[The Earl of Chesterfield]

dtp, on 09 July 2020 - 07:14 PM, said:

As I've said previously, families can sit together so it is not necessary to create space between every seat. If seating is arranged according to ST sales then capacity can be maximised according to the number sold and seating would not have to be re-arranged for every individual game. That is why, initially, it would be far more effective to work on a ST basis rather than a walk-up one. From a business point of view the Club will need guaranteed income served at as little cost as possible which suits the model of STs over walk-up's. And, yes, there is the chance of disappointing some regular walk-up's but the other way round there is a chance of disappointing a number of regular ST holders.

Families can't sit together.

Dunno what the latest government rules are (does anyone?) but how can the Club possibly know who's in who's 'bubble'. Unenforcable.

But I'm glad you're happy to take part in a ticket lottery. Even though you seem adamant it should be amongst temporarily teetotal season ticket holders.

It's at least a workable starting point and hey; if you're unlucky any given week me an thee can share a socially distanced pint elsewhere...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 09 July 2020 - 09:35 PM

[Mr Mercury]

Westbars Spireite, on 09 July 2020 - 08:27 PM, said:

And if you don't want to go 'cos you're fearful, don't.

That's where I am. For those who genuinely think they have symptoms then get a test, then self isolate if req'd, if you are genuinely fearful, then take whatever precautions you deem necessary to keep safe, but for the vast majority of society let's get back to normal, let's get educated, let's shop, let's travel, let's keep people in jobs, let's take care of their well being..let's, well I can't keep repeating it.

[Ernie Ernie Ernie]

Valley Blues, on 09 July 2020 - 08:23 AM, said:

When comparing mortality rates worldwide from Covid, can you be certain that each nation is using the same process of determining what is a Covid death and what isn’t?

I can’t.

The uk appears to give a figure for all those recorded deaths that HAD Covid. This doesn’t necessarily mean it was the cause of their death.

Are other nations reporting in the same manner? Or are some nations playing it more cautiously? How do NZ report it?

Without knowing this information, these quoted comparisons are of very little use.

There isn’t a cat in hella chance that some of the poorer nations have statistics of any description worth talking about but irrespective of that we are one of the worst of the “advanced” countries. Lock down here can you do this pretty please, no ok then but you might get a 20p fine. Some other countries go home, go in or I will hit you with this big stick

[dim view]

Mr Mercury, on 09 July 2020 - 09:50 PM, said:

That's where I am. For those who genuinely think they have symptoms then get a test, then self isolate if req'd, if you are genuinely fearful, then take whatever precautions you deem necessary to keep safe, but for the vast majority of society let's get back to normal, let's get educated, let's shop, let's travel, let's keep people in jobs, let's take care of their well being..let's, well I can't keep repeating it.

How do you guard against the attendance of 'super-spreaders' who not only might be asymptomatic but also might be fully aware of their condition and flaunt self isolation 'cos of mild symptoms? It only takes one to not give a monkey's.

Put simply. How would you stop people who shouldn't attend from attending? Reliance on their altruism seems to me a tad naive. At how many grounds would a spike have to occur before spectator sport was shut down again?

[dtp]

dim view, on 10 July 2020 - 06:04 AM, said:

How do you guard against the attendance of 'super-spreaders' who not only might be asymptomatic but also might be fully aware of their condition and flaunt self isolation 'cos of mild symptoms? It only takes one to not give a monkey's.

Put simply. How would you stop people who shouldn't attend from attending? Reliance on their altruism seems to me a tad naive. At how many grounds would a spike have to occur before spectator sport was shut down again?

The "super-spreaders" might go into pubs, restaurants, supermarkets, town centres, etc etc etc.

At what point do you stop not doing anything?

[dtp]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 09 July 2020 - 09:19 PM, said:

Families can't sit together.

Dunno what the latest government rules are (does anyone?) but how can the Club possibly know who's in who's 'bubble'. Unenforcable.

But I'm glad you're happy to take part in a ticket lottery. Even though you seem adamant it should be amongst temporarily teetotal season ticket holders.

It's at least a workable starting point and hey; if you're unlucky any given week me an thee can share a socially distanced pint elsewhere...

Sorry, Chris, by families I should have said members of the same household. The Club can't possibly know who's in who's bubble but neither can a pub or a restaurant. These organisations only have to obtain contact details in case they are required.

