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Planned European Friendly.

#61 User is offline   Ernie Ernie Ernie 

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 08:47 PM

View PostStockholm Spireite, on 20 May 2016 - 08:12 PM, said:

Sorry for breaking up your paragraph into separate points.

1 - PlannerJ nails it when saying "an experience that can't be done here"...unless you count the dry slope in Sheffield (is that still going, by the way?)

I also endorse that, given my Mrs is a teacher at a school here in Stockholm. I got to accompany her and a group as an AOTT (adult other than teacher) on her school trip (I had a week off and I'm CRB checked, and all that) to Tärnaby; 900km north of Stockholm, and home of Ingemar Stenmark - google him to find out just how good he was! I'm the novice skier with some of the group on the baby slopes, and let me tell you, that place is stunning! We also got to race snow mobiles, go cross-country ski-ing, go ice fishing, make igloos and camp outside in them, and a hike in the mountains with snow shoes. Exhilarating every day, sir.

2 - Yeah, that's just the 3 schools you've been involved with. Hardly a representation of all schools, is it? And also hardly a representation of schools in any given location. More a reflection of those travelling with the trip...

3 - A bit like the corporate jollies that masquerade as team-building exercises or golf days that are deemed necessary to butter up a potential client?

4 - You can thank your current Prime Minister for that. When he first came to power, he and the coalition cut the education budget by 33%, which put pressure on schools to reduce their own budgets very quickly. Easiest way? Offload long-serving and experienced teachers and replace them with newly-qualified (40% cheaper), allow "cover supervisors" to teach full-time. Also allow non-qualified staff to teach. Think about that - you wouldn't accept arriving at A&E to be met by someone who once administered a plaster and calling themselves a triage nurse, would you? But the equivalent has been allowed to happen in schools...

The trade-off is: those most capable of mentoring the new staff have been put out to pasture, because they're only seen as expensive commodities, not as assets to a school; those with a few years of experience that aren't yet ready for middle management are leaving the profession due to being told their job is now in jeopardy as the results make for dire reading whilst they're in charge, i.e. they're under-performing; nobody wants to come into the profession as they see what is happening and want no part of it. Then you're left with the inexperienced and unqualified - a recipe for disaster...

And there, the seeds for under-funding, to then name as under-performing, to then close and re-open as an Academy, were laid. There's an incredible parallel between this and what's happening with the NHS, right? You say it's failing, you privatise as much as you can by giving contracts to you friends who are party donors, and then saturate the media with how badly run things were before, and we're the saviours all along. That's your government, right there...

20 years ago, there was a shortage in the profession. The previous government offered bursaries to BSc graduates if they wanted to train on the PGCE program for a year. 5 years later, there's a only a shortage in the core subjects of English, Maths and Science. They were offered a 'golden hello' of jumping a point or two on the main pay scale compared to other new entrants to the profession in other subjects. 3 years after that, and there's a short surplus of teachers, which is actually a good thing. Apparently, it's gone downhill rapidly since "Call me Dave" came to power.

What's your solution - or is it just a whine?

DISCLAIMER - teaching is in the family. Father for 26 years, brother for 20 and counting, in-laws still do and a then a few family friends. The views in point 4 belong to my brother - an outstanding practitioner (Ofsted agree with me as well), who still does things the right way and makes decisions for his school based on it moving forward and what's best for his students.


I don't know what the solution is. Standards have to increase in teachers, discipline has to increase with kids. Folk won't teach at the senior level cos the kids can get away with a lot more than we would have with little consequence. Too may do gooders in this country wanting equal opportunities for people who don't deserve to be treated equally. The country has gone to the dogs, with rules on rules with a politically correct culture. Sometimes you've just got to get the rat on the table and say it as it is. Sort out the free loading and fund important stuff that needs funding e.g. education, health, housing, employment, councils
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#62 User is offline   Happ Hazzard 

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 09:07 PM

As far as teaching goes, it'll go the same way as housing with private being the norm and the state system only for those who can't afford private. This country is going to the dogs, doesn't matter who's in charge, Tories or Labour.
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#63 User is offline   Somerset Spireite 

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 09:17 PM

View PostStockholm Spireite, on 20 May 2016 - 08:12 PM, said:

Sorry for breaking up your paragraph into separate points.

1 - PlannerJ nails it when saying "an experience that can't be done here"...unless you count the dry slope in Sheffield (is that still going, by the way?)

I also endorse that, given my Mrs is a teacher at a school here in Stockholm. I got to accompany her and a group as an AOTT (adult other than teacher) on her school trip (I had a week off and I'm CRB checked, and all that) to Tärnaby; 900km north of Stockholm, and home of Ingemar Stenmark - google him to find out just how good he was! I'm the novice skier with some of the group on the baby slopes, and let me tell you, that place is stunning! We also got to race snow mobiles, go cross-country ski-ing, go ice fishing, make igloos and camp outside in them, and a hike in the mountains with snow shoes. Exhilarating every day, sir.

