The End Of Labour?
#1
Posted 07 May 2021 - 08:26 AM
Discuss....
#2
Posted 07 May 2021 - 08:36 AM
#3
Posted 07 May 2021 - 08:43 AM
#4 Guest_Quaker_*
Posted 07 May 2021 - 08:47 AM
#5
Posted 07 May 2021 - 08:48 AM
Search and Destroy, on 07 May 2021 - 08:36 AM, said:
No we need a good credible opposition to do that, we've had too many years of a protest party....
#6
Posted 07 May 2021 - 08:50 AM
azul, on 07 May 2021 - 08:43 AM, said:
Any good reason or heart over head? They have been humiliated in Hartlepool, seem to be losing seats in the local elections, and that against probably the most morally bankrupt PM in living memory.....
So what do you think will save them? Apart for Boris being Boris of course... or Gove taking over...!
#7
Posted 07 May 2021 - 08:51 AM
isleaiw1, on 07 May 2021 - 08:26 AM, said:
Discuss....
Early council results look to show a blue wave of Leave voting constituencies sticking with the Tories...Labours fence sitting and traditional Labour, leave voting, constituencies ignorance of the electorate as thick or racist or ‘vote loaning’ has cost them dearly. Jobs on to win them back now
#8
Posted 07 May 2021 - 08:52 AM
Search and Destroy, on 07 May 2021 - 08:36 AM, said:
I say that is exactly what is wrong with the Party.
A "Protest" Party needs something to "protest" about which is normally the people making decisions.
Who does a "Protest" Party "protest" about if it is in power?
If Labour ever wants to win an election and have the power to make decisions it needs to stop protesting and start telling the electorate exactly what they stand for and what they would do if in power. And, that doesn't mean just saying "no" when t'other lot say "yes".
#9 Guest_Quaker_*
Posted 07 May 2021 - 08:58 AM
dtp, on 07 May 2021 - 08:52 AM, said:
A "Protest" Party needs something to "protest" about which is normally the people making decisions.
Who does a "Protest" Party "protest" about if it is in power?
If Labour ever wants to win an election and have the power to make decisions it needs to stop protesting and start telling the electorate exactly what they stand for and what they would do if in power. And, that doesn't mean just saying "no" when t'other lot say "yes".
I've been saying this for years. They literally have nothing to offer apart from bleating about what everyone else is doing wrong.
#10
Posted 07 May 2021 - 09:15 AM
Quaker, on 07 May 2021 - 08:58 AM, said:
I think that’s indicative on here of the die in the wool Labour on here. Labour might well be appeasing it’s members but it’s certainly not doing it for the people who matter - the millions of eligible voters.
Pointing the fingers about what the Tories have said, done, covered up, not done etc will not win Labour votes.
#11
Posted 07 May 2021 - 09:23 AM
isleaiw1, on 07 May 2021 - 08:50 AM, said:
So what do you think will save them? Apart for Boris being Boris of course... or Gove taking over...!
You’ve answer 60% of your own question in that last paragraph.
I’d expect Labour to get some policies, any are better than none. I hope for a change in outlook/mood from the electorate as the post Brexit/Covid world develops.
However, I’m expecting an election this time next year. Not sure how it will be justified but that won’t help Labour
#12
Posted 07 May 2021 - 09:33 AM
CFC91, on 07 May 2021 - 09:15 AM, said:
Pointing the fingers about what the Tories have said, done, covered up, not done etc will not win Labour votes.
It is a massive port of the equation
The industrial situation toppled Callaghan
Sleaze and corruption toppled Major
The banking situation toppled Brown
Sleaze and corruption toppled [insert here]
That is almost poetic
#13
Posted 07 May 2021 - 09:34 AM
#15
Posted 07 May 2021 - 09:40 AM
azul, on 07 May 2021 - 09:23 AM, said:
I’d expect Labour to get some policies, any are better than none. I hope for a change in outlook/mood from the electorate as the post Brexit/Covid world develops.
However, I’m expecting an election this time next year. Not sure how it will be justified but that won’t help Labour
I hope that they dont decide that waiting for the others to mess up is good enough as its likely they will manage to shoot themselves in the foot first!
They need to forget Brexit, its done. They need to find policies that dont scare people in their desire to impress the radicals. If I read the manifesto from the last election there will be one good phrase or ideal but then words beneath it that scare the pants off a person who works in business. They need to keep the social and lose the radical.