Regarding the serving of alcohol to seats, I am not adamant but merely respecting current rules.

I'm not sure if I would be lucky or unlucky, Chris, but I don't think either of us would be bored.

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Okay. I've done some digging and this is how current restrictions seem to apply.

Every venue must reduce capacity to become Covid compliant.

Every visit must be booked in advance.

Every customer must supply accurate contact details.

Everyone must wear a mask as much as possible.

Everyone must be waited on at their place.

All facilities must remain closed unless hygiene and distancing can be guaranteed.

Anyone attending must enter a two week quarantine if another tests positive regardless of actual vicinity.

So, to put that in Town context it means only one in every nine, possibly even twelve seats available. A total of barely a thousand. Fewer, if the soft ones remain 'reserved'.

It'd mean first come, first served ticket allocation by phone or interwebby on a game-by-game basis. For individual seats. Alongside traceable ID. No season tickets because no one would know if they'd changed hands. Then could an already criticised IT system cope?

It'd mean long queues to get in and out. Perhaps turnstiles being regularly wiped down, too.

It'd mean dozens of staff to serve at seat and/or police social distancing.

It'd mean three or four hours in a sterile stadium without a beer.

It'd mean two weeks off work and/or away from family for ninety minutes' football.

It might even mean lifelong fans being locked out whilst occasional punters enjoy hospitality. 'Cos they can afford it or are simply part of an 'in crowd'.

Now this isn't me being 'negative' or shutting down ideas, it's government dictat. So if anyone doesn't like it either protest to 'Boris' or tell Dave Allen to open up despite the unrealistic costs...

[Sammy Spireite]

Surely, every ticket sold will have to have a name and address linked to it, ST or not?

[Valley Blues]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 10 July 2020 - 07:52 AM, said:

Okay. I've done some digging and this is how current restrictions seem to apply.

Every venue must reduce capacity to become Covid compliant.

Every visit must be booked in advance.

Every customer must supply accurate contact details.

Everyone must wear a mask as much as possible.

Everyone must be waited on at their place.

All facilities must remain closed unless hygiene and distancing can be guaranteed.

Anyone attending must enter a two week quarantine if another tests positive regardless of actual vicinity.

So, to put that in Town context it means only one in every nine, possibly even twelve seats available. A total of barely a thousand. Fewer, if the soft ones remain 'reserved'.

It'd mean first come, first served ticket allocation by phone or interwebby on a game-by-game basis. For individual seats. Alongside traceable ID. No season tickets because no one would know if they'd changed hands. Then could an already criticised IT system cope?

It'd mean long queues to get in and out. Perhaps turnstiles being regularly wiped down, too.

It'd mean dozens of staff to serve at seat and/or police social distancing.

It'd mean three or four hours in a sterile stadium without a beer.

It'd mean two weeks off work and/or away from family for ninety minutes' football.

It might even mean lifelong fans being locked out whilst occasional punters enjoy hospitality. 'Cos they can afford it or are simply part of an 'in crowd'.

Now this isn't me being 'negative' or shutting down ideas, it's government dictat. So if anyone doesn't like it either protest to 'Boris' or tell Dave Allen to open up despite the unrealistic costs...

I wonder how long these current restrictions will remain in place.

Grassroots cricket back this weekend, other grassroots sports following.
Outdoor swimming pools opening, gyms and indoor leisure facilities following.
Things are steadily returning to some form of ‘normality’.

What is interesting is that a number of weeks ago we witnessed tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands, in mass gatherings from Plymouth to Edinburgh. A vast proportion of these were certainly not adhering to social distance guidelines, in protests, demonstrations and days out at the beach.

It’s astonishing that there hasn’t been any spike. To the contrary, numbers have reportedly continued to steadily fall.

Is this something the ‘experts’ take into account when looking at what restrictions are necessary moving forward, I wonder.

If standing shoulder to shoulder in protest or burying each other in Bournemouth sand hasn’t increased the virus spreading, then maybe sporting stadiums will soon welcome the paying punter again.

This post has been edited by Valley Blues: 10 July 2020 - 08:27 AM

[jack'smyboy]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 10 July 2020 - 07:52 AM, said:

Okay. I've done some digging and this is how current restrictions seem to apply.

