Brexit may or may not be close to been over but it's effects will never be forgotten. It's created a big ugly scar on this society. It's shown just how intolerant people are to others with differing opinions. Whereas once you could sit down and discuss issues like this as adults it's now disintegrated into who can shout the loudest when abusing the opposition. It's made this country an embarrassment.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Wanna borrow me' pen, Boris?

[dart in the crossbar]

ex tory MP asks his PM and ex leader in parliament today

You have refused to say how much brexit will hit the economy for. You've refused to release the projections that you have received. I've heard it said that the chancellor suggests that brexit will hit the economy by 5%. Is this figure correct?

PM 'no' and sits down

some of the people some of the time

[Nerima Spireite]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 19 October 2019 - 02:06 PM, said:

Wanna borrow me' pen, Boris?

It just came to me! Boris’s cunning plan to avoid delivery of the letter...he’s going to write it on an Etch-a-Sketch and rub it out just before it passes hands!

[Wooden Spoon]

SpireiteFitzy, on 19 October 2019 - 11:31 AM, said:

<br />Brexit may or may not be close to been over but it's effects will never be forgotten. It's created a big ugly scar on this society. It's shown just how intolerant people are to others with differing opinions. Whereas once you could sit down and discuss issues like this as adults it's now disintegrated into who can shout the loudest when abusing the opposition. It's made this country an embarrassment.<br />

<br /><br /><br /><br />It's trashed the democratic process, and the public's faith in parliament. The 650 of them are a disgrace and not fir for purpose. I’d sack every single one of the career politicians.

This post has been edited by DEATH: 19 October 2019 - 03:32 PM

[Nerima Spireite]

I know you and I are on opposite sides of the Brexit divide, Death, but it has to be said that the leaders of this country have been an utter disaster - a rogues gallery of incompetent, self-serving fools. Let us not ever forget that it was currently book-peddling Etonian buffoon Cameron who started this whole sorry mess. And for what? In an effort to quell the Eurosceptic faction of his party “once and for all”!! Then along comes bumbling May (who herself was against Brexit initially) after that trollop and instead of building bridges and sorting out an immensely important people’s decision (lets leave the argument over fairness in the campaign to one side here) pandered to those same Eurosceptics and sowed the seeds of more division and, ultimately, this total mess in Parliament. And now Bonking Boris, who has seeded his Cabinet with yet further rabid anti-Euros and put his unelected conniving chum in charge of policy (probably cause he ain’t got the attention span for it himself) and used extreme partisan rhetoric and lies and made the divide a gaping crevasse so no consensus can possibly be reached, further compounding the impossibility of passing any deal by effectively sacking some of his party members. And it’s not just theTories - if Labour had almost anyone else but hopelessly uncharismatic wannabe PM (but can’t be because he’s a dithering dinosaur who is fixed on a stranglehold of his own party) Corbyn - we might have got somewhere better. And all this burning up valuable time that needs to be spent saving jobs, justice, the welfare of society among a myriad of other pressing issues made far worse by all this, and IMO the vital issue of our time, trying to save the planet.

I’m lost for words (having used them all up here).

[Mr Mercury]

It's just delay after delay after delay...

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Kinda sums things up: https://www.msn.com/...ocid=spartandhp

[Nerima Spireite]

Mr Mercury, on 19 October 2019 - 04:13 PM, said:

It's just delay after delay after delay...

You’ll have to put your bunting away a bit longer 😉

[AllTownArentWe]

Misnomer, on 17 October 2019 - 03:52 PM, said:

Firm supporter of what? Every aspect of the leave argument has been proven to be lies.

The only lie here is your post. I dont want to be apart of a huge, bureaucratic mess that infringes upon our institutions. If the other EU countries do, then fine. But we as a nation voted leave and the fact that we havent left yet is an affront to democracy.

