[stevie_b]

isleaiw1, on 07 May 2021 - 08:50 AM, said:

Any good reason or heart over head? They have been humiliated in Hartlepool, seem to be losing seats in the local elections, and that against probably the most morally bankrupt PM in living memory.....

So what do you think will save them? Apart for Boris being Boris of course... or Gove taking over...!

Well, they could start by taking the concerns of women seriously. The pandering to the alarming rise in transgender ideology – and calling women like me bigots when we dare to say that we don't welcome male people into our private spaces or sport - is potentially alienating 50% of their target market.

I'm fairly tough as a woman goes. I mean, I'm still on here, aren't I? But .... I found it fairly disconcerting at the snooker on Sunday when I discovered that the female toilets had become unisex for the evening. I get that the audience was probably 80% male but ..... I felt quite out of place surrounded by men in what should be a female space.

I've stated before - and it remains my truth - that I have no issue at all with transgender people. However, a transgender woman is male; you cannot change your biological sex, no matter what you cut off or what hormones you take. I'd happily be bezzie mates with a transgender woman but ... I do NOT welcome her into my female spaces, neither do I wish to come up against her in the front row of a female rugby scrum. The same goes for you guys, too. Men often have absolutely no concept of how much stronger and scarier than women they are.

Labour is doing little to dissuade men being considered women, simply because they say they are. And lots to make those of us who object feel like we're evil and exclusionary for doing so.

They're not listening to women and that is my reason for not voting Labour right now

This post has been edited by stevie_b: 07 May 2021 - 01:20 PM

[Goku]

stevie_b, on 07 May 2021 - 01:19 PM, said:

Well, they could start by taking the concerns of women seriously. The pandering to the alarming rise in transgender ideology – and calling women like me bigots when we dare to say that we don't welcome male people into our private spaces or sport - is potentially alienating 50% of their target market.

I'm fairly tough as a woman goes. I mean, I'm still on here, aren't I? But .... I found it fairly disconcerting at the snooker on Sunday when I discovered that the female toilets had become unisex for the evening. I get that the audience was probably 80% male but ..... I felt quite out of place surrounded by men in what should be a female space.

I've stated before - and it remains my truth - that I have no issue at all with transgender people. However, a transgender woman is male; you cannot change your biological sex, no matter what you cut off or what hormones you take. I'd happily be bezzie mates with a transgender woman but ... I do NOT welcome her into my female spaces, neither do I wish to come up against her in the front row of a female rugby scrum. The same goes for you guys, too. Men often have absolutely no concept of how much stronger and scarier than women they are.

Labour is doing little to dissuade men being considered women, simply because they say they are. And lots to make those of us who object feel like we're evil and exclusionary for doing so.

They're not listening to women and that is my reason for not voting Labour right now

That is what put me off voting for Lisa Nandy to be Labour Leader. It was a toss up between her and Keir but I really liked the cut of her jib... but then she opened her mouth about transgenderism and I was put off. She seems to be a really good MP but I do not agree with pretending that black is white.

[stevie_b]

Goku, on 07 May 2021 - 01:28 PM, said:

That is what put me off voting for Lisa Nandy to be Labour Leader. It was a toss up between her and Keir but I really liked the cut of her jib... but then she opened her mouth about transgenderism and I was put off. She seems to be a really good MP but I do not agree with pretending that black is white.

Thank you. For listening

[dtp]

Anyway, when Captain Hindsight displays his leadership skills by giving his opinion, after everyone else has had a go, and gets round to saying summat all will be resolved.

[azul]

stevie_b, on 07 May 2021 - 01:19 PM, said:

Well, they could start by taking the concerns of women seriously. The pandering to the alarming rise in transgender ideology – and calling women like me bigots when we dare to say that we don't welcome male people into our private spaces or sport - is potentially alienating 50% of their target market.

I'm fairly tough as a woman goes. I mean, I'm still on here, aren't I? But .... I found it fairly disconcerting at the snooker on Sunday when I discovered that the female toilets had become unisex for the evening. I get that the audience was probably 80% male but ..... I felt quite out of place surrounded by men in what should be a female space.

I've stated before - and it remains my truth - that I have no issue at all with transgender people. However, a transgender woman is male; you cannot change your biological sex, no matter what you cut off or what hormones you take. I'd happily be bezzie mates with a transgender woman but ... I do NOT welcome her into my female spaces, neither do I wish to come up against her in the front row of a female rugby scrum. The same goes for you guys, too. Men often have absolutely no concept of how much stronger and scarier than women they are.

Labour is doing little to dissuade men being considered women, simply because they say they are. And lots to make those of us who object feel like we're evil and exclusionary for doing so.