Every venue must reduce capacity to become Covid compliant.

Every visit must be booked in advance.

Every customer must supply accurate contact details.

Everyone must wear a mask as much as possible.

Everyone must be waited on at their place.

All facilities must remain closed unless hygiene and distancing can be guaranteed.

Anyone attending must enter a two week quarantine if another tests positive regardless of actual vicinity.

So, to put that in Town context it means only one in every nine, possibly even twelve seats available. A total of barely a thousand. Fewer, if the soft ones remain 'reserved'.

It'd mean first come, first served ticket allocation by phone or interwebby on a game-by-game basis. For individual seats. Alongside traceable ID. No season tickets because no one would know if they'd changed hands. Then could an already criticised IT system cope?

It'd mean long queues to get in and out. Perhaps turnstiles being regularly wiped down, too.

It'd mean dozens of staff to serve at seat and/or police social distancing.

It'd mean three or four hours in a sterile stadium without a beer.

It'd mean two weeks off work and/or away from family for ninety minutes' football.

It might even mean lifelong fans being locked out whilst occasional punters enjoy hospitality. 'Cos they can afford it or are simply part of an 'in crowd'.

Now this isn't me being 'negative' or shutting down ideas, it's government dictat. So if anyone doesn't like it either protest to 'Boris' or tell Dave Allen to open up despite the unrealistic costs...

Essential businesses have had restrictions in place.

Schools have not returned to normal, but those that are happy to return under the 'new normal' have done so.

Likewise restaurants, pubs, non-essential shops and businesses...

It'll be the same with indoor pools and gym from 25th July (some 'swimmers' are in for a hell of a shock)

You either accept and comply with any measures, or stay away until a business has been able to return to normal. We shouldn't be prevented from spectators returning to live football because a walk-up can't have his previous matchday experience and doesn't understand how quarantine will work for a positive test in a massive outdoor area (and doesn't even appear to understand how it works for indoor transmission)

[CFC91]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 10 July 2020 - 07:52 AM, said:

Okay. I've done some digging and this is how current restrictions seem to apply.

Every venue must reduce capacity to become Covid compliant.

Every visit must be booked in advance.

Every customer must supply accurate contact details.

Everyone must wear a mask as much as possible.

Everyone must be waited on at their place.

All facilities must remain closed unless hygiene and distancing can be guaranteed.

Anyone attending must enter a two week quarantine if another tests positive regardless of actual vicinity.

So, to put that in Town context it means only one in every nine, possibly even twelve seats available. A total of barely a thousand. Fewer, if the soft ones remain 'reserved'.

It'd mean first come, first served ticket allocation by phone or interwebby on a game-by-game basis. For individual seats. Alongside traceable ID. No season tickets because no one would know if they'd changed hands. Then could an already criticised IT system cope?

It'd mean long queues to get in and out. Perhaps turnstiles being regularly wiped down, too.

It'd mean dozens of staff to serve at seat and/or police social distancing.

It'd mean three or four hours in a sterile stadium without a beer.

It'd mean two weeks off work and/or away from family for ninety minutes' football.

It might even mean lifelong fans being locked out whilst occasional punters enjoy hospitality. 'Cos they can afford it or are simply part of an 'in crowd'.

Now this isn't me being 'negative' or shutting down ideas, it's government dictat. So if anyone doesn't like it either protest to 'Boris' or tell Dave Allen to open up despite the unrealistic costs...

This really isn't the case. From someone who has been out a couple of times for a few beers and food in the last couple of weeks this is the reality of what pubs are doing..

Every venue must reduce capacity to become Covid compliant - correct to allow social distancing, and this has been the case in pubs, supermarkets, restaurants, hairdressers etc so would be the same in the ground, gyms, swimming pools, salons etc when they reopen.

Every visit must be booked in advance - no, seemingly not true. We visited 3 bars on Saturday & a couple on Sunday, booked a table in the first as we thought it would be busy. The rest we walked into and were seated. You have to be seated, no standing around, and you have to queue outside if they are full.

Every customer must supply accurate contact details - again, not the case. One person per table has to supply details. 6 different household are allowed outside, 2 different ones inside. So technically with football being outside you could sit with 5 of your mates I guess, obviously that is just thinking out loud and assuming they'd replicate something similar for football/cricket as they do for pubs.

