[The Earl of Chesterfield]

So let's try and unpack this.

Most importantly Assad is gone. And the scenes of popular relief, unbelievable luxury at his personal disposal and, more sickeningly, prisoners young and old being released from sentences sometimes imposed for merely displeasing the dictator, are in keeping with those so often witnessed when despots are deposed.

No one should shed the slightest tear for this murdering beast.

What's more it's an humiliating defeat for both Putin and Iran. Neither able to sustain support in the face of wider committments. To the point of being forced to abandon their puppet and do deals with the Turkish backed rebels.

A fact that won't go unnoticed in capitols around the globe.

But what of the new regime. Well, they're former associates of al Qaeda, however their leader, Abu Mohammed al Jolani, has sought to legitimise his collection of Islamist militants - still designated terrorists by many governments - over recent years. Renouncing jihadism, distancing himself from ISIS and embracing a more prosaic leadership role.

Though the Taliban offered similar assurances prior to returning Afghanistan to the middle ages.

There has been a peaceful transition of power thus far, though. There is talk of tolerance. There has been an amnesty for Assad's foot soldiers. There is at least the hope Syria may, at some point, rejoin the international community.

A nation to which asylum seekers return rather from where they flee.

Sadly, history suggests otherwise. It's doom laden pages instead inform of factionalism and internal power struggles resulting in yet more slaughter and misery. One tyrant replaced by another, perhaps quoting ancient scripture to underpin his brutal oppressions.

The world waits...

[Johnnyspireite7]

Hasn't the orange buffoon already said he's not interested in Syria cos all the oil's gone.

[Mr Mercury]

Johnnyspireite7, on 09 December 2024 - 08:36 PM, said:

Hasn't the orange buffoon already said he's not interested in Syria cos all the oil's gone.

Strange how the Western World, and NATO members, will hope the Orange buffoon still keeps bankrolling our safety.

[tafka mr. smith]

Mr Mercury, on 09 December 2024 - 08:48 PM, said:

Strange how the Western World, and NATO members, will hope the Orange buffoon still keeps bankrolling our safety.

& he will as nato gives the usa greater legitimancy in its actions & also allows them to fight wars by proxy in europe (as they used to say ww1 & ww2 were fought in europe & they intent ww3 to be fought there)

[Mr Mercury]

tafka mr. smith, on 09 December 2024 - 09:10 PM, said:

& he will as nato gives the usa greater legitimancy in its actions & also allows them to fight wars by proxy in europe (as they used to say ww1 & ww2 were fought in europe & they intent ww3 to be fought there)

Disagree, the NATO nations shockingly underfund compared to the US, you?ve only got to look at Starmers complete lack of comment in his mission statement borefest the other day. Trump sees the other NATO members, particularly Western Europe , not necessarily the Eastern Europe and Scandinavian members, who have first hand experience of Russian brutality, for what they are, US coat tail hangers.

[tafka mr. smith]

Mr Mercury, on 09 December 2024 - 09:15 PM, said:

Disagree, the NATO nations shockingly underfund compared to the US, you?ve only got to look at Starmers complete lack of comment in his mission statement borefest the other day. Trump sees the other NATO members, particularly Western Europe , not necessarily the Eastern Europe and Scandinavian members, who have first hand experience of Russian brutality, for what they are, US coat tail hangers.

labour has commited to 2.5% of gdp to be spent on defence same as the tories pre election.
nato countries commit to at least 2% & last figures available show only croatia canada italy portugal spain slovenia & belgium below that (iceland has no armed forces).
nato countries combined defence spending is over half the worlds military spending. usa may have the biggest budget but a lot of their spending isnt in europe.

[Mr Mercury]

tafka mr. smith, on 09 December 2024 - 09:59 PM, said:

labour has commited to 2.5% of gdp to be spent on defence same as the tories pre election.
nato countries commit to at least 2% & last figures available show only croatia canada italy portugal spain slovenia & belgium below that (iceland has no armed forces).
nato countries combined defence spending is over half the worlds military spending. usa may have the biggest budget but a lot of their spending isnt in europe.

When as Labour committed it, dates? Trump is well aware the rest of NATO hangs on their coat tails, quite simply without the US, aka Trump, NATO is a busted flush.

[jonnythespireite]

Mr Mercury, on 09 December 2024 - 10:45 PM, said:

When as Labour committed it, dates? Trump is well aware the rest of NATO hangs on their coat tails, quite simply without the US, aka Trump, NATO is a busted flush.

https://lordslibrary...-of-gdp-target/
There you go. Keep up.

[Mr Mercury]

jonnythespireite, on 09 December 2024 - 10:54 PM, said:

https://lordslibrary...-of-gdp-target/
There you go. Keep up.

Sorry I was expecting our pm to make more of it in his recent drone along, I gather he wasn?t as assured.
Anyway..?11m to Syria or to our pensioners? I?ll go with to our pensioners.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Why has what I hoped would be a discussion about the evolving situation in Syria turned into another mindlessly anti Labour, anti Europe, anti NATO (?!?) and pro Trump sneer session....?

[Mr Mercury]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 10 December 2024 - 06:28 AM, said:

Why has what I hoped would be a discussion about the evolving situation in Syria turned into another mindlessly anti Labour, anti Europe, anti NATO (?!?) and pro Trump sneer session....?

I thought the first reply was a Trump sneer, I was offering an alternative view. And anti NATO, where?

This post has been edited by Mr Mercury: 10 December 2024 - 07:20 AM

[Mr Mercury]

Anyway back to the subject matter, is it a pertinent question to ask what our pm?s very close friend and multi times Labour backer, Lord Alli was discussing during his visits and meetings with Assad, does this put our embattled pm in another awkward position?