The only reason there will be an early election is so BoZo can do something Cameron couldnt before he steps down. But I expect him to step down before another election (or maybe that is just wishful thinking)....
#16
Posted 07 May 2021 - 09:47 AM
azul, on 07 May 2021 - 09:33 AM, said:
The industrial situation toppled Callaghan
Sleaze and corruption toppled Major
The banking situation toppled Brown
Sleaze and corruption toppled [insert here]
That is almost poetic
I’d prefer it if strong leadership, vote winning policies and a strong Labour topple [insert here] instead of waiting for them to trip over themselves.
#17
Posted 07 May 2021 - 09:55 AM
isleaiw1, on 07 May 2021 - 09:40 AM, said:
They need to forget Brexit, its done. They need to find policies that dont scare people in their desire to impress the radicals. If I read the manifesto from the last election there will be one good phrase or ideal but then words beneath it that scare the pants off a person who works in business. They need to keep the social and lose the radical.
The only reason there will be an early election is so BoZo can do something Cameron couldnt before he steps down. But I expect him to step down before another election (or maybe that is just wishful thinking)....
And I hope they don’t rely on that either
Brexit is done in name but the hard part, the repercussions are just beginning and it is how Labour respond to those that’s important, likewise the Covid fallout.
The economic situation would be the driver for an early election, The latest forecasts (assuming Covid is under control) are for a major economic bounce in 2021 that will recover much of what was lost in 2020, before slowing down in 2022.
CFC91, on 07 May 2021 - 09:47 AM, said:
So would I, but I don’t think it works that way as a rule
#18
Posted 07 May 2021 - 10:00 AM
CFC91, on 07 May 2021 - 09:47 AM, said:
This. Labour have become so obsessed with trying to topple Boris that they've not stopped to realise that no one gives a toss about him. People care about themselves, and if your not going to offer them clear and concise policies about how you are going to make their lives better they simply will not vote for you, regardless of how corrupt and rotten the current PM may be.
The left just are not learning. You don't win by attacking and slagging off the right, they feed off that hate and use it to rouse their followers by saying look at how the metropolitan elite are bullying us and everyone who votes for us. But left leaning people just can't help themselves, the bait is set and they go in full guns blazing attacking everything and everyone who does not agree with them and therefore just make resistance to their message even stronger.
Someone needs to take control of that party, just forget about the damn Tories and start creating a manifesto with appealing policy and broad appeal to both the working class and younger people and use that to defeat the Tories, because it'll work a damn sight better than attacking Boris.
#19
Posted 07 May 2021 - 10:05 AM
SpireiteFitzy, on 07 May 2021 - 10:00 AM, said:
The left just are not learning. You don't win by attacking and slagging off the right, they feed off that hate and use it to rouse their followers by saying look at how the metropolitan elite are bullying us and everyone who votes for us. But left leaning people just can't help themselves, the bait is set and they go in full guns blazing attacking everything and everyone who does not agree with them and therefore just make resistance to their message even stronger.
Someone needs to take control of that party, just forget about the damn Tories and start creating a manifesto with appealing policy and broad appeal to both the working class and younger people and use that to defeat the Tories, because it'll work a damn sight better than attacking Boris.
It’s not just about policies - it is about presenting them in an attractive way.
What we need is a Dominic Cummings
Your right though - the Tories will be their own undoing
This post has been edited by azul: 07 May 2021 - 10:07 AM
#20
Posted 07 May 2021 - 10:05 AM
SpireiteFitzy, on 07 May 2021 - 10:00 AM, said:
The left just are not learning. You don't win by attacking and slagging off the right, they feed off that hate and use it to rouse their followers by saying look at how the metropolitan elite are bullying us and everyone who votes for us. But left leaning people just can't help themselves, the bait is set and they go in full guns blazing attacking everything and everyone who does not agree with them and therefore just make resistance to their message even stronger.
Someone needs to take control of that party, just forget about the damn Tories and start creating a manifesto with appealing policy and broad appeal to both the working class and younger people and use that to defeat the Tories, because it'll work a damn sight better than attacking Boris.
And the thing is that message could have been written about Scargill and his failings in the miners strike. 40 years later they still fall into the same traps.....