[h again]

Spire-Power, on 01 April 2015 - 10:42 PM, said:

As imitation is the most sincere form of praise I should be glad that you are now voicing my oft-stated opinions as your own. For so long you lauded Evatt as the real-deal commanding CB without a decent partner. Hird was just a wilting flower not worthy of partnering him in your opinion. However, it was pointed out by a number of posters including myself that Evatt was rather suspect on the floor. It was only when this fact became undeniable from his performances in certain games that your rating of him became noticably diluted. And now you no longer regard him highly, just "decent". Moving on to Hird, I have been one of his supporters while you have been his greatest critic bar none - and by some margin. However, Hird has been putting in good performances - as has been pointed out by a number of posters, not least myself. It's so obvious you have now had to reluctantly and perhaps begrudgingly accept it. You therefore now rate him as "decent" - same as Evatt. Funny that you are now adopting my description of both of these players - as decent L1 CBs but no more - as your own! It's no wonder you expose yourself to so much ridicule. You'd probably be well advised to continue copying opinions as the ones you think up are truly bizarre. You have watched football for so many years but your own judgement of players and the game is laughable. Thanks for the entertainment and keep em coming. Age without wisdom eh?

Would you like to produce the post in which I praised Evatt, and on which your entire, and false, argument hinges. I had my doubts from the start, as everybody must have had, over his pace. What isn't in doubt is his heading ability and his standing up to the muscle-men, but for me that isn't enough, though it might be if he was paired with somebody of genuine pace.
Anybody who reaches the level of the football league is a 'decent' player. The standard is so far above any other form of football that it would be stupid to deny it. My point is that, decent or not, Hird's lack of pace and height weakens our defence. That's my opinion - if you think he's quick, and dominant in the air you're even more deluded than you try to advertise with every post.

[Bonnyman]

dim view, on 02 April 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

Apart from the disaster against Coventry, when Evo's mistake (combined with others') cost us a goal, we've conceded 1 goal in 6 games. Evo should be up for player of the month. That's the reason Charlie can't get his place back and which chumps would change a defence with that record?. Fishini?. Tim on Peak?.

I'm sat there last week watching Fleetwood v Preston thinking 'bluddddy hell, these defenders are no better than ours'. If I could choose any of them, from both teams, I'd have Preston's goalie and left back, that's it.

I never mentioned change just pace and longevity..if people think that raglan isnt the future im not sure what the lad has to do from where he has come he has looked every inch a winner

This post has been edited by Erwan dsihounou: 02 April 2015 - 07:15 PM

[Westbars Spireite]

h again, on 02 April 2015 - 07:09 PM, said:

Would you like to produce the post in which I praised Evatt, and on which your entire, and false, argument hinges. I had my doubts from the start, as everybody must have had, over his pace. What isn't in doubt is his heading ability and his standing up to the muscle-men, but for me that isn't enough, though it might be if he was paired with somebody of genuine pace.
Anybody who reaches the level of the football league is a 'decent' player. The standard is so far above any other form of football that it would be stupid to deny it. My point is that, decent or not, Hird's lack of pace and height weakens our defence. That's my opinion - if you think he's quick, and dominant in the air you're even more deluded than you try to advertise with every post.

He isn't but it's not a case of one or the other - you've been watching football long enough to know that.

Hird's interceptions, his reading of the game and clever play make him an effective player at this level. Alongside Evatt who's better in the air it works pretty well.

[Spire-Power]

h again, on 02 April 2015 - 07:09 PM, said:

Would you like to produce the post in which I praised Evatt, and on which your entire, and false, argument hinges. I had my doubts from the start, as everybody must have had, over his pace. What isn't in doubt is his heading ability and his standing up to the muscle-men, but for me that isn't enough, though it might be if he was paired with somebody of genuine pace.
Anybody who reaches the level of the football league is a 'decent' player. The standard is so far above any other form of football that it would be stupid to deny it. My point is that, decent or not, Hird's lack of pace and height weakens our defence. That's my opinion - if you think he's quick, and dominant in the air you're even more deluded than you try to advertise with every post.