This post has been edited by Mr Mercury: 10 December 2024 - 08:55 AM

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Mr Mercury, on 10 December 2024 - 07:17 AM, said:

I thought the first reply was a Trump sneer, I was offering an alternative view. And anti NATO, where?

"NATO is a busted flush".

Or are you now even gonna deny your own words four posts earlier.

And that's the same NATO joined by Sweden and Finland only this year. The same NATO the Ukraine, potentially to be sold out by the Trump you're now championing despite everything you said on the Putin topic, is also desperate to join. The same NATO which has been 'bankrolled' by every US administration - Trump doesn't spend a single cent doing so personally - since it's creation (under a Labour government, by the way).

The same NATO which has successfully faced down the Russian threat for seventy years.

Let's remember UK defence spending was two point five percent of GDP under Labour before being cut by the Tories you spent several years endorsing, too.

But I'm sure you'll respond with predictably playground 'I'm not listening and I don't care' evasions before once again perverting the thread onto another much chucking exercise. Predictably cheered on in an equally playground manner, no doubt. So I'll leave you and them to it and engage only with folk interested in evidence based adult debate regarding the titled issue...

[Mr Mercury]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 10 December 2024 - 09:34 AM, said:

"NATO is a busted flush".

Or are you now even gonna deny your own words four posts earlier.

And that's the same NATO joined by Sweden and Finland only this year. The same NATO the Ukraine, potentially to be sold out by the Trump you're now championing despite everything you said on the Putin topic, is also desperate to join. The same NATO which has been 'bankrolled' by every US administration - Trump doesn't spend a single cent doing so personally - since it's creation (under a Labour government, by the way).

The same NATO which has successfully faced down the Russian threat for seventy years.

Let's remember UK defence spending was two point five percent of GDP under Labour before being cut by the Tories you spent several years endorsing, too.

But I'm sure you'll respond with predictably playground 'I'm not listening and I don't care' evasions before once again perverting the thread onto another much chucking exercise. Predictably cheered on in an equally playground manner, no doubt. So I'll leave you and them to it and engage only with folk interested in evidence based adult debate regarding the titled issue...

Get the full quote right before you start the sneer fest.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Mr Mercury, on 10 December 2024 - 09:38 AM, said:

Get the full quote right before you start the sneer fest.

"Trump is well aware the rest of NATO hangs on their coat tails, quite simply, without the US, AKA Trump, NATO is a busted flush".

A clear attempt to discredit NATO whilst celebrating Trump.

My comments stand...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 10 December 2024 - 09:58 AM

[Mr Mercury]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 10 December 2024 - 09:57 AM, said:

"Trump is well aware the rest of NATO hangs on their coat tails, quite simply, without the US, AKA Trump, NATO is a busted flush".

A clear attempt to discredit NATO whilst celebrating Trump.

My comments stand...

No it?s not a clear attempt to discredit NATO, you do have a habit of twisting things to suit your sneers.
Its saying that NATO would be severely weakened with out the US, Trump knows this, I?d imagine previous US leaders knew it, the rest of NATO knows this, and I dare say you know it, but as usual, it the usual sneer fest when people have a different opinion.
And my comments stand.

This post has been edited by Mr Mercury: 10 December 2024 - 10:03 AM

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

But they don't do they.

Because you're now trying to re-write them.

And whilst every president is aware of the US's overwhelming contribution to NATO, only the Trump you champion has threatened to withdraw it. To the point of endorsing Putin invading any countries not meeting his percentage.

Then there's his apparent readiness to abandon Ukraine. Not to mention my point about your Tories cutting the two point five percent Labour met.

In fact it'll probably be best if you finally start talking about Syria, as these desperate attempts to crowbar anti Labour and pro Trump prejudices into the topic are making you look silly...

[Mr Mercury]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 10 December 2024 - 11:36 AM, said:

But they don't do they.

Because you're now trying to re-write them.

And whilst every president is aware of the US's overwhelming contribution to NATO, only the Trump you champion has threatened to withdraw it. To the point of endorsing Putin invading any countries not meeting his percentage.

Then there's his apparent readiness to abandon Ukraine. Not to mention my point about your Tories cutting the two point five percent Labour met.

In fact it'll probably be best if you finally start talking about Syria, as these desperate attempts to crowbar anti Labour and pro Trump prejudices into the topic are making you look silly...

Yes they do, I?ve never discredited NATO, just pointed out they?ll be dramatically reduced as a force without the US. Yes Trump has threatened to withdraw in the past, maybe as a bargaining tool to get a higher input from other contributors.
His apparent readiness to abandon Ukraine?, let?s wait and see shall we.
And I?m making myself look silly?, who to, you? I?ll survive.
Oh and regarding attempting to crowbar one’s political prejudices into any topic, well you know all about that, don’t you?

This post has been edited by Mr Mercury: 10 December 2024 - 11:50 AM

[calvin plummers socks]

Mr Mercury, on 10 December 2024 - 11:42 AM, said:

Yes they do, I?ve never discredited NATO, just pointed out they?ll be dramatically reduced as a force without the US. Yes Trump has threatened to withdraw in the past, maybe as a bargaining tool to get a higher input from other contributors.
His apparent readiness to abandon Ukraine?, let?s wait and see shall we.
And I?m making myself look silly?, who to, you? I?ll survive.
Oh and regarding attempting to crowbar one?s political prejudices into any topic, well you know all about that, don?t you?

?Unemployed bloke in North Derbyshire says he never discredited NATO?

New York Timea headline 11/12/24

[s42blue]

calvin plummers socks, on 10 December 2024 - 12:12 PM, said:

?Unemployed bloke in North Derbyshire says he never discredited NATO?

New York Timea headline 11/12/24

Physio bloke in London makes spelling and syntax error

Derbyshire Times Headline 12.12.24