They're not listening to women and that is my reason for not voting Labour right now

It doesn’t stop there.

I was watching the Repair Shop and someone brought in his teddy bear who happened to be converting from female to male (not the bear, the owner) - I thought blimey how does that work - what next

PS: The conversion seem to be taking place in his 20s

This post has been edited by azul: 07 May 2021 - 02:17 PM

[isleaiw1]

I see the Union leaders are saying Labour were not radical enough, not socialist enough, to win Hartlepool. Think they miss the point. Most people voting dont want radical socialism, they want a govt that makes them a bit better off than they were, looks after those that cant, and listens to what normal people say.....

Guess they will be looking to oust SKS (well McCluskey says he doesnt speak to him and the CWU union are saying similar and they supported Long-Bailey) so we can have a lurch further left and it will be a choice between the Tories and the Lib Dems a while longer....

[azul]

isleaiw1, on 07 May 2021 - 01:50 PM, said:

I see the Union leaders are saying Labour were not radical enough, not socialist enough, to win Hartlepool. Think they miss the point. Most people voting dont want radical socialism, they want a govt that makes them a bit better off than they were, looks after those that cant, and listens to what normal people say.....

Guess they will be looking to oust SKS (well McCluskey says he doesnt speak to him and the CWU union are saying similar and they supported Long-Bailey) so we can have a lurch further left and it will be a choice between the Tories and the Lib Dems a while longer....

Interesting that a Blairite peer is demanding he goes - not just the usual suspects

[isleaiw1]

azul, on 07 May 2021 - 01:52 PM, said:

Interesting that a Blairite peer is demanding he goes - not just the usual suspects

as the press report said, Labour will now spend a couple of years in fighting instead of appealing to the electorate. If only Momentum had formed their own left party and not taken over the New Labour left by Blair, they might still be an option....

[stevie_b]

azul, on 07 May 2021 - 01:47 PM, said:

It doesn’t stop there.

I was watching the Repair Shop and someone brought in his teddy bear who happened to be converting from female to male (not the bear, the owner) - I thought blimey how does that work - what next

I'll tell you how that sometimes works. You get a little girl, let's take me as an example, who doesn't quite conform to accepted gender stereotypes. She's not especially pretty, not too fond of princess style stuff and begs her dad for a football season ticket, rather than dancing lessons. What did my parents do? Well, er nothing. Dad bought me a football season ticket and forty years later, I'm still here. My dad has a lot to answer for but .... that's another story. Today the parents would consult Mermaids, who would advise that their beloved daughter was, in fact, a boy. They would then recommend binding her breasts and pumping her full of puberty blockers in order to make her a boy, which simply isn't possible. There but for the grace of God, in my case.

On any given day, I still don't conform to gender stereotypes. I shave my head. I wear DMs. I still go down the footie. And the snooker. And at other times, I dig by long hair out of the cupboard and pop on a frock, makeup and my Kurt Geigers. No matter which day it is ..... I AM A WOMAN: absolutely and unequivocally.

If anyone is interested in the absolute tragedy that is transitioning children, then please Google Keira Bell and read her story.

For your daughters and their daughters after them, please stand against this.

[azul]

isleaiw1, on 07 May 2021 - 01:55 PM, said:

as the press report said, Labour will now spend a couple of years in fighting instead of appealing to the electorate. If only Momentum had formed their own left party and not taken over the New Labour left by Blair, they might still be an option....

It will be interesting to see what happens, I don’t think the left of the party is as strong as you are suggesting. It is common after an election defeat for each side to take the lessons they want, theright will blame Corbyn’s cronies and left will blame Starmer’s lack of policy. In hindsight, I wish I hadn’t voted for him - he’d be better in the higher echelon of the party, Shadow Home Secretary of something.

Is it too late for Andy Burnham to make a comeback. Mayor of Manchester is a big job but it is a bit of a sideshow, although he did get under Bozo’s skin

[Spire-ite]

azul, on 07 May 2021 - 02:14 PM, said:

It will be interesting to see what happens, I don’t think the left of the party is as strong as you are suggesting. It is common after an election defeat for each side to take the lessons they want, theright will blame Corbyn’s cronies and left will blame Starmer’s lack of policy. In hindsight, I wish I hadn’t voted for him - he’d be better in the higher echelon of the party, Shadow Home Secretary of something.

Is it too late for Andy Burnham to make a comeback. Mayor of Manchester is a big job but it is a bit of a sideshow, although he did get under Bozo’s skin

If David Miliband and Andy Burnham would go back, Labour would have a credible chance. Without, no chance.

