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I have a ST and would expect to miss 1 game a season, possibly 2 and quite exceptionally 3. It depends on how the opening games of the season fall when we would expect to be away. Forget the rest of what I was going to say, so this probably becomes the least valuable post of the day.
The Quest For 7000. Will we reach the promised land?
#122
Nitrous Oxide 
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Posted 24 March 2015 - 07:19 AM
On Radio Deedah this morning that the Millers are considering increasing their capacity to 20k. I think I heard that right. That 's confidence and a chairman with a big pocket. We might not like it but we are slipping even further behind. There's no guarantee they'll stay up but it would seem Tony Stewart is intent on pushing on. Makes our quest for 7000 look a bit thin.
We need to really make an effort over the rest of the season.
We need to really make an effort over the rest of the season.
#123
Xerxes
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Posted 24 March 2015 - 07:54 AM
Nitrous Oxide, on 24 March 2015 - 07:19 AM, said:
On Radio Deedah this morning that the Millers are considering increasing their capacity to 20k. I think I heard that right. That 's confidence and a chairman with a big pocket. We might not like it but we are slipping even further behind. There's no guarantee they'll stay up but it would seem Tony Stewart is intent on pushing on. Makes our quest for 7000 look a bit thin.
We need to really make an effort over the rest of the season.
We need to really make an effort over the rest of the season.
I wonder how they intend paying for it as they haven't paid a penny for the ground as yet, apart from the grants they received. They still owe their local council 15m and will not be able to go to them to ask for more money. It's all pie in the sky.
We could come out and say similar and it would be equally meaningless. Rotherham will be back in the lower divisions with average gates similar to, or below ours, if not next season certainly the season after. Their financial model is unsustainable and it is bound to end in tears again. I trust our club's ambitions are more realistic.
#124
Westbars Spireite
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Posted 24 March 2015 - 07:55 AM
We don't need to measure ourselves against a club spending way beyond their means.
#125
JonB
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Posted 24 March 2015 - 08:24 AM
Nitrous Oxide, on 24 March 2015 - 07:19 AM, said:
On Radio Deedah this morning that the Millers are considering increasing their capacity to 20k. I think I heard that right. That 's confidence and a chairman with a big pocket. We might not like it but we are slipping even further behind. There's no guarantee they'll stay up but it would seem Tony Stewart is intent on pushing on. Makes our quest for 7000 look a bit thin.
We need to really make an effort over the rest of the season.
We need to really make an effort over the rest of the season.
I thought still comparing us to the likes of Bournemouth and Brentford are bad who are getting bankrolled but its even worse comparing us to a club throwing money at things on the back of twice going belly up and appearing to have not learnt from it. They've still got to pay for what they have already before they start thinking about going bigger and isnt the ground pretty cramped and steep stands already...going bigger is not going to be cheap and that easy.
#126
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Posted 24 March 2015 - 08:48 AM
dim view, on 23 March 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:
heyup.
I can't think of a single reason why it would be worth paying somebody to do that. If they did, and discovered a definite trend, what actions are possible?.
The quality data is the names and addresses of people who attend a lot of matches but don't have ST's. They are targets. I doubt though whether there is enough payroll cash for a quality collator/analyser/marketing bod. Perhaps students could do it for them. We used to have a super CFSS address database. That needs collating with the Supporters Club database, the Shareholder database, the ST Holder database, and the non ST regular attender database from the online sales to give us some proper marketing ammo.
I can't think of a single reason why it would be worth paying somebody to do that. If they did, and discovered a definite trend, what actions are possible?.
The quality data is the names and addresses of people who attend a lot of matches but don't have ST's. They are targets. I doubt though whether there is enough payroll cash for a quality collator/analyser/marketing bod. Perhaps students could do it for them. We used to have a super CFSS address database. That needs collating with the Supporters Club database, the Shareholder database, the ST Holder database, and the non ST regular attender database from the online sales to give us some proper marketing ammo.
Marcia said that 10% of ST holders are missing from every match. From the outside looking in, that appears to be considerable given that we've had a decent season. Given the Club's position, I would want to know how that compares with previous seasons, how it compares to other clubs at our level and most importantly, the reasons for not attending games. If we start to identify those reasons and understand the behaviour of our ST holders, we might just stand a chance of introducing measures to ensure that ST sales are less volatile in the future.