This post has been edited by AllTownArentWe: 19 October 2019 - 04:41 PM

[Wooden Spoon]

Nerima Spireite, on 19 October 2019 - 04:09 PM, said:

<br />I know you and I are on opposite sides of the Brexit divide, Death, but it has to be said that the leaders of this country have been an utter disaster - a rogues gallery of incompetent, self-serving fools. Let us not ever forget that it was currently book-peddling Etonian buffoon Cameron who started this whole sorry mess. And for what? In an effort to quell the Eurosceptic faction of his party "once and for all"!! Then along comes bumbling May (who herself was against Brexit initially) after that trollop and instead of building bridges and sorting out an immensely important people's decision (lets leave the argument over fairness in the campaign to one side here) pandered to those same Eurosceptics and sowed the seeds of more division and, ultimately, this total mess in Parliament. And now Bonking Boris, who has seeded his Cabinet with yet further rabid anti-Euros and put his unelected conniving chum in charge of policy (probably cause he ain't got the attention span for it himself) and used extreme partisan rhetoric and lies and made the divide a gaping crevasse so no consensus can possibly be reached, further compounding the impossibility of passing any deal by effectively sacking some of his party members. And it's not just theTories - if Labour had almost anyone else but hopelessly uncharismatic wannabe PM (but can't be because he's a dithering dinosaur who is fixed on a stranglehold of his own party) Corbyn - we might have got somewhere better. And all this burning up valuable time that needs to be spent saving jobs, justice, the welfare of society among a myriad of other pressing issues made far worse by all this, and IMO the vital issue of our time, trying to save the planet.<br /><br />I'm lost for words (having used them all up here).<br />

Both major parties committed to honouring the result of the referendum. They have had sitting after sitting, vote after vote after vote and come up with nothing. All they have done is serve their own interests and ignore the will of the people. Sack the lot of them.

[Mr Mercury]

Nerima Spireite, on 19 October 2019 - 04:26 PM, said:

You’ll have to put your bunting away a bit longer 😉

What I'd want is a general election with a Tory Brexit party pact to win a majority mandate then leave with no deal. Then I might put the flags up.

[fishini]

Will the people be better off under a no deal than they are now? In your opinion

[Mr Mercury]

fishini, on 19 October 2019 - 05:40 PM, said:

Will the people be better off under a no deal than they are now? In your opinion

I don't know. But it's my choice to vote leave, which I did do and other people's choice to vote remain if they wish.

[Nerima Spireite]

Mr Mercury, on 19 October 2019 - 05:32 PM, said:

What I'd want is a general election with a Tory Brexit party pact to win a majority mandate then leave with no deal. Then I might put the flags up.

Could you tell me what you’ve got against the EU? (apologies if you’ve covered this before) Your avatar gives your allegiance away somewhat (but don’t forget Freddie, though Queen’s English, was from Zanzibar☺️)

And I’d like Death’s view on the same topic...again, I know you said before you’ve made it clear in previous posts, but just a concise summary.

Genuinely interested in both your views

This post has been edited by Nerima Spireite: 19 October 2019 - 05:53 PM

[Mr Mercury]

Nerima Spireite, on 19 October 2019 - 05:50 PM, said:

Could you tell me what you’ve got against the EU? (apologies if you’ve covered this before) Your avatar gives your allegiance away somewhat (but don’t forget Freddie, though Queen’s English, was from Zanzibar☺️)

And I’d like Death’s view on the same topic...again, I know you said before you’ve made it clear in previous posts, but just a concise summary.

Genuinely interested in both your views

To be honest if you read my posts you'll see that my stance is not so much anti EU but now more anti Parliment and MPs, if we'd have voted to stay then so be it, no big deal. I voted to leave because I thought we'd be better off on a world stage at our own devices, but it was no massive sway in my life, In fact I'd never really given any thought to leaving until Cameron decided to have a vote. But now we've voted to leave it must be honoured, you cannot live in a democracy then try and change the result because those that lost shout the loudest. At every turn you see pompous self appointed people telling us that the leave voters have no idea what they're on about, that we're closet racists that we're ill educated thugs. Regardless of our vote they going to do their very best to stop the result.
Most of the anger now being directed is from leave voters not against the EU but MPs who have blatantly ignored the will of their own constituents in many cases, some MPs leaving parties yet still having the gall to stand under a different banner and not have a by election yet at the same time calling for a people's vote.
You've got the Lib dem leader actually openly campaigning to stop Brexit altogether regardless of the 52% who voted for it, the Scottish Nationals, who lost a once in a lifetime, yeah right! Vote to leave the UK and therefore should accept the result of the Brexit vote, openly calling for another Nationalist vote for the Scots. What do we do, keep voting until they all get the result they want..
Like I've said I've no real grief with the EU, I'm not anti EU, it probably won't make much difference in the long run whether we stay or leave, I honestly don't know, my anger now is directed at those who attempt to stifle what people voted for and blatantly try everything to prevent Brexit happening.
That's my honest and trueful answer.