2 - Yeah, that's just the 3 schools you've been involved with. Hardly a representation of all schools, is it? And also hardly a representation of schools in any given location. More a reflection of those travelling with the trip...

3 - A bit like the corporate jollies that masquerade as team-building exercises or golf days that are deemed necessary to butter up a potential client?

4 - You can thank your current Prime Minister for that. When he first came to power, he and the coalition cut the education budget by 33%, which put pressure on schools to reduce their own budgets very quickly. Easiest way? Offload long-serving and experienced teachers and replace them with newly-qualified (40% cheaper), allow "cover supervisors" to teach full-time. Also allow non-qualified staff to teach. Think about that - you wouldn't accept arriving at A&E to be met by someone who once administered a plaster and calling themselves a triage nurse, would you? But the equivalent has been allowed to happen in schools...

The trade-off is: those most capable of mentoring the new staff have been put out to pasture, because they're only seen as expensive commodities, not as assets to a school; those with a few years of experience that aren't yet ready for middle management are leaving the profession due to being told their job is now in jeopardy as the results make for dire reading whilst they're in charge, i.e. they're under-performing; nobody wants to come into the profession as they see what is happening and want no part of it. Then you're left with the inexperienced and unqualified - a recipe for disaster...

And there, the seeds for under-funding, to then name as under-performing, to then close and re-open as an Academy, were laid. There's an incredible parallel between this and what's happening with the NHS, right? You say it's failing, you privatise as much as you can by giving contracts to you friends who are party donors, and then saturate the media with how badly run things were before, and we're the saviours all along. That's your government, right there...

20 years ago, there was a shortage in the profession. The previous government offered bursaries to BSc graduates if they wanted to train on the PGCE program for a year. 5 years later, there's a only a shortage in the core subjects of English, Maths and Science. They were offered a 'golden hello' of jumping a point or two on the main pay scale compared to other new entrants to the profession in other subjects. 3 years after that, and there's a short surplus of teachers, which is actually a good thing. Apparently, it's gone downhill rapidly since "Call me Dave" came to power.

What's your solution - or is it just a whine?

DISCLAIMER - teaching is in the family. Father for 26 years, brother for 20 and counting, in-laws still do and a then a few family friends. The views in point 4 belong to my brother - an outstanding practitioner (Ofsted agree with me as well), who still does things the right way and makes decisions for his school based on it moving forward and what's best for his students.

Ingemar Stenmark - there's a name I've not heard in a while. The bloke was a genius. I always loved how he left himself so much to do on the second run and then virtually threw himself down the slope, seemingly able to win by sheer will-power alone.
Riding the blue & white roller-coaster since 1989
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#64 User is offline   Jud 

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 10:10 PM

View PostErnie Ernie Ernie, on 20 May 2016 - 08:47 PM, said:

I don't know what the solution is. Standards have to increase in teachers, discipline has to increase with kids. Folk won't teach at the senior level cos the kids can get away with a lot more than we would have with little consequence. Too may do gooders in this country wanting equal opportunities for people who don't deserve to be treated equally. The country has gone to the dogs, with rules on rules with a politically correct culture. Sometimes you've just got to get the rat on the table and say it as it is. Sort out the free loading and fund important stuff that needs funding e.g. education, health, housing, employment, councils

I hate do gooders and the good they do (seriously, way to dodge the narrow-minded bullet).
As for the dry ski slope in Sheffield for whoever it was that mentioned it, it's a derelict wasteland in afraid. It's regularly on fire too, which is impressive seeing as there's nothing up there to burn any more.
"Tha'd have known if l'd got hold o' thee...."
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#65 User is offline   plannerj 

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Posted 20 May 2016 - 11:13 PM

View PostErnie Ernie Ernie, on 20 May 2016 - 08:06 AM, said:

Oh I will admit it's a very narrow minded view shared it would seem by a few others. Yes I have done the hills and if it is good, but kids who can't ski being on the baby slopes, I'm not so sure it's exhilarating. My view is more narrow minded than you think tbf as all the overseas trips I have been involved with always seems to involve some kind of relationship between teachers involved. Again perhaps it's just the 3 schools I've been involved with. I'm also very cynical towards inset and training days which always happen to be on a Friday or Monday and usually following a holiday. I live within a few hundred yards of 2 schools snd the car parks are empty after about 12 on said days. Yes you are right my opinion of teachers is low and I think the standard of teachers nowadays is appalling. It appears from the outside that a lot of young teachers I come into contact with through having children of my own and the through my professional role lack more than basic intelligence and I despair at how they have entered the role.