As for someone to extract and analyse data, you are preaching to the converted. If you don't measure, you can't manage.
This post has been edited by freelander2: 24 March 2015 - 08:48 AM
#127
DIFH
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Posted 24 March 2015 - 09:54 AM
dim view, on 23 March 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:
heyup.
I can't think of a single reason why it would be worth paying somebody to do that. If they did, and discovered a definite trend, what actions are possible?.
The quality data is the names and addresses of people who attend a lot of matches but don't have ST's. They are targets. I doubt though whether there is enough payroll cash for a quality collator/analyser/marketing bod. Perhaps students could do it for them. We used to have a super CFSS address database. That needs collating with the Supporters Club database, the Shareholder database, the ST Holder database, and the non ST regular attender database from the online sales to give us some proper marketing ammo.
I can't think of a single reason why it would be worth paying somebody to do that. If they did, and discovered a definite trend, what actions are possible?.
The quality data is the names and addresses of people who attend a lot of matches but don't have ST's. They are targets. I doubt though whether there is enough payroll cash for a quality collator/analyser/marketing bod. Perhaps students could do it for them. We used to have a super CFSS address database. That needs collating with the Supporters Club database, the Shareholder database, the ST Holder database, and the non ST regular attender database from the online sales to give us some proper marketing ammo.
I buy my 92 yr old mum a ST but she doesn't attend evening games or if she finds it too cold she stays in doors. The midweek games for kids is a game too far for some. Then there are holidays mainly affecting the early season games. Add to that shift work, family illness and just general stuff that affects you occasionally attending then you have a good spectre of the missing attendees.
After all 10% is about 400 seats.
God I hate this league.
#128
BlueDay
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Posted 24 March 2015 - 10:38 AM
Dave In Footie Heaven, on 24 March 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:
I buy my 92 yr old mum a ST but she doesn't attend evening games or if she finds it too cold she stays in doors. The midweek games for kids is a game too far for some. Then there are holidays mainly affecting the early season games. Add to that shift work, family illness and just general stuff that affects you occasionally attending then you have a good spectre of the missing attendees.
After all 10% is about 400 seats.
After all 10% is about 400 seats.
That's a good analysis.
#129
brianclose
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Posted 24 March 2015 - 10:47 AM
freelander2, on 24 March 2015 - 08:48 AM, said:
Marcia said that 10% of ST holders are missing from every match. From the outside looking in, that appears to be considerable given that we've had a decent season. Given the Club's position, I would want to know how that compares with previous seasons, how it compares to other clubs at our level and most importantly, the reasons for not attending games. If we start to identify those reasons and understand the behaviour of our ST holders, we might just stand a chance of introducing measures to ensure that ST sales are less volatile in the future.
As for someone to extract and analyse data, you are preaching to the converted. If you don't measure, you can't manage.
As for someone to extract and analyse data, you are preaching to the converted. If you don't measure, you can't manage.
but only equates to the average fan missing 2 games, which I would have thought most fans do throughout the season (and kids a lot more).
This post has been edited by brianclose: 24 March 2015 - 10:48 AM
#130
calvin plummers socks
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Posted 24 March 2015 - 11:14 AM
Until this year I had a season ticket for about 12-15 years and probably went to about 5 home games a season on average (more in both Championship winning years).
Living down South and often working Sat meant couldn't always make games but I liked to help the club financially a little bit. Also was a safeguard if we ever had a big game for tickets.
Living down South and often working Sat meant couldn't always make games but I liked to help the club financially a little bit. Also was a safeguard if we ever had a big game for tickets.
#133
spireitetoo
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Posted 24 March 2015 - 05:18 PM
Nitrous Oxide, on 24 March 2015 - 07:19 AM, said:
On Radio Deedah this morning that the Millers are considering increasing their capacity to 20k. I think I heard that right. That 's confidence and a chairman with a big pocket. We might not like it but we are slipping even further behind. There's no guarantee they'll stay up but it would seem Tony Stewart is intent on pushing on. Makes our quest for 7000 look a bit thin.
We need to really make an effort over the rest of the season.