Everyone must wear a mask as much as possible. - not true, nobody wore masks in any of the bars/restaurants bar one or two of the bar staff. I had to wear one in the hairdressers, and maybe would wear one to go to the football if needed.

Everyone must be waited on at their place - again, wasn't the guidelines we were told about. Table service, service via and App and Bar Service all offered to us - we had the choice with clear markers of where to stand, how many were allowed at one time. FWIW - ordering via an app and table service is much easier so I only went to the bar once.

No staff policing social distancing, no fun police at all. It was all quite normal, apart from not being as busy as normal which was nice.

No idea where these rules are from but almost every bar/restaurant etc in Town are tweeting/posting about the rules and regs and none of them match up to this government advice so either everybody is going rogue (which they aren't obviously) or you've been misinformed. The only rule I think we broken was there was 4 of us from 4 different households and we were seated inside, no questions asked in one place, and sat outside in others.

Head out for a few beers this weekend and see what's actually going on, you probably deserve one or two with all the stress your pal Bozo is putting you under.

This post has been edited by CFC91: 10 July 2020 - 09:47 AM

[Westbars Spireite]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 10 July 2020 - 07:52 AM, said:

Okay. I've done some digging and this is how current restrictions seem to apply.

Every venue must reduce capacity to become Covid compliant.

Every visit must be booked in advance.

Every customer must supply accurate contact details.

Everyone must wear a mask as much as possible.

Everyone must be waited on at their place.

All facilities must remain closed unless hygiene and distancing can be guaranteed.

Anyone attending must enter a two week quarantine if another tests positive regardless of actual vicinity.

So, to put that in Town context it means only one in every nine, possibly even twelve seats available. A total of barely a thousand. Fewer, if the soft ones remain 'reserved'.

It'd mean first come, first served ticket allocation by phone or interwebby on a game-by-game basis. For individual seats. Alongside traceable ID. No season tickets because no one would know if they'd changed hands. Then could an already criticised IT system cope?

It'd mean long queues to get in and out. Perhaps turnstiles being regularly wiped down, too.

It'd mean dozens of staff to serve at seat and/or police social distancing.

It'd mean three or four hours in a sterile stadium without a beer.

It'd mean two weeks off work and/or away from family for ninety minutes' football.

It might even mean lifelong fans being locked out whilst occasional punters enjoy hospitality. 'Cos they can afford it or are simply part of an 'in crowd'.

Now this isn't me being 'negative' or shutting down ideas, it's government dictat. So if anyone doesn't like it either protest to 'Boris' or tell Dave Allen to open up despite the unrealistic costs...

Where are you getting your 1 in 9 minimum from Chris?

[CFC91]

Westbars Spireite, on 10 July 2020 - 10:28 AM, said:

Where are you getting your 1 in 9 minimum from Chris?

Not sure but Wembley and Twickenham are confident they can resume with 40,000 + 45,000 respectively (as reported today) which certainly isn't 1 in 9, more like 1 in 2.

[moondog]

CFC91, on 10 July 2020 - 09:31 AM, said:

This really isn't the case. From someone who has been out a couple of times for a few beers and food in the last couple of weeks this is the reality of what pubs are doing..

Every venue must reduce capacity to become Covid compliant - correct to allow social distancing, and this has been the case in pubs, supermarkets, restaurants, hairdressers etc so would be the same in the ground, gyms, swimming pools, salons etc when they reopen.

Every visit must be booked in advance - no, seemingly not true. We visited 3 bars on Saturday & a couple on Sunday, booked a table in the first as we thought it would be busy. The rest we walked into and were seated. You have to be seated, no standing around, and you have to queue outside if they are full.

Every customer must supply accurate contact details - again, not the case. One person per table has to supply details. 6 different household are allowed outside, 2 different ones inside. So technically with football being outside you could sit with 5 of your mates I guess, obviously that is just thinking out loud and assuming they'd replicate something similar for football/cricket as they do for pubs.

Everyone must wear a mask as much as possible. - not true, nobody wore masks in any of the bars/restaurants bar one or two of the bar staff. I had to wear one in the hairdressers, and maybe would wear one to go to the football if needed.