You are one up on me in that I don't come into contact with teachers anymore. One thing I can say for sure, however, is that all the kids I come across (and as a grandfather, I meet quite a few), are amazingly more intelligent than I was at comparative ages. Not all of that is necessarily down to their schooling but I suspect that a fair proportion is. Some teachers must be getting it right!
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#66 User is offline   Ernie Ernie Ernie 

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 06:54 AM

View Postplannerj, on 20 May 2016 - 11:13 PM, said:

You are one up on me in that I don't come into contact with teachers anymore. One thing I can say for sure, however, is that all the kids I come across (and as a grandfather, I meet quite a few), are amazingly more intelligent than I was at comparative ages. Not all of that is necessarily down to their schooling but I suspect that a fair proportion is. Some teachers must be getting it right!


There is no way the lower end of the scale are more intelligent than years ago and unfortunately it's that end I come across on a daily basis. Kids fall through the net that have challenging behaviours and too much effort is placed on diversionary activities as opposed to education of the basics.
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#67 User is offline   plannerj 

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 07:03 AM

View PostErnie Ernie Ernie, on 21 May 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

There is no way the lower end of the scale are more intelligent than years ago and unfortunately it's that end I come across on a daily basis. Kids fall through the net that have challenging behaviours and too much effort is placed on diversionary activities as opposed to education of the basics.


Ok let's live in a country where our kids education is dictated to by the lowest common denominator. It'l be great!

This post has been edited by plannerj: 21 May 2016 - 07:06 AM

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#68 User is offline   BozaSpireite 

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 08:36 AM

Anybody heard where the friendly is yet ?
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#69 User is offline   Benno Spire 

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 09:01 AM

View PostBozaSpireite, on 21 May 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

Anybody heard where the friendly is yet ?

Yes but sworn to secrecy, no idea why the secrecy
A clue is its one of the country's playing in the Euros but not one that's been mentioned on this thread
Have passport will travel
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#70 User is offline   CFC91 

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 09:58 AM

View PostBenno Spire, on 21 May 2016 - 09:01 AM, said:

Yes but sworn to secrecy, no idea why the secrecy
A clue is its one of the country's playing in the Euros but not one that's been mentioned on this thread

I'd actually quite like to do this as would a few of my mates. Not sure why the secrecy either but if you could drop me a big hint so we can have a proper look I'd be rather grateful
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#71 User is offline   Benno Spire 

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 10:07 AM

It maybe secret until enough sponsors Agee to fund the trip
Have passport will travel
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#72 User is offline   brockwell-spireite 

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 10:24 AM

View PostBenno Spire, on 21 May 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

It maybe secret until enough sponsors Agee to fund the trip


Oxford Utd are going to Spain... The club tweeted a guide for their fans who wish to follow them on tour!
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#73 User is offline   Mr Mercury 

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 10:26 AM

View PostBenno Spire, on 21 May 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

It maybe secret until enough sponsors Agee to fund the trip

Couldn't we ask that far eastern sportswear company who's sponsoring the DC to help, mind you that might upset Puma!
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#74 User is offline   Ernie Ernie Ernie 

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 01:23 PM

View Postplannerj, on 21 May 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

Ok let's live in a country where our kids education is dictated to by the lowest common denominator. It'l be great!



Which is what i said where exactly?
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#75 User is offline   shaun1866 

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 03:18 PM

View PostBenno Spire, on 21 May 2016 - 09:01 AM, said:

Yes but sworn to secrecy, no idea why the secrecy
A clue is its one of the country's playing in the Euros but not one that's been mentioned on this thread


Slovakia ?
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#76 User is offline   LuSiVe 

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 03:32 PM

Please let it be Iceland :)
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#77 User is offline   Spireite-Karl 

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 03:33 PM

Wales :glare:
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#78 User is offline   BlueDay 

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 03:34 PM

View PostStockholm Spireite, on 18 May 2016 - 07:40 PM, said:

Matlock, Buxton and Staveley MW


Printing the tour t-shirts now.
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#79 User is offline   Ernie Ernie Ernie 

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 03:55 PM

View PostLuSiVe, on 21 May 2016 - 03:32 PM, said:

Please let it be Iceland :)



Not true. We make plenty of cash we just spunk it away
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#80 User is offline   Johnnyspireite7 

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Posted 21 May 2016 - 04:25 PM

View PostLuSiVe, on 21 May 2016 - 03:32 PM, said:

Please let it be Iceland :)

Knowing our luck it'd be the staff from the shop across the road!!!! :windup

This post has been edited by Johnnyspireite7: 21 May 2016 - 04:25 PM

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