We need to really make an effort over the rest of the season.
just where do they plan on putting an extra 8000 or so seats....its already as steep as ben nevis.....and doesn't really have room around it to expand .....i got vertigo when we last visited ..if it goes up again I'll need an oxygen mask.
all we are saying, is give us ...a goal, or 2+
#134
whittman
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Posted 24 March 2015 - 05:50 PM
spireitetoo, on 24 March 2015 - 05:18 PM, said:
just where do they plan on putting an extra 8000 or so seats....its already as steep as ben nevis.....and doesn't really have room around it to expand .....i got vertigo when we last visited ..if it goes up again I'll need an oxygen mask.
Its okay they must be building it in the tardis
Its all wind like their manager
#135
Rodney's Moustache
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Posted 24 March 2015 - 11:47 PM
Xerxes, on 24 March 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:
I wonder how they intend paying for it as they haven't paid a penny for the ground as yet, apart from the grants they received. They still owe their local council 15m and will not be able to go to them to ask for more money. It's all pie in the sky.
We could come out and say similar and it would be equally meaningless. Rotherham will be back in the lower divisions with average gates similar to, or below ours, if not next season certainly the season after. Their financial model is unsustain.able and it is bound to end in tears again. I trust our club's ambitions are more realistic.
We could come out and say similar and it would be equally meaningless. Rotherham will be back in the lower divisions with average gates similar to, or below ours, if not next season certainly the season after. Their financial model is unsustain.able and it is bound to end in tears again. I trust our club's ambitions are more realistic.
They owe the local council 5 million as a loan towards the build as opposed to our 1 million yet to be paid back.The rest of the funding is in the form of a 3 million loan from Tony Stewart and a mortgage from Barclays bank which I presume they've started paying back. The land is on a 250 year lease from the council.
#136
Beelzebub
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Posted 25 March 2015 - 06:44 AM
Rodney, on 24 March 2015 - 11:47 PM, said:
They owe the local council 5 million as a loan towards the build as opposed to our 1 million yet to be paid back.The rest of the funding is in the form of a 3 million loan from Tony Stewart and a mortgage from Barclays bank which I presume they've started paying back. The land is on a 250 year lease from the council.
Where did you get the figure of five million owed to the council from? Every report I've previously seen has it as fifteen. If you're right it could mean they took oout the mortgage to part pay the council loan. The total indebtedness still remains at well over twice ours and the ground is not owned by the football club. When they moved in they said they had arranged a moratorium on debt repayments for three years to allow them to settle in; that period is now up.
I wouldn't want to be in their financial position, even if they stay up theh will have massive difficulties servicing the debt and if they go down they gave absolutely no chance. Financial fair play rules stop their chairman pumping unlimited amounts in, not that he has them, and their income and expenditure means that they are doomed to drop down the divisions again with another spell in admin beckoning. Good.
#137
Rodney's Moustache
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Posted 25 March 2015 - 07:58 AM
Beelzebub, on 25 March 2015 - 06:44 AM, said:
Where did you get the figure of five million owed to the council from? Every report I've previously seen has it as fifteen. If you're right it could mean they took oout the mortgage to part pay the council loan. The total indebtedness still remains at well over twice ours and the ground is not owned by the football club. When they moved in they said they had arranged a moratorium on debt repayments for three years to allow them to settle in; that period is now up.
I wouldn't want to be in their financial position, even if they stay up theh will have massive difficulties servicing the debt and if they go down they gave absolutely no chance. Financial fair play rules stop their chairman pumping unlimited amounts in, not that he has them, and their income and expenditure means that they are doomed to drop down the divisions again with another spell in admin beckoning. Good.
I wouldn't want to be in their financial position, even if they stay up theh will have massive difficulties servicing the debt and if they go down they gave absolutely no chance. Financial fair play rules stop their chairman pumping unlimited amounts in, not that he has them, and their income and expenditure means that they are doomed to drop down the divisions again with another spell in admin beckoning. Good.