I'm not spending time trawling through your posts, it should be obvious to all who read the forum regularly that you have bigged up Evatt this season (until a few facts belatedly hit you in the face) and put a massive downer on Hird. Hird isn't big for a CB but he isn't small. He has a reasonably good leap and, importantly, good timing in the air. He isn't fast, but he's no slow carthorse either. He is a reasonable L1 CB, not a weak player simply brushed aside by strikers. Your belittling of him is absurd. I'll ask you a couple of straightforward questions: Would it be fair to say that (1) your opinion of Evatt has fallen and (2) your opinion of Hird has improved ?

[Town_Fan]

Erwan dsihounou, on 02 April 2015 - 07:14 PM, said:

I never mentioned change just pace and longevity..if people think that raglan isnt the future im not sure what the lad has to do from where he has come he has looked every inch a winner

I believe that Raglan is our future, teach him well and let him lead the way.

[h again]

Westbars Spireite, on 02 April 2015 - 07:26 PM, said:

He isn't but it's not a case of one or the other - you've been watching football long enough to know that.

Hird's interceptions, his reading of the game and clever play make him an effective player at this level. Alongside Evatt who's better in the air it works pretty well.

It's very much a case of needing both, never mind one or the other, if we're to move up, or even stay where we are as comfortable in L1.
I quite agree about Hird's talent in reading the game - I pointed it out myself a long time ago when nobody else could think of a good reason to praise him - and it's a talent that counts for a lot, but it isn't the most important attribute for a central defender. It comes about fourth after reasonable pace, power in the air and that indefinable quality called authority or presence.

[Westbars Spireite]

There's no problem with having such demanding standards but it's probably unreasonable to expect much more from any third division central defenders.

Of course, in the unlikely event of promotion we'd need strengthening in that area, but so would all positions.

[h again]

Spire-Power, on 02 April 2015 - 08:19 PM, said:

I'm not spending time trawling through your posts, it should be obvious to all who read the forum regularly that you have bigged up Evatt this season (until a few facts belatedly hit you in the face) and put a massive downer on Hird. Hird isn't big for a CB but he isn't small. He has a reasonably good leap and, importantly, good timing in the air. He isn't fast, but he's no slow carthorse either. He is a reasonable L1 CB, not a weak player simply brushed aside by strikers. Your belittling of him is absurd. I'll ask you a couple of straightforward questions: Would it be fair to say that (1) your opinion of Evatt has fallen and (2) your opinion of Hird has improved ?

If you want to allege that I've praised Evatt unduly - or bigged him up, as you put it - and you've built an entire argument complete with insults around that allegation, then it isn't too much to ask that you produce a bit of evidence, instead of running for the usual cover of, "it should be obvious to all who read the forum". That's beyond pathetic, as you should have known when you started.
Would I play Evatt before Hird? About 90% of the time -yes. Do I think either of them can be replaced by better, faster and probably cheaper - yes.
My opinion of Evatt hasn't changed from fairly low, and Hird has improved from his original extremely poor performances. How much of that is due to being shielded by an excellent midfield you must judge, but I'd be looking for replacements for both next season as a priority.
And if that's the best you can find to say about Hird, so I imagine would you.

[h again]

Westbars Spireite, on 03 April 2015 - 11:47 AM, said:

There's no problem with having such demanding standards but it's probably unreasonable to expect much more from any third division central defenders.

Of course, in the unlikely event of promotion we'd need strengthening in that area, but so would all positions.

Well, we've had far better central defenders at a time when we were in this position or lower and struggling with crowds half of those we get now.
And none of them had the benefit of two excellent midfielders breaking up play in front of them.
I'll amend that - JD's central defenders had the rest of the side playing alongside them, of course. Still canny players, mind.

This post has been edited by h again: 03 April 2015 - 12:07 PM

[s42blue]

Town_Fan, on 02 April 2015 - 08:36 PM, said:

I believe that Raglan is our future, teach him well and let him lead the way.

I think we should show him all the beaut he possesses inside.