Everyone must be waited on at their place - again, wasn't the guidelines we were told about. Table service, service via and App and Bar Service all offered to us - we had the choice with clear markers of where to stand, how many were allowed at one time. FWIW - ordering via an app and table service is much easier so I only went to the bar once.

No staff policing social distancing, no fun police at all. It was all quite normal, apart from not being as busy as normal which was nice.

No idea where these rules are from but almost every bar/restaurant etc in Town are tweeting/posting about the rules and regs and none of them match up to this government advice so either everybody is going rogue (which they aren't obviously) or you've been misinformed. The only rule I think we broken was there was 4 of us from 4 different households and we were seated inside, no questions asked in one place, and sat outside in others.

Head out for a few beers this weekend and see what's actually going on, you probably deserve one or two with all the stress your pal Bozo is putting you under.

I went in 8 pubs on Saturday in Town and Brampton, only one was asking for bookings in advance,we are regulars so did this informally. Of the others only 2 actually took contact details, 2 others handed out a form to fill in if you wanted. The other 3 never bothered at all. I don't think any pub turned anyone away as they weren't busy enough. All had hand sanitisers. Those up the far west end of Brampton shut at 10pm, not sure if this was under instructions or not. Everyone I saw was behaving sensibly and it was nice to be back out

[The Earl of Chesterfield]

Okay, happy to bow to actual experiences (by the way, the one in nine is a seat either side of a punter then three behind and in front. That's about a meter-plus, in't it?).

Clearly the instructions or advice or rules I found on-line are being interpreted differently (the lad went out to a 'do as you please' boozer last week, too).

Wouldn't surprise me if that was the plan all along, why so much from the government has been so contradictory and vague.

Either way it'll be interesting to see how all this is plays out.

And just as interesting to see who gets the blame if it goes t*ts up...

[dim view]

dtp, on 10 July 2020 - 07:23 AM, said:

The "super-spreaders" might go into pubs, restaurants, supermarkets, town centres, etc etc etc.

At what point do you stop not doing anything?

Well if you want to assess the risks of attending a raucus, vociferous, sporting event as equal or less than those examples, feel free.

[jack'smyboy]

dim view, on 10 July 2020 - 01:00 PM, said:

Well if you want to assess the risks of attending a raucus, vociferous, sporting event as equal or less than those examples, feel free.

Exactly, I put myself at more risk working in school than I will watching a match at the Proact.

[CFC91]

The Earl of Chesterfield, on 10 July 2020 - 11:50 AM, said:

Okay, happy to bow to actual experiences (by the way, the one in nine is a seat either side of a punter then three behind and in front. That's about a meter-plus, in't it?).

Clearly the instructions or advice or rules I found on-line are being interpreted differently (the lad went out to a 'do as you please' boozer last week, too).

Wouldn't surprise me if that was the plan all along, why so much from the government has been so contradictory and vague.

Either way it'll be interesting to see how all this is plays out.

And just as interesting to see who gets the blame if it goes t*ts up...

I think we all know who will get the blame, and it won't be the government

Fingers crossed it doesn't come to that.

[dtp]

dim view, on 10 July 2020 - 01:00 PM, said:

Well if you want to assess the risks of attending a raucus, vociferous, sporting event as equal or less than those examples, feel free.

Over my many years I've seen men in restaurants go to the toilet, both urinal and cubicle, then walk out without washing their hands to eat their meals and handle various items their companions handle afterwards.

When I go into a supermarket or shop I haven't a clue who has handled the items I want to buy before I pick them up.

Similarly, in a pub, I don't know who has had their hands on the table and chairs, or even the bar, before me.

For me, the current issues are similar to what they have always been, be mindful of other people and be careful for yourself. As such, I will continue to assess the risks and I will attend when I can.

[sophocles]

Westbars Spireite, on 10 July 2020 - 10:28 AM, said:

Where are you getting your 1 in 9 minimum from Chris?

He's double-counting empty seats because each empty seat is common to two attendees, if you see what I mean. If I sit a seat along from you, the empty seat between us only reduces the number of spectators in those 4 seats by 2. If all rows were full, leaving a seat empty between attendees would reduce total attendance by 50%. Because our rows are close together, you would need to only use alternate rows, reducing the remaining attendance by a further 50%. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that equates overall to 25% of seats being usable.