[Mr Mercury]

Nerima Spireite, on 19 October 2019 - 05:50 PM, said:

Could you tell me what you’ve got against the EU? (apologies if you’ve covered this before) Your avatar gives your allegiance away somewhat (but don’t forget Freddie, though Queen’s English, was from Zanzibar☺️)

And I’d like Death’s view on the same topic...again, I know you said before you’ve made it clear in previous posts, but just a concise summary.

Genuinely interested in both your views

Also just to add my avatar is because I'm a lifelong Queen fan and it's more about Freddie than the Union Jack, it's not meant to show me as a raving Nationalist. There also no need to point out Freddie was an immigrant, because I'm not anti immigration for those that need genuine asylum or help or can indeed help our society then welcome, but not the open door policy that allows thousands in for nothing more than handouts.
Again these are my honest views.

[Tylerdurdencfc]

Nerima Spireite, on 19 October 2019 - 05:50 PM, said:

Could you tell me what you’ve got against the EU? (apologies if you’ve covered this before) Your avatar gives your allegiance away somewhat (but don’t forget Freddie, though Queen’s English, was from Zanzibar☺️)

And I’d like Death’s view on the same topic...again, I know you said before you’ve made it clear in previous posts, but just a concise summary.

Genuinely interested in both your views

I'll say why I don't like it.

We are controlled by unelected bureaucrats that can technically overrule our own elected government, being paid hundreds of thousands of pounds of our taxpayers money.

We are propping up many countries finances throughout Euro, the U.K. Has a net contribution in 2018 at £9billion, £9 billion, £9billion. We are funding the majority of development of most others countries in the EU whilst we can't afford to fund our own. Many people are using food banks, hospitals are unequiped, schools have faced funding shortages ( and before anyone says its the governments fault for all the cuts since 2010, anyone with half a brain knows you have to balance the books when incompetent idiots have been blowing the budget and setting the highest borrowing levels the U.K have ever previously had). The government have had to restore order to the finances and as a result the economy is growing hence why this year we have had to increase our EU contribution from £14.5 billion to £17.1 billion whilst the rest of the EU is crumbling, Italy in crisis, Greece bankrupt, Portugal on the brink etc.

https://www.telegrap...ar-uks-booming/

https://fullfact.org...fee-55-million/

I can see benefits to being in the EU such as sharing data on terrorists etc, but think being out outweighs the benefits we receive.

I like how people go on about tell us what benefits being out the eu brings etc but can someone please tell me how we are better off staying in?

I asked that previously on another thread but no one answered.

I also want to know all the doomongers saying it will blow the eceonomy...on what evidence? Someone's say so, experts that have previously got it wrong on so many occasions.

What happens if we remain and the EU collapses? Let's have a doomongering scare story on that one.

[Wooden Spoon]

Nerima Spireite, on 19 October 2019 - 05:50 PM, said:

<br />Could you tell me what you've got against the EU? (apologies if you've covered this before) Your avatar gives your allegiance away somewhat (but don't forget Freddie, though Queen's English, was from Zanzibar☺️)<br /><br />And I'd like Death's view on the same topic...again, I know you said before you've made it clear in previous posts, but just a concise summary.<br /><br />Genuinely interested in both your views<br />

In the next round of EU votes, should we still be in the EU who should I vote for? Which party has policies I like? Which leader do I feel is the most capable. Which party represents my own views most?













Answer. None. You don’t vote for a party, you don’t vote for a government, you don’t vote for leaders. You vote for nothing because the EU doesn’t allow you to elect your own leaders. A fundamental right that has been fought for and hard won over centuries and took generations to achieve. Replaced by a commission that rules by decree and is appointed and not elected.












They treat people’s Democratic rights with contempt. Ireland had a referendum - the swedes had a referendum, the french and because the result wasn’t what was wanted, they either had another, or used obscure legislation (in France) to ratify.













It’s not undemocratic, it’s anti democratic.