[h again]

Westbars Spireite, on 02 April 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

It's not so much what he says as the way he says it that winds certain people up.

Only just noticed this one, mi duck. People who argue in a constructive and civilised manner will get the same back from me - as you and a few others do. The ones who come along trying to be clever or simply belittling my arguments will get the same back.
Then there are the abuse merchants of course, mercifully a dying bred, but it takes all sorts.

[Westbars Spireite]

h again, on 03 April 2015 - 12:04 PM, said:

Well, we've had far better central defenders at a time when we were in this position or lower and struggling with crowds half of those we get now.
And none of them had the benefit of two excellent midfielders breaking up play in front of them.
I'll amend that - JD's central defenders had the rest of the side playing alongside them, of course. Still canny players, mind.

Blatherwick, Williams & Dyche in the last fifteen to twenty years which is how far I go back. I can't think of many others. Who are you thinking?

[dim view]

Westbars Spireite, on 03 April 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

Blatherwick, Williams & Dyche in the last fifteen to twenty years which is how far I go back. I can't think of many others. Who are you thinking?

best CH combination in my 50 years - Williams, Breckin.

[Westbars Spireite]

dim view, on 03 April 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

best CH combination in my 50 years - Williams, Breckin.

Breckin first time around, absolutely.

He can be added to the 'better than Evatt and Hird' list.

[Walton Spireite]

dim view, on 03 April 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

best CH combination in my 50 years - Williams, Breckin.

What about Tony Brien and Nigel Hart lol.

[Spire-Power]

h again, on 03 April 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

If you want to allege that I've praised Evatt unduly - or bigged him up, as you put it - and you've built an entire argument complete with insults around that allegation, then it isn't too much to ask that you produce a bit of evidence, instead of running for the usual cover of, "it should be obvious to all who read the forum". That's beyond pathetic, as you should have known when you started.
Would I play Evatt before Hird? About 90% of the time -yes. Do I think either of them can be replaced by better, faster and probably cheaper - yes.
My opinion of Evatt hasn't changed from fairly low, and Hird has improved from his original extremely poor performances. How much of that is due to being shielded by an excellent midfield you must judge, but I'd be looking for replacements for both next season as a priority.
And if that's the best you can find to say about Hird, so I imagine would you.

A dishonest post, h. Admit you got it wrong.

[Spire-Power]

h again, on 02 April 2015 - 07:09 PM, said:

Would you like to produce the post in which I praised Evatt, and on which your entire, and false, argument hinges. I had my doubts from the start, as everybody must have had, over his pace. What isn't in doubt is his heading ability and his standing up to the muscle-men, but for me that isn't enough, though it might be if he was paired with somebody of genuine pace.
Anybody who reaches the level of the football league is a 'decent' player. The standard is so far above any other form of football that it would be stupid to deny it. My point is that, decent or not, Hird's lack of pace and height weakens our defence. That's my opinion - if you think he's quick, and dominant in the air you're even more deluded than you try to advertise with every post. Funny one that

[Spire-Power]

h again, on 03 April 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

It's very much a case of needing both, never mind one or the other, if we're to move up, or even stay where we are as comfortable in L1.
I quite agree about Hird's talent in reading the game - I pointed it out myself a long time ago when nobody else could think of a good reason to praise him - and it's a talent that counts for a lot, but it isn't the most important attribute for a central defender. It comes about fourth after reasonable pace, power in the air and that indefinable quality called authority or presence.

You'd never had a good word for him until it finally dawned on you that you were making yourself a laughing stock!
Btw another one of your targets has just scored twice - after hird got us back into the game

This post has been edited by Spire-Power: 03 April 2015 - 03:31 PM

[h again]

Spire-Power, on 03 April 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

A dishonest post, h. Admit you got it wrong.

I've been extremely doubtful about Evatt from Day 1. You are, with all due respect, posting rubbish which you cannot substantiate in any way.
And the argument is about Hird's quality. Evatt's is irrelevant, though similar.

[Wooden Spoon]

h again, on 03 April 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

Then there are the abuse merchants of course, mercifully a dying bred, but it takes all sorts.