Just did a bit of research to check out the facts.I agree with you regarding the unsustainable business model and I'm still hoping Wigan can mount a comeback and send them back down.Nothing would please me more.
http://www.rothbiz.c...-rotherham.html
#138
DIFH
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Posted 25 March 2015 - 10:41 AM
Beelzebub, on 25 March 2015 - 06:44 AM, said:
Where did you get the figure of five million owed to the council from? Every report I've previously seen has it as fifteen. If you're right it could mean they took oout the mortgage to part pay the council loan. The total indebtedness still remains at well over twice ours and the ground is not owned by the football club. When they moved in they said they had arranged a moratorium on debt repayments for three years to allow them to settle in; that period is now up.
I wouldn't want to be in their financial position, even if they stay up theh will have massive difficulties servicing the debt and if they go down they gave absolutely no chance. Financial fair play rules stop their chairman pumping unlimited amounts in, not that he has them, and their income and expenditure means that they are doomed to drop down the divisions again with another spell in admin beckoning. Good.
I wouldn't want to be in their financial position, even if they stay up theh will have massive difficulties servicing the debt and if they go down they gave absolutely no chance. Financial fair play rules stop their chairman pumping unlimited amounts in, not that he has them, and their income and expenditure means that they are doomed to drop down the divisions again with another spell in admin beckoning. Good.
There is more than Tony Stewart (Money men) I'ts a gang of 3 there.
God I hate this league.
#139 Guest_NOKIN_*
Posted 25 March 2015 - 11:27 AM
Beelzebub, on 25 March 2015 - 06:44 AM, said:
Where did you get the figure of five million owed to the council from? Every report I've previously seen has it as fifteen. If you're right it could mean they took oout the mortgage to part pay the council loan. The total indebtedness still remains at well over twice ours and the ground is not owned by the football club. When they moved in they said they had arranged a moratorium on debt repayments for three years to allow them to settle in; that period is now up.
I wouldn't want to be in their financial position, even if they stay up theh will have massive difficulties servicing the debt and if they go down they gave absolutely no chance. Financial fair play rules stop their chairman pumping unlimited amounts in, not that he has them, and their income and expenditure means that they are doomed to drop down the divisions again with another spell in admin beckoning. Good.
I wouldn't want to be in their financial position, even if they stay up theh will have massive difficulties servicing the debt and if they go down they gave absolutely no chance. Financial fair play rules stop their chairman pumping unlimited amounts in, not that he has them, and their income and expenditure means that they are doomed to drop down the divisions again with another spell in admin beckoning. Good.
Although I have no love for Rotherham Utd at all, I can't help but have feelings of dread when I hear clubs go into administration be it them or any other club. Football clubs, generally, survive administration one way or another as Rotherham have proved time and time again but its the real people who suffer, people working at the club lose their jobs, contractors don't get paid and again, people lose their jobs if not their livelihood. Irrespective of which football team it is, I can't personally see administration as a good positive thing. Footballers, chairmen, directors, managers, coaching staff even fans et al can and do start all over again leaving behind them a likely trail of financial destruction.
Surely that's not a good thing?
#140
BlueDay
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Posted 25 March 2015 - 12:01 PM
NOKIN, on 25 March 2015 - 11:27 AM, said:
Although I have no love for Rotherham Utd at all, I can't help but have feelings of dread when I hear clubs go into administration be it them or any other club. Football clubs, generally, survive administration one way or another as Rotherham have proved time and time again but its the real people who suffer, people working at the club lose their jobs, contractors don't get paid and again, people lose their jobs if not their livelihood. Irrespective of which football team it is, I can't personally see administration as a good positive thing. Footballers, chairmen, directors, managers, coaching staff even fans et al can and do start all over again leaving behind them a likely trail of financial destruction.
Surely that's not a good thing?
Surely that's not a good thing?
Agreed entirely, hence a green 'un from me.
Putting rivalry aside then I think that the Rotherham situation is interesting to us at many levels:
(i) Their business is unsustainable and there is a certain inevitably that it will probably end tears
(ii) Their fans are in seeming denial
(iii) For a club that had points deducted on was it 2 or possibly 3 occasions only a few seasons ago, then this is even more remarkable
(iv) Balance this with matters at the Proact, which although not always perfect and occasionally alarming, then the ship is generally moving in the right direction
and will not go belly up anytime soon.
(v) Indeed iron out the flaws both on and off the field and the Spireites could enjoy a period of sustained "relative success", which in all honesty has already started!
