Bob's Board - Chesterfield FC: If Cinemas And Pubs Are Re-Opening....... - Bob's Board - Chesterfield FC

Valley Blues, on 08 July 2020 - 06:18 PM, said:

There’s not a distinct difference for the thousands of people who survived Covid but have still not recovered and may have life long disabilities. Yes we will have to live with it, and take risks dealing with it, but if you dis it you’re not listening to those people that you’ve probably been clapping at 8pm on a Thursday. It has killed, and is killing, loads of people. And scientists still don’t understand its effects.

Bobby Darling, on 10 July 2020 - 06:10 PM, said:

The various scientists have disagreed over the pandemic from day one but it's on their advice decisions have had to be taken.

Bobby Darling, on 10 July 2020 - 06:10 PM, said:

I’m ‘dissing’ nobody.

I do, however, listen to those people I have applauded at 8pm on a Thursday evening, some that I know personally, NHS professionals that are left scratching their heads sometimes as to why some deaths are being recorded as Covid when this isn’t the reason this person has passed.

My point was that there is certainly a distinct difference between someone who regrettably died from Coronavirus to someone who was succumbing to a different illness of disease and that coronavirus exploited their weakness and expedited their demise.

Both equally upsetting and I’m not belittling this in any way. My thoughts would be with both.

sophocles, on 10 July 2020 - 05:18 PM, said:

Now try factoring in the people who sit near me. On my left my grandson sits with his dad from the same household. On my right my friend sits with his son both from the same household. Immediately in front of me a husband sits with his wife on his left both from the same household. Behind my grandson sits a woman with her husband who sits behind my son both from the same household.

Then consider the families who take their young children and sit together in the family stand. Non of these need to be separated and can sit next to each other.

So does factoring in such "same household" families increase the potential numbers even allowing for current social distancing? If the row in front of them and the row behind them is removed to fit in with "remove every other row idea" then I suggest sitting such members of the same household on the same row as others of the same household actually puts more people onto a row. Logically through the sale of STs this can be monitored, managed, and allocated in such a way as to increase capacity.

dtp, on 10 July 2020 - 07:19 PM, said:

Now come up with a scheme for the large number of clubs in the NL who have far more standing than seating.

60s 70s Spireite, on 10 July 2020 - 07:32 PM, said:

Temporary seating??? Controlling how people stand is not possible unless they are extremely self disciplined.

There are a number of Clubs with all-seater stadiums and so are in the same boat as us.

I agree there are others that don't have these facilities but neither do they have the attendance levels that we have. A one size fits all solution is not possible. Similarly, some pubs etc have more difficulty with social distancing etc than others. So, each Club should have to have their individual covid-19 planning passed by the appropriate authority.

dtp, on 10 July 2020 - 07:45 PM, said:

On your basis some NL clubs could only accommodate around 25% average attendance for last season eg Dover. Do you think clubs in this predicament will be happy to vote for the start of a new season on this footing, when they can only cover a fraction of players salaries?

This post has been edited by 60s 70s Spireite: 10 July 2020 - 08:44 PM

dtp, on 10 July 2020 - 07:04 PM, said:

Wrong forum for a debate on that. But if you believe that this Government has based its approach on science you either: don’t listen to scientists, don’t read papers other than the Sun and Express (feel free to read even the Mail and Telegraph) or, which I assume is the case, have absolutely no understanding of what science means in its most basic sense. Just re-read what you written! Neither science nor logic.

dtp, on 10 July 2020 - 07:19 PM, said:

I agree. That's why my estimate in an earlier post was that we might be able to accommodate around a third of ground capacity. That would allow attendances similar to those we have been getting in recent seasons.
Going even further, I don't discount the possibility that the Government might recommend a 'bubble' system, like the one enabling them to get schools up to full capacity in September. So whole blocks of spectators could ignore social distancing, on the understanding that they would all isolate if one or more developed symptoms. Not a particularly appealing prospect, but one that is being foisted on school pupils and staff in an attempt to get back to 'normality'.

sophocles, on 10 July 2020 - 11:44 PM, said:

But it’s not about ‘us’ or ‘we’ it’s about football at national level. As yesterday’s announcement about grassroots sports, ‘each individual sport will submit to the government an action plan and related guidance, demonstrating its mitigations, how it plans to operate, and any adaptations required, before they can be approved to restart.’ So it will be when it’s decreed spectators can return. Then I would imagine the NL will produce the plan for their affiliated clubs, and finally each club will have to produce its own individual plan adhering to these.