[Wooden Spoon]

stevie_b, on 07 May 2021 - 01:19 PM, said:

Well, they could start by taking the concerns of women seriously. The pandering to the alarming rise in transgender ideology – and calling women like me bigots when we dare to say that we don't welcome male people into our private spaces or sport - is potentially alienating 50% of their target market.

I'm fairly tough as a woman goes. I mean, I'm still on here, aren't I? But .... I found it fairly disconcerting at the snooker on Sunday when I discovered that the female toilets had become unisex for the evening. I get that the audience was probably 80% male but ..... I felt quite out of place surrounded by men in what should be a female space.

I've stated before - and it remains my truth - that I have no issue at all with transgender people. However, a transgender woman is male; you cannot change your biological sex, no matter what you cut off or what hormones you take. I'd happily be bezzie mates with a transgender woman but ... I do NOT welcome her into my female spaces, neither do I wish to come up against her in the front row of a female rugby scrum. The same goes for you guys, too. Men often have absolutely no concept of how much stronger and scarier than women they are.

Labour is doing little to dissuade men being considered women, simply because they say they are. And lots to make those of us who object feel like we're evil and exclusionary for doing so.

They're not listening to women and that is my reason for not voting Labour right now

Great post.



A biological male who identifies as a female is not the same as a biological female

[Mr Mercury]

isleaiw1, on 07 May 2021 - 01:50 PM, said:

I see the Union leaders are saying Labour were not radical enough, not socialist enough, to win Hartlepool. Think they miss the point. Most people voting dont want radical socialism, they want a govt that makes them a bit better off than they were, looks after those that cant, and listens to what normal people say.....

Guess they will be looking to oust SKS (well McCluskey says he doesnt speak to him and the CWU union are saying similar and they supported Long-Bailey) so we can have a lurch further left and it will be a choice between the Tories and the Lib Dems a while longer....

“The end of Labour”?
Depends who the Dr looking after the patient is of course!
Dr Diane Abbott, remember her, says “Labour won’t seat twice under Corbyn, so it’s not possible to blame Jeremy”, completely failing to acknowledge that he only won due to a large split between Tory and The Brexit Party, and also he lost dozens of previously safe Labour seats as well. And this clown would have been Home Secretary if Labour had won last time. Unbelievable.
Dr Richard Burgon, another blast from the Corbyn past, says”Labours leadership needs to change direction, it should start by championing the popular policies in our recent manifesto” yep that went down well didn’t it? All we were missing was a free unicorn. Again, completely delusional.
Emergency resuscitation Team, Momentum’s spokesperson “SKS as taken the party backwards”
Chief Surgeon, Len McCluskey says “He can go back to the very issues he was elected to lead the party on, which were radical policies” ..again completely missing the point why millions of Labour voters have left and its starting to look like it was a hell of a lot more than Brexit.
If the above team of medics are allowed anywhere near Labours chance of recovery than they may as well call for Harold Shipman, because they have done!

stevie_b, on 07 May 2021 - 01:19 PM, said:

Well, they could start by taking the concerns of women seriously. The pandering to the alarming rise in transgender ideology – and calling women like me bigots when we dare to say that we don't welcome male people into our private spaces or sport - is potentially alienating 50% of their target market.

I'm fairly tough as a woman goes. I mean, I'm still on here, aren't I? But .... I found it fairly disconcerting at the snooker on Sunday when I discovered that the female toilets had become unisex for the evening. I get that the audience was probably 80% male but ..... I felt quite out of place surrounded by men in what should be a female space.

I've stated before - and it remains my truth - that I have no issue at all with transgender people. However, a transgender woman is male; you cannot change your biological sex, no matter what you cut off or what hormones you take. I'd happily be bezzie mates with a transgender woman but ... I do NOT welcome her into my female spaces, neither do I wish to come up against her in the front row of a female rugby scrum. The same goes for you guys, too. Men often have absolutely no concept of how much stronger and scarier than women they are.

Labour is doing little to dissuade men being considered women, simply because they say they are. And lots to make those of us who object feel like we're evil and exclusionary for doing so.

They're not listening to women and that is my reason for not voting Labour right now

Superbly put, to put the rights of transgender before those of women is not only ridiculous it’s very dangerous.

[isleaiw1]

azul, on 07 May 2021 - 02:14 PM, said:

It will be interesting to see what happens, I don’t think the left of the party is as strong as you are suggesting. It is common after an election defeat for each side to take the lessons they want, theright will blame Corbyn’s cronies and left will blame Starmer’s lack of policy. In hindsight, I wish I hadn’t voted for him - he’d be better in the higher echelon of the party, Shadow Home Secretary of something.

Is it too late for Andy Burnham to make a comeback. Mayor of Manchester is a big job but it is a bit of a sideshow, although he did get under Bozo’s skin

If Burnham comes back and gets proper control of the party, then he has my vote (subject to manifesto and all that!)

David Milliband is too ensconced in the states now.

Dont beat yourself up about voting for SKS, i mean what other reasonable options were there....?

[Wooden Spoon]

isleaiw1, on 07 May 2021 - 01:50 PM, said:

I see the Union leaders are saying Labour were not radical enough, not socialist enough, to win Hartlepool. Think they miss the point. Most people voting dont want radical socialism, they want a govt that makes them a bit better off than they were, looks after those that cant, and listens to what normal people say.....

Guess they will be looking to oust SKS (well McCluskey says he doesnt speak to him and the CWU union are saying similar and they supported Long-Bailey) so we can have a lurch further left and it will be a choice between the Tories and the Lib Dems a while longer....

https://www.bbc.co.u...litics-57016689



Is this what you’re referring to

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

To answer your question, Ian, that's up to the electorate.

Which includes the 'BB' membership.

As far as I know Labour are still the largest party in terms of membership. Thousands upon thousands of councilors are still working in communities like mine. Organising food banks which're busier than ever. Helping members of the public with seemingly mundane issues which're important to them. Dealing with complaints despite ever decreasing funds from central government.

Vital yet often unrecognised work.

Y'know, the kinda stuff the tories never do unless there's a photo op. Infact I don't think I've ever seen a tory leaflet let alone candidate in Birdholme.

An area of ten or more thousand people.

However it looks like the public don't want that. They're more impressed by populism. Cheery thumbs ups from a bloke they wouldn't wanna live next door to. Wouldn't let give a lift to their wife. Wouldn't want looking after their parents. Wouldn't want running their hospital.

And certainly wouldn't trust to tell the truth.

Why? Well the message seems to be they want to give Labour a kicking for taking them for granted. They seem to blame THEM for shortcomings in their lives. Rather than the tories who've been in power for more than a decade. They want change...but turn to that same party to deliver that change.

Sorry, and folk can accuse me of 'not listening' all they want, but I simply can't understand that.

Nor can I understand the idea that Bozo's better than SKS BECAUSE he's morally bankrupt. BECAUSE he's so disgustingly flawed. BECAUSE that makes him somehow human. I'm human yet I've never plumbed his depths, though. Nor have my family. Have you? Has anyone else reading this?

So why the different standards for an ex Etonian.

Then I keep reading 'whataboutery' from supposedly decent people...no, that's not fair - from people I KNOW are decent, being far more critical of what Labour did ten or twenty years ago than what the most incompetent government in living memory are doing now. Turning a blind eye to brazen corruption involving taxpayers' money - THEIR MONEY - whilst demanding the opposition jump through hoops to gain their vote.

Or calling out the current set of crooks but saying Labour aren't an electable alternative.

Either way there was an interesting call from a bloke ont' radio this morning. He essentially said all folk're really bothered about is their house, car, holiday and occasional neet out. And the tories' genius has been convincing punters Labour somehow wanna take them away and give 'em to undeserving scroungers. Cynically turning compassion against those advocating it - we've all heard the 'woak/snowflake/nanny state' sneers - and promoting selfishness.

Chuck in all that flag and statue hugging to promote themselves as the patriotic party, as compared with those daring to suggest the British Empire may, just possibly, have been less than wonderful for some populations, and I think he had a point.

Before we even mention the total coincidence of gunships in the Channel.

Anyway, I'm ranting. To return to your header I'm gonna say no, the Labour Party isn't finished. Infact I'll turn to Murdoch's Sun for support. Y'see I vividly remember a front page dubbing the tories an ex party. A characature of then leader Hague, one of several seen off by Tony Blair, portrayed as the parrot from the famous Monty Python sketch.

Yet here we are. Twenty years later and the tories running rampant. They say a week's a long time in politics, and Labour's got another three years...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 07 May 2021 - 03:26 PM

[isleaiw1]

DEATH, on 07 May 2021 - 03:08 PM, said:

https://www.bbc.co.u...litics-57016689



Is this what you’re referring to

Yep, always go to the Beeb on results day....

[Wooden Spoon]

This is a very well informed article


https://www.bbc.co.u...litics-57024995

[Wooden Spoon]

https://www.bbc.co.u...litics-56461679

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

DEATH, on 07 May 2021 - 03:22 PM, said:

https://www.bbc.co.u...litics-56461679

"Long Corbyn"

Made me chuckle, that...