Outside the old Eastern Bloc countries, I can’t see any other European countries that have allowed or have a date set for spectators back to matches, apart from the Netherlands. They are looking to introduce spectators from 1 September. The KNVB has produced an 80 page document, and the guidelines state, amongst other recommendations, spectators limited to 15% to 35% of seats, (back to my issue of the clubs with a small percentage of seating) stay 1.5m apart, no singing or chanting (good luck with that) and refreshments to be purchased from mobile vendors.

dtp, on 10 July 2020 - 07:04 PM, said:

Worldwide, they have not disagreed about reopening spectator sports. The risks are not the same as reopening schools shops pubs and restaurants.

I don't know you dtp, though it would be nice to put that right come the day, but if you had an at risk close family member, would you be happy that your ideas on here would not jeopardise his/her safety more than if, say, you went to the pictures?

Bobby Darling, on 10 July 2020 - 10:38 PM, said:

Whether it's the wrong forum or not, do you actually believe that every single scientist has exactly the same opinion?

dtp, on 11 July 2020 - 08:18 AM, said:

They all agree that Covid-19 is a vile killer!

dim view, on 11 July 2020 - 08:01 AM, said:

If I had a "at risk close family member" then obviously I would base my decision on attendance on how safe I would judge that very attendance. In fact, I am more wary about attending indoor events than those outdoor anyway.

However, every individual has to make their own choice based on their own circumstances and concerns, but any ideas for allowing spectators at a sporting event are based on people attending if they think it is safe to do so having considered all the circumstances. Attendance will not be compulsory.

And round and round and round we go.

To the point of seeing the same old denials and cop-outs and piety so often seen before.

'Scientists can't agree'?

Well most do. And they agree Covid's still a killer, still amongst us and large crowds will still be crazy.

'Families can sit together'?

Well no they can't. Because no football club can guarantee who's in a so-called 'bubble' or not. Who's exchanging tickets or not. Infact weren't we lectured about certain sections of society being somehow immoral only a week or two ago? How some need 'educating'? Yet suddenly everyone's word should be accepted at face value.

'We can increase the capacity'?

Okay, yeah. But whichever way we twist it there'll still be a lottery for tickets, still be increased pressures on the office and IT, still be increased staff costs, still be increased queueing in and out, and still be folk sat beer free in unfamiliar seats amidst unfamiliar company. Despite a suspicion some think their loyalty or season ticket or being part of an 'in crowd' means they can carry on as before.

'If...maybe...possibly...perhaps...hopefully...'

All of which can be applied to a vaccine. Or a world class test, trace and track system (© Bozo the Liar). Or a proven treatment. The only real prospects of a return to normal.

Nah, way I see it this is all or nothing. Either matchdays will return or they won't. Even if that means the very future of football as we knew it being at risk.

I get that those of us already weened off Sat'di's with Town may have a different perspective. However compared to the loss suffered by sixty-plus thousand families - including at least some of CFC supporters - a lost season or two seems irrelevent...

This post has been edited by The Earl of Chesterfield: 11 July 2020 - 03:36 PM

It wouldn't be a football club's responsibility to offer any more than guidance and an explanation regarding who can sit together or not.

No more than it would be the job of the bar maid at the Spotted Frog or Crown and Cushion to check who are family members or not when sat inside the boozer.

There has to be personal responsibility.

dim view, on 11 July 2020 - 08:01 AM, said:

Of course the risks are different in different settings. I do, however, take issue with you putting schools in the same category as pubs and restaurants; schools can't make a whole class line up outside in a socially distanced queue and just allow a few in at a time, deal with them , then let some more in. It will be totally different in schools where the whole class, numbering 30+ usually, is expected to cram into one classroom with pupils virtually touching each other, and adults working with them with no PPE. Considering the fact that some scientists are now telling us that children are often asymptomatic carriers, and that everyone will be indoors in a confined space, I would say that adults working in schools with full attendance will be in a far more dangerous situation than individuals in pubs, restaurants or football grounds.

Said it all along....until it is so scientifically safe to go to a football Match where thousands are grouped in one place....matches are played behind closed doors & in order to manage an income stream it’s a televised subscription fee to watch the games in the safety of your home.
......watch this space

Waller is my hero, on 11 July 2020 - 05:39 PM, said:

The new season will not start behind closed doors.

plannerj, on 11 July 2020 - 08:26 AM, said:

Yes, they and all of us agree on that.

But, there have been disagreements on how to control it's spread including on social distancing and the wearing of masks for instance along with changing their minds as they have